Paris-Roubaix - set up and kit

jordan_217

Me and a mate have just entered the '15 Paris-Roubaix sportive. We've signed up for the 170km route and are already quite excited

I've never ridden over prolonged cobbled sections and being a classics fan I know that my body and my bike are going to take a pounding. For those that have experience of riding over the fabled Pavé what tips and advice can you give on bike set up and equipment choice, please?

I have a choice of riding it on either my Ti Enigma or my Ribble 525. The Ribble is limited to 25mm tyres and at a push, I could try 28mm's on the Enigma. Being a Conti fan I was thinking of either 25mm or 28mm Gatorskins. In terms of wheels I have some handbuilt Kinlin XC-279's on Miche hubs (20/24) that I'd rather not trash BUT I should be able to have repaired. I also have a set of Shimano RS11's that I don't mind trashing but they have a lower spoke count than the Kinlins and dont seem as solid. What would work best?

In terms of bike set up I was going to double wrap my favored bar tape, use my alloy bottle cages and bend them to be as tight as possible around the bottles and also give every nut and bolt a check beforehand. Any need to fit a chain catcher? As for pedals - I don't currently own MTB/touring pedals and shoes, any reason why doing it in road shoes should be avoided?

Rest assured I'm not looking at excuses to buy kit for the sake of it (barring the tyres and possibly a chain catcher) I'm just trying to mitigate the chances of poor kit choice and/or set-up ruining my day.

Thanks in advance for any advice

ugo.santalucia

Gatorskin are among the worst tyres you can use... they are not very elastic, so they are slow and they have virtually zero grip in the wet.
Some road tyres I liked very much on the cobbles include Vittoria Pave' and Vittoria CX, interestingly the latter is much better than the former if the cobbles are dry.

Personally I wouldn't worry about punctures, you might not suffer any... but you will have to ride 55 Km of pave', so best to fit a tyre that rides well on the stones. Carry a can of Vittoria Pit Stop if you can't be bothered to fix a puncture, it generally works even for butyl inner tubes.

Set the pressure according to the weather... you want as much grip as you can if the cobbles are wet... if they are not there is no need to go too low and risk pinching the tube

markhewitt1978

jordan_217 wrote:

As for pedals - I don't currently own MTB/touring pedals and shoes, any reason why doing it in road shoes should be avoided?

The only reason I can think of is if you need to stop or if you come off, trying to walk on possibly wet cobbles with road shoes isn't going to be ideal. But you should have little trouble with MTB shoes. MTB pedals can be had for less than £20 but the shoes will be more like £40-50.

If your choice of frame is based on the clearance I'd go for whichever one takes the biggest tyres, 28mm is what the pro's are using these days I think?

ugo.santalucia

I don't see the need for a special set of pedals just for Roubaix, to be honest... use what you've got... don't over think it.

People do all sorts of things for alleged comfort which make no difference at all on the day... a few examples: padded saddles, padded bar tape, extra gel under the bar tape, carbon bars, carbon stems, carbon seatposts.
I have gone the extra padding route and to be honest it makes no difference.

Things seen on TV and to avoid at all costs:

1) riding with no gloves a la Boonen... if you go down and scratch your hands, they will hurt so much that you won't be able to continue.

2) Riding with hands on the hoods: on the cobbles you have no feel in your hands, if you lose the grip you will not notice, next thing you know you will have your jaw on the tarmac... use the drops or the bar tops, always.

3) Mashing a big gear: best way to grind to a halt in my opinion. Start the first secteur with the small ring and a sprocket somewhere in the middle-small range and take it from there. Shifting sprockets is easy, shifting ring less so and might result in mechanical damage. Many secteurs are anything but flat.

markhewitt1978

ugo.santalucia wrote:

2) Riding with hands on the hoods: on the cobbles you have no feel in your hands, if you lose the grip you will not notice, next thing you know you will have your jaw on the tarmac... use the drops or the bar tops, always.
.

Interesting, would you apply that advice for the likes of bumpy cycle paths? There's one I generally ride and I've found myself riding on the tops instinctively.

greasedscotsman

It's easy to think you need this or that bit of kit for Roubaix. I reckon you'll be fine with what you have. Bigger tyres aren't a bad idea, but aren't essential. I rode this year on a Cervelo S3, with some 25 Michelin Pro 4s on Hope Open Pros without any problems.

And it's beyond me how anyone can tell the difference between one tyre and the next on cobblestones. If you ride something like the Carrefour de l'Arbre or Mons-en-Pévèle, it feels like you bike it about to collapse underneath you.

ugo.santalucia

markhewitt1978 wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

2) Riding with hands on the hoods: on the cobbles you have no feel in your hands, if you lose the grip you will not notice, next thing you know you will have your jaw on the tarmac... use the drops or the bar tops, always.
.

Interesting, would you apply that advice for the likes of bumpy cycle paths? There's one I generally ride and I've found myself riding on the tops instinctively.

Whenever you've got the feeling that you are losing control of your hands it's good practice not to be on the hoods, as your hands can slip without you even knowing. Cycle paths are generally not as bad, but if they are then yes, drops or tops are safer places to be

ugo.santalucia

greasedscotsman wrote:

And it's beyond me how anyone can tell the difference between one tyre and the next on cobblestones. If you ride something like the Carrefour de l'Arbre or Mons-en-Pévèle, it feels like you bike it about to collapse underneath you.

Mons En Pevele this year wasn't too bad, but two years ago it was horrible. On the contrary I found the Carrefour terrible last summer and not so bad two years ago.
With the Vittoria XN I could keep a svelte pace over the length of a secteur, while on the gatorskin 28 I was getting exhausted mid way and struggling towards the end... If anything I was fitter when I had the Conti, as it was one week ahead of the Raid Pyrenees and was in tip top shape. Last summer i had a few issues and got to the start with zero recent mileage in my legs. (had 20 days off the bike due to a minor surgery).
So in my experience getting the tyre right does matter. In terms of comfort not a lot, but in terms of speed (and its consequences) it does.
If that wasn't the case, there wouldn't be room for FMB in the market

greasedscotsman

ugo.santalucia wrote:

If that wasn't the case, there wouldn't be room for FMB in the market

There is plenty of kit in the market that there isn't really any need for.

ugo.santalucia

greasedscotsman wrote:

There is plenty of kit in the market that there isn't really any need for.

Yet both Boonen and Cancellara and virtually anyone who wants to win Paris-Roubaix choses to ride FMB tubulars. FMB is an artisan, I think it's a 3-4 men band and certainly doesn't have the money to pay riders to ride his tyres... I'm not even sure they get them for free...
Yet, they choose those over the tyres that the sponsor pay them to ride... and you say there is nothing to them...

I struggle to believe it obviously...

IME (2 Roubaix, 2 Retroronde and 1 Flanders) tyre choice matters on the cobbles and it matters even more if it's wet

greasedscotsman

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Yet both Boonen and Cancellara and virtually anyone who wants to win Paris-Roubaix choses to ride FMB tubulars. FMB is an artisan, I think it's a 3-4 men band and certainly doesn't have the money to pay riders to ride his tyres... I'm not even sure they get them for free...
Yet, they choose those over the tyres that the sponsor pay them to ride... and you say there is nothing to them...

I struggle to believe it obviously...

IME (2 Roubaix, 2 Retroronde and 1 Flanders) tyre choice matters on the cobbles and it matters even more if it's wet

Ahh, so the OP is Cancellara (or Boonen) then. Best get hold on some FMBs then.

ugo.santalucia

greasedscotsman wrote:

Ahh, so the OP is Cancellara (or Boonen) then...

What difference does it make? He asks for advice and your advice is use what you've got, because you are not Cancellara?

My advice is don't use the Gatorskin, there are better tyres for the job. If he takes time and money to travel to France for Paris-Roubaix, he might as well spend 50 quid on a set of decent tyres for the job. We are not all skint... by the look of the average thread on these pages there is money out there... he's got a Titanium Enigma, he might have 50 quid to spare

ddraver

In contrast I wouldnt over think it too much. Sure if your tyres are worn then get some new ones, but it's only 1 day so i wouldnt go too far.

I did RVV last year (hope to do P-R this year!) and basically used what i used most of the rest of the time. I would take the kit that you are most comfortable on on any normal 170km ride. As you say make sure you ve checked the bike over, including having the wheels checked, and make sure you take a few tubes.

For the ride i'd recommend practising holding the tops with a loose grip so the bars can move within your hands (if you MTB, you ll be very used to this). bear in mind that though if you ve not ridden proper cobbles before there is little you can do to practice. You just have to feel the pain for yourself!

greasedscotsman

ugo.santalucia wrote:

What difference does it make? He asks for advice and your advice is use what you've got, because you are not Cancellara?

My advice is don't use the Gatorskin, there are better tyres for the job. If he takes time and money to travel to France for Paris-Roubaix, he might as well spend 50 quid on a set of decent tyres for the job. We are not all skint... by the look of the average thread on these pages there is money out there... he's got a Titanium Enigma, he might have 50 quid to spare

Not really. I'm saying there isn't any need to get anything. His kit sounds fine to me, why buy more for just one ride. If he wants to, then fine, some wider tyres might help.

But I don't agree with you on tyres. I don't think you can tell the difference between different makes or models when riding over the cobblestones. I think Cancellara could, but I can't and don't think you could either.

Mind you, there is a fair bit of tarmac between the sections...

ugo.santalucia

ddraver wrote:

I did RVV last year (hope to do P-R this year!)

IME they are night and day. the cobbled roads in Belgium connect villages and towns and are well maintained... the PR cobbled secteurs are farm tracks for 360 or so days of the year. Cars don't use them. They are not maintained and every year they are different, depending on rainfall and tractor use when they are wet and boggy.

For Flanders virtually any setup will do and I've been content with 23 mm (in reality 22) tyres at 100 PSI... infact I was flying on those Corsas! Roubaix is different though, the slightest dampness make those cobbles terrifying. If you have to change the line to overtake it's always a gamble, as there isn't enough room for two clean lines.

I've always found the first half wet and because the paves are nowhere near flat, it's always been a pretty scary experience... I wouldn't underestimate the importance of a tyre that gives you that little bit extra in terms of speed and grip... they both pay dividends in getting you in one piece to the Velodrome

ugo.santalucia

greasedscotsman wrote:

But I don't agree with you on tyres. I don't think you can tell the difference between different makes or models when riding over the cobblestones. I think Cancellara could, but I can't and don't think you could either.

Let's agree to disagree... some people claim dramatic differences between deep section wheels and shallow ones, I don't see much at all. But I do notice when I am going at 25-30 Kph over the 3 Km or so of Mons En Pevele or when I am struggling to make it to 20 kph. It's not that one tyre is 30% faster, but if it gives me more confidence because it doesn't slip all over the place, I can go faster.
In the past I thought it was down to sheer volume, but it's not just volume... numb tyres like the Gatorskin don't adapt as well to the changing terrain and don't give you the same level of confidence. That I do notice

smoggysteve

I did Paris Roubaix this year on a Bianchi Via Nirone with Fulcrum 5 wheels using schwalbe one 25mm tyres at around 6.5 bar. The only real thing I did for the cobbles was drop my seat about a cm. The weird thing with the cobbles is the faster you go the less you notice them. If you can cruise at around 30km on the flat you can be reasonably comfortable. You aint racing so sitting in your comfort zone and if you stick to your refuelling you will be fine. I managed it on an alu bike with nothing special done to it. Too much overthinking here. Pros used to ride this on heavy steel frames with micro thin tyres and leather chamois pads ffs. You can kill yourself if you want to set a fantastic time but to finish it is a triumph in itself.

Use chamois cream mind for obvious reasons.

jordan_217

Thanks for the advice folks.

Like I said in my OP, I'm not looking at spending on kit just for the sake of it. I agree wholeheartedly that it's only one ride and TBH I'd rather not spend on kit I don't need. I am just trying to mitigate the chance of spoiling the w'end by not at least considering what (if any) changes I need to make to my usual set up.

As I'm going to take my Enigma and 23mm Michelin PSC are my choice of tyres for that bike, I think I will order some 25mm's PSC Endrurnce tyres and stop thinking too hard about it. I can get a pair for £42 so I'm happy with that.

griffsters

I agree that this tends to be overthought. I did it this year and was busy buying all manner of stuff just to make it round -didnt need to. I ended up using my best bike with a few sensible precautions.

- Hope Open pro rims with 25mm Conti 4 Seasons. Decent spoke count, wouldnt have felt comfortable with less
- A pair of metal bottle cages (Elite something?) that I could pinch in to hold bottles securely - good call, bottles were flying everywhere.
- A second wrap of bar tape (not convinced this helped tbh) Nice relaxed grip on bars more important
- removed out front Garmin mount and used stem mount then taped Garmin to stem. Taped up saddlebag for added support. Taped pump to frame. Basically anything that moved that wasn't meant to got taped down.

It was raining early on so early sections were muddy & treacherous but the sun soon came out and ended up a glorious circuit of the velodrome. Perfect.

Sore wrists and blisters were my main discomfort but some of those sections are evil so to be expected. Stick some plasters in your saddlebag? My best carbon soled road shoes were used - this was going to be a memorable ride so wanted to use my normal kit as much as possible.

Its a memorable day, enjoy.

ugo.santalucia

jordan_217 wrote:

Thanks for the advice folks.

Like I said in my OP, I'm not looking at spending on kit just for the sake of it. I agree wholeheartedly that it's only one ride and TBH I'd rather not spend on kit I don't need. I am just trying to mitigate the chance of spoiling the w'end by not at least considering what (if any) changes I need to make to my usual set up.

As I'm going to take my Enigma and 23mm Michelin PSC are my choice of tyres for that bike, I think I will order some 25mm's PSC Endrurnce tyres and stop thinking too hard about it. I can get a pair for £42 so I'm happy with that.

There isn't much more you can do... if you like those tyres, go for them, I don't know them, so can't say... experiment with pressure to see where is the soft spot

One precaution is to maybe check that all the bolts and nuts are tight, as if they are not they will come loose. Tighten the headset too if needed. Wheels tend to survive if you don't crash badly, so there is no reason not to use the ones you prefer

Admittedly I tend to obsess about tyres, but it's part of the game and I enjoy the build up to the event, including a bit of overthinking. If you don't, then stick to the pressure you know works well for you.

If you have a CX bike, enter a couple of races, they are the best preparation for bike handling skills

Monty Dog

Fit the fattest tyres you can fit and get a feel for the lowest pressure you can run safely. Take a ride on a few towpaths and fireroads just to get the feel for riding on rougher, irregular surfaces but it won't really be the same as the joy of full-on riding on pave.
Getting the bike sorted is pretty straight-forward as there's plenty of info online, but you'll enjoy it a lot more if you do a bit of prep on yourself. Try seated climbing (about 5% steady incline)in the biggest gear you can turn smoothly to get used to driving from your quads - hands on the tops and push yourself back in the saddle.
Whether you simply want to get around, or want to 'monster' every sector is down to you...

Smirf

ugo.santalucia wrote:

ddraver wrote:

I did RVV last year (hope to do P-R this year!)

IME they are night and day. the cobbled roads in Belgium connect villages and towns and are well maintained... the PR cobbled secteurs are farm tracks for 360 or so days of the year. Cars don't use them. They are not maintained and every year they are different, depending on rainfall and tractor use when they are wet and boggy.

For Flanders virtually any setup will do and I've been content with 23 mm (in reality 22) tyres at 100 PSI... infact I was flying on those Corsas! Roubaix is different though, the slightest dampness make those cobbles terrifying. If you have to change the line to overtake it's always a gamble, as there isn't enough room for two clean lines.

I've always found the first half wet and because the paves are nowhere near flat, it's always been a pretty scary experience... I wouldn't underestimate the importance of a tyre that gives you that little bit extra in terms of speed and grip... they both pay dividends in getting you in one piece to the Velodrome

totally agree with this after PR last year, and RVV the year before. The way i would describe is that the Belgians take pride in how well the cobbles are maintained. The french take pride in having the gnarliest nastiest cobbles!

I used 25mm 4 seasons last year. Had 2 pinch punctures when i slammed into a couple of protruding stones. The one thing that struck me was how easy it was to lose momentum in PR. When cycling RVV i felt i could go full gas and maintain that over the sections, but in PR with such variations in surface it totally threw me! BTW Used 25m 4000s at RVV as did 2 mates - no-one punctured

one piece of advice is to know when the sections start - pay attention to the route card. Don't be like me and crack open a gel, turn around the corner and hit a section straight away. Ended up with toffee gel all over the handlebar - as i didn't want to litter!!

cal_stewart

My ten pence worth

Did PR,RVV and LBL last year.

Used my only bike which is cf and runs SR and nothing exploded so you can rule the only use your training bike sh17 out.

I did buy new wheels from Malcolm. Record, nemesis with paves, some people warned me against tubs but over the 3 events don't have one problem or since and I didn't see any tubs being changed. Ran 27mm rear and 24mm front as that was all the clearance I had. (This really changed my view on wheels and I only ride tubs and handbuilds now)

The water bottle issue shouldn't be underestimated the amount of bottles on the pave is unbelievable, I lost one on the first sector and if I'd lost the second I would of been screwed. I was running my tune cages that only take tacx bottles was able to keep the second bottle by pushing it in so the cage dig into the bottle. However if I was to ride the event again I'd use the elite cages with the dial on or look at the pr tech pics on here and mod the cages and bottles for grip with sandpaper like the pro's. However I believe with the stops coming being 1 - 1.5 hrs apart you can get away with 1 750ml bottle.

Bartape. I used gel pads and double wrapped bars as I don't wear gloves, however by the last 3 sectors I was screaming with pain from the vibrations. Think this is always going the happen, however this is my standard tape setup now like the thickness.

Saddle. Swapped out my 90g ww saddle for a turbomatic and I've never gone back, even brought a second one for when it needs replacing.

To sum up on kit if you just ride your everyday or even Sunday best bike with just one mod it would be the bottle cages followed by the biggest tires you can fit. Other than that it's down to taste, don't try anything new on the day that you haven't done in training. For me it turn my bike into a no-nonsense piece of kit, which is more robust and stopped me chasing grams. I also used a out front mount for my garmin no probs no need to tape.

The best advice I was given was on how the ride the pave and I honestly believe it helped the most and it's free.

1. Don't touch your front mech unless you want problems.
2. Ride the pave over geared one or two cogs, attack the sector as faster more power = smoother
3. Grip the bars loosely and don't fight the bike let it moving around.

Anyway best 6hrs I've had on a bike.

ddraver

Agree with Cal

The other thing I'd add is that you ll probably have more "fun" if you ride gently between the sectors taking in the atmosphere and then smash the pave in your Cancellara/Boonen fantasy

cal_stewart

Yet would fall back into a group after each sector.

colinsmith123

Like others have said, don't over think it. Put some decent tyres on your bike. I used Pave's.

The Arenberg is an eye opening experience, and by the time you get to Carrrefour you'll be in the gutter with everyone else. I defy anyone to ride every secteur on the cobbles. And if you have, then chappeau.

The only other advice I would give is to keep laughing all the way through each secteur. It is fun in a sado-masochistic way. (I think).

alihisgreat

This is my cobbled classics bike

greasedscotsman

I'm going to use this next year...

durhamwasp

We did the Veloclub Roubaix P-R sportive this year, and used our Ridley x-bow Cross bikes with 28mm gatorskins. We had perfect sunny day (June) but boy is it tough work on those cobbles,

jordan_217

ALIHISGREAT wrote:

This is my cobbled classics bike

Bars need levelling