Looking at getting first real road bike

wide phil
wide phil Posts: 51
edited February 2015 in Road beginners
Hi first post so just seeing what everyone here can recommend. I have been on mtbs for a few years now and last year fancied something to road ride so I got a Boardman Team Hybrid to use as a fun back lane ride and commute on. First off I found it hard graft with the lack of gears but soon got used to it and found myself taking some nice road rides. Even went out with my mate around Llyn Brianne res taking on Devils Staircase and although he could get away from me on his Giant Defy 1 I wasn't so far behind. I must add I didn't quite make it all the way up the Staircase, but I am 16.5 stone and getting fitter.... mind was 18 stone !! I seemed to be fine on my hybrid although I didn't like the Sran X5 gears and had a frame crack on me, but started to get consistent 50+ mile rides done. By the end of them however, my wrist ached so Im now going for an all out road bike
My first choice is the Cannondale synapse 105 disc. I like the range on the cassette at the back, the fact its shimano gears, its lighter than my hybrid, the discs and the fact its meant to be comfy............
But should I spend a grand on a bike and is there anything better for cheaper ??
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Comments

  • markhewitt1978
    markhewitt1978 Posts: 7,614
    If you liked your Boardman hybrid the boardman road bikes are decent.
  • wide phil
    wide phil Posts: 51
    Definitely not getting another boardman as although my local Halfords were good enough to me I had my fair share of problems that put me off the brand. Not being pompous or anything , and I realise all other brands use mass produced frames from Taiwan, but Im definitely tainted by Boardman and prefer now to use one of the local shops I have close to me
  • markhewitt1978
    markhewitt1978 Posts: 7,614
    wide phil wrote:
    Definitely not getting another boardman as although my local Halfords were good enough to me I had my fair share of problems that put me off the brand. Not being pompous or anything , and I realise all other brands use mass produced frames from Taiwan, but Im definitely tainted by Boardman and prefer now to use one of the local shops I have close to me

    Fair play. There's loads of choice out there for £1,000 so it's impossible to say really . You mention you want to go to your LBS, so see what they stock.

    For reference this is one of the best online deals http://www.planetx.co.uk/i/q/FBPXSLPULT ... -road-bike carbon frame, 11 speed ultegra gears.

    You're going to want to have at least 11 speed 105 or Ultegra at that price.

    Of course you can go cheaper, to say Tiagra level and still get a very good bike.
  • lakesluddite
    lakesluddite Posts: 1,337
    It's been said a thousand times on these fora, but there's still an innate truth in the saying 'try before you buy' - especially with road bikes. Now is a good time to buy I think, the 2014 models will all be discounted to make room for the 2015 'upgrades' (which sometimes are anything but...), and having a look at the model you mentioned, the Canondale, then you could do a lot worse.

    Are you going to use a Cylce-to-work-scheme to purchase? If not I would thoroughly recommend doing so if it is possible for you, and the C'dale is now £850 at Evans (and probably other retailers which I can't be bothered to research).

    I wouldn't necessarily dismiss the Boardman though, they are great bikes for the price - I realise Halfords aren't as 'sexy' as 'proper' bike shops, but that doesn't mean Lord Chris's stuff is shoddy, far from it.

    As for online only - as said above, you should really start with Planet X or Ribble, they have some great value deals.
  • ai_1
    ai_1 Posts: 3,060
    LakesLuddite wrote:
    It's been said a thousand times on these fora, but there's still an innate truth in the saying 'try before you buy' - especially with road bikes....
    It can be nice to see a bike in the flesh just to make sure you like the look of it, and you'll want to know it's a good fit so unless you already know or are willing to spend a bit of time figuring this out yourself an LHS is a good choice. I'm very happy to buy based on published geometry tables now but that wouldn't have done me much good when I started.
    However, I don't agree with the general view that you should test ride a bike before buying it. In short, there are too many variables and what you end up judging is the bike setup, the roads, the weather and your mood on the day, NOT the bike itself. Typically an LHS won't spend lots of time setting up the bike for you to test ride it. They'll check there's some air in the tyres, the brakes work and the saddle is roughly the right height, that's about it. If the tyre pressures are too high or low that will make as much, or more difference to the ride than the frame itself. It's highly likely the saddle position won't be spot on and the stem may be too short, too long, too high or too low. If you're just having a bad day any bike feels bad. If you're having a really good one then nearly any bike will feel good. Bad weather (dull & windy) and a poor road surface will put you off a bike somewhat whereas beautiful sunny day and a smooth road surface will make all seem right with the world. Unless you can test all your candidates side by side with identical saddle/bar geometry and tyres/tyre pressure on the same day, in the same location I don't see much point. Even if you could, hypothetically, do identical side by side testing, I still suspect you're pre-existing preferences based on reputation, brand loyalty, and colour scheme would subconciously influence your judgement as much, or more than any real differences in the structural properties of the frames.

    In reality, we cyclists, like most people, are massively subjective. I think test rides are more an exercise in self deception than an objective evaluation. Of course there is another way to look at it. If you're happy to play along with the idea that a test ride will tell you what bike is right for you, then you can use it to get happy fuzzy feelings about your bike and feel confident in your purchase. It may not be real but that doesn't make it unpleasant ;)
  • markhewitt1978
    markhewitt1978 Posts: 7,614
    Which is why it's just as important to go with a bike that you thinks good and a brand you like rather than a dispassionate analysis of cost vs benefit. You're hopefully going to be spending a very long time riding that bike and you're going to enjoy it more if you love it from the outset.
  • ai_1
    ai_1 Posts: 3,060
    markhewitt1978 wrote:
    Which is why it's just as important to go with a bike that you thinks good and a brand you like rather than a dispassionate analysis of cost vs benefit. You're hopefully going to be spending a very long time riding that bike and you're going to enjoy it more if you love it from the outset.
    Good point. My process last time around went a bit like this:
    1. Rule out the ugly bikes first.
    2. Review geometry charts and see what frames would be a good fit.
    3. Figure out what build spec I want (groupset and wheels)
    4. Read lots of reviews. (I've since decided most of these are of very limited value)
    5. Do some test rides of bikes still in the mix.....Decide test rides are pointless.
    6. Then do the cost/benefit analysis bit.
    7. Proceed to convince myself the winner of the cost/benefit analysis is the most beautiful bike in the world and anyone would be crazy to get anything else.
    8. Wait a little while and see if the self hypnosis lasts.
    9. Buy the bike.
  • kajjal
    kajjal Posts: 3,380
    Due to your weight disc brakes will be helpful, especially in the wet. Road bike rim brakes are not the best in comparison especially in the wet.

    I would do test rides to give you an idea of sizing and how the bikes feel / ride if possible. Buying a bike that is the wrong size because you didn't test ride it is not a good idea ;)
  • lostboysaint
    lostboysaint Posts: 4,250
    The other big thing for you will be wheels. Most standard wheelsets will not fancy your weight on them so it's probably worth budgeting for a decent upgrade pair with a suitable number of spokes (32 or 36 each end).
    Trail fun - Transition Bandit
    Road - Wilier Izoard Centaur/Cube Agree C62 Disc
    Allround - Cotic Solaris
  • wide phil
    wide phil Posts: 51
    Im local to sunset cycles and the Cannondale is in there. Its pretty much that I like its look and Ive been told the 11speed 105 shimano is very good, the 2014 model can be had for £150 less I think but has 10 sp 105. The rims are maddux RD3.0 28 hole, good or bad I don't know but Im told that's a good amount of spokes for me and my size.
    I am also local to a shop that supplies Merida and like the look of those but the disc model is a few £s more than the Cannondale.
    Thanks for the replies so far mind
  • kajjal
    kajjal Posts: 3,380
    lostboysaint wrote:
    The other big thing for you will be wheels. Most standard wheelsets will not fancy your weight on them so it's probably worth budgeting for a decent upgrade pair with a suitable number of spokes (32 or 36 each end).

    This is good advice to watch out for bikes that come with lighter, lower spoke count wheels. Generally up to about £1,000 the bikes tend to come with stronger, heavier wheels. I am about 100kg and the wheels on my Trek 1.5 have been fine , check manufacturers websites for weigh limits.
  • wide phil
    wide phil Posts: 51
    Another bike I do like is the Merida Ride 400. Rim brakes but someone has said in my ear that rim brakes have stopped bigger bloke than me for many years.... fair point I thought.
    The other point that could concern me with discs wheels is if they were ever wanted to be upgraded there is very little out there it seems for 11 speed disc wheels, where as bikes with rim brakes has many choices to go for should the need arise ever
  • markhewitt1978
    markhewitt1978 Posts: 7,614
    wide phil wrote:
    Im local to sunset cycles and the Cannondale is in there. Its pretty much that I like its look and Ive been told the 11speed 105 shimano is very good, the 2014 model can be had for £150 less I think but has 10 sp 105. The rims are maddux RD3.0 28 hole, good or bad I don't know but Im told that's a good amount of spokes for me and my size.
    I am also local to a shop that supplies Merida and like the look of those but the disc model is a few £s more than the Cannondale.
    Thanks for the replies so far mind

    11 speed 105 is definitely worth the extra £150, and it's not really about the 11th cog. The shifting is far better, the braking is far better, it's just a much nicer groupset.
  • ai_1
    ai_1 Posts: 3,060
    wide phil wrote:
    Another bike I do like is the Merida Ride 400. Rim brakes but someone has said in my ear that rim brakes have stopped bigger bloke than me for many years....
    Yes, we've gotten by with rim brakes for most of bicycle history and they will indeed stop your bike...eventually and so long as it's not a steep descent in the wet. However, disk brakes are, in my opinion, far superior. I'm a little lighter than you but still fairly heavy for a cyclist (~86kg). In my opinion rim brake performance is not as good as we should expect from our bikes. We accept it because it's what we're used to, not because it's actually good enough. In the dry rim brakes do the job fairly well, providing they're set up properly and you keep your rims clean, but in the wet and especially if you've ridden through some dirty puddles, they can be completely unreliable and inadequate. On a number of occasions I've gotten a fright when I pulled the brakes and got much less response than I expected and needed. On a couple of those occassions this came close to causing an accident. Rim brakes are a cheap and light solution to slowing down a bike but they have many faults which is why, from an engineering perspective, they're massively outdated technology.
    Rim brakes will stop you, mostly, and they are still the norm on road bikes but over the next couple of years I think disk brakes will take over a significant portion of the market. Once they get general acceptance I reckon rim brakes will quickly start to vanish from new bikes.
    If you will ride in the wet in hilly terrain and especially if you're a bit heavier, there's a lot to be said for disk brakes.
  • kajjal
    kajjal Posts: 3,380
    Ai_1 wrote:
    wide phil wrote:
    Another bike I do like is the Merida Ride 400. Rim brakes but someone has said in my ear that rim brakes have stopped bigger bloke than me for many years....
    Yes, we've gotten by with rim brakes for most of bicycle history and they will indeed stop your bike...eventually and so long as it's not a steep descent in the wet. However, disk brakes are, in my opinion, far superior. I'm a little lighter than you but still fairly heavy for a cyclist (~86kg). In my opinion rim brake performance is not as good as we should expect from our bikes. We accept it because it's what we're used to, not because it's actually good enough. In the dry rim brakes do the job fairly well, providing they're set up properly and you keep your rims clean, but in the wet and especially if you've ridden through some dirty puddles, they can be completely unreliable and inadequate. On a number of occasions I've gotten a fright when I pulled the brakes and got much less response than I expected and needed. On a couple of those occassions this came close to causing an accident. Rim brakes are a cheap and light solution to slowing down a bike but they have many faults which is why, from an engineering perspective, they're massively outdated technology.
    Rim brakes will stop you, mostly, and they are still the norm on road bikes but over the next couple of years I think disk brakes will take over a significant portion of the market. Once they get general acceptance I reckon rim brakes will quickly start to vanish from new bikes.
    If you will ride in the wet in hilly terrain and especially if you're a bit heavier, there's a lot to be said for disk brakes.

    I found the same after many years of mountain biking using hydraulic disc brakes. First steep downhill on my road bike, pulled on the brakes to go round a sharp left turn and due to lack of braking drifted right over the opposite lane. I was lucky it was a quiet road in a small village. Tried the same downhill on my xc mountain bike and could brake a lot later with much more feel / control.
  • wide phil
    wide phil Posts: 51
    Ai_1 wrote:
    wide phil wrote:
    If you will ride in the wet in hilly terrain and especially if you're a bit heavier, there's a lot to be said for disk brakes.

    Hmmm yes most of my riding is in hilly areas and I live in Wales and it tends to rain now and again :lol:
    My decision is definitely still swayed toward the Cannondale and I guess discs will become the norm in the not so distant future so wheel price will come down... along with my weight :lol:
    I guess also as a deciding factor is the fact that I too have MTBs with very decent hydraulic brakes and may find it difficult to adjust to rim brakes after years of tidy braking !!
  • Neil_aky
    Neil_aky Posts: 211
    Have you considered something more versatile - e.g. GT Grade Alloy 105. Excellent brakes, light enough with loads of room for wide tyres if you fancy a little cyclocross and mudguards in winter...?

    http://www.bikeradar.com/road/gear/cate ... -15-48994/
  • wide phil
    wide phil Posts: 51
    Neil_aky wrote:
    Have you considered something more versatile - e.g. GT Grade Alloy 105. Excellent brakes, light enough with loads of room for wide tyres if you fancy a little cyclocross and mudguards in winter...?

    http://www.bikeradar.com/road/gear/cate ... -15-48994/
    An interesting find ! Will go down sunset and ask about them as they have them on their site
  • wide phil
    wide phil Posts: 51
    Well Im still undecided !!! Bike I still prefer is Cannondale synapse disc 105.... but ... its a grand and Im not so sure its how much I want to spend on a road bike as my main cycling fun is on the mountains. I will use the road bike for fun rides in the sun and lonely wintery training rides to keep the fitness up.
    I have now seen a Defy for £400 . Its a 3 model with sora gears... What they like ??
  • ai_1
    ai_1 Posts: 3,060
    wide phil wrote:
    Well Im still undecided !!! Bike I still prefer is Cannondale synapse disc 105.... but ... its a grand and Im not so sure its how much I want to spend on a road bike as my main cycling fun is on the mountains. I will use the road bike for fun rides in the sun and lonely wintery training rides to keep the fitness up.
    I have now seen a Defy for £400 . Its a 3 model with sora gears... What they like ??
    You mean the 3 model or the Sora gears?
    Current Sora is similar to last gen Tiagra. i.e. 9 speed with gear change up and down via the brake levers and sub levers. No thumb shift like Sora used to have. So current Sora should be absolutely fine. I used the largely similar 9sp Tiagra for 3.5 years without any complaints.
  • wide phil
    wide phil Posts: 51
    Yes... well its the 2014 defy 3 and today ,after deliberating sooo much I bought it from Rutland. as much as I would have loved to get the Cannondale. It was a £1000 and the defy was £400. I do more mountain biking in reality, but enjoy the fitness I have been gaining from the road riding, As a result the road rides will be taking a more purposeful edge with a dedicated road bike. although the bike is a fair bit of spec down from the 105 stuff on the higher end budget bikes, Im guessing its going to be perfectly good enough for me for a year or 2. By then I will know if moving up the spec ladder is really needed. I will also guess the Defy will be a whole load better than the Boardman Team hybrid I was using last summer for long road rides, even with Sora
  • markhewitt1978
    markhewitt1978 Posts: 7,614
    https://www.giant-bicycles.com/en-gb/bi ... 977/66546/

    This one I assume. That's a bloody good deal for £400. It's a very nice bike indeed.

    What I usually point out here is that I ride a full carbon bike with Ultegra gears. My friend rides an Aluminum bike with Sora gears very similar spec to your Giant. Who's the fastest when we're out cycling together? - I wish I could say it's me but it's not :(;)

    Only thing to look at with that bike first would be the brakes and brake pads, likely to be under specced.
  • wide phil
    wide phil Posts: 51
    Yes that's the one. Im getting excited looking forward to trying it.... once I get over my groin hernia surgery from 3 week ago !!
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,666
    LakesLuddite wrote:
    It's been said a thousand times on these fora, but there's still an innate truth in the saying 'try before you buy' - especially with road bikes.

    When people go on about test riding it sounds like they are just pro an lbs purchase.

    Not quite sure what newbies can get from a test ride, they do not know what they are looking for do they?
    Loads of newbies walk away from a bike shop with a bike thats too big for them, and thats one of the main things to get right.

    As long as its not too big, not overly too small, roughly the right geometry, everything else is just choice of spec and colour.
    You need to do a bit of homework and get some advice more than go on test rides IMO.
    A first bikes job is to be learnt from.

    How are lbs for test rides anyway?
    Are they happy for you to go on multiple bikes?
    Do they let you go off alone or ride behind you (I know at least one that does that).
  • ai_1
    ai_1 Posts: 3,060
    Carbonator wrote:
    LakesLuddite wrote:
    It's been said a thousand times on these fora, but there's still an innate truth in the saying 'try before you buy' - especially with road bikes.

    When people go on about test riding it sounds like they are just pro an lbs purchase.

    Not quite sure what newbies can get from a test ride, they do not know what they are looking for do they?
    Loads of newbies walk away from a bike shop with a bike thats too big for them, and thats one of the main things to get right.

    As long as its not too big, not overly too small, roughly the right geometry, everything else is just choice of spec and colour.
    You need to do a bit of homework and get some advice more than go on test rides IMO.
    A first bikes job is to be learnt from.

    How are lbs for test rides anyway?
    Are they happy for you to go on multiple bikes?
    Do they let you go off alone or ride behind you (I know at least one that does that).
    Agreed. IMO test rides are an exercise in self delusion and that's about it.
    They test your mood and form, the setup of the bike, the weather and road near the shop. You're not really testing the bike.
    This is especially true, I suspect, for beginners but still so to some extent for more experienced riders.
  • wide phil
    wide phil Posts: 51
    Well I can say predominantly.. I had umm'd and argh;d over spending a grand on another bike, especially on one that was alien to me. I had a quick ride on my mates defy 1 a few months ago to feel the difference between it and my boardman hybrid but it didn't really give me a massive insight into road bikes. The deciding factors was.... I liked its colours :D and the £400 for it I had sat in an envelope since the sale of my boardman back in October so it didn't dent my finances
  • ai_1
    ai_1 Posts: 3,060
    wide phil wrote:
    Well I can say predominantly.. I had umm'd and argh;d over spending a grand on another bike, especially on one that was alien to me. I had a quick ride on my mates defy 1 a few months ago to feel the difference between it and my boardman hybrid but it didn't really give me a massive insight into road bikes. The deciding factors was.... I liked its colours :D and the £400 for it I had sat in an envelope since the sale of my boardman back in October so it didn't dent my finances
    As I said above, I don't think test rides are good for much. As you did, we mostly decide what we want based on appearances, prices, marketing claims, general opinion and reviews. Test rides are an opportunity to convince ourselves the bike fits and feels great too but it's self deception IMO.
  • markhewitt1978
    markhewitt1978 Posts: 7,614
    Ai_1 wrote:
    As I said above, I don't think test rides are good for much. As you did, we mostly decide what we want based on appearances, prices, marketing claims, general opinion and reviews. Test rides are an opportunity to convince ourselves the bike fits and feels great too but it's self deception IMO.

    Indeed. There are too many variables in bike fit, seat post length, saddle layback, stem length, stem height, bar width, lever rotation, crank length etc etc plus even the best fitting bike can feel strange if it's the first time you've ridden it. I know even with my bike if I haven't ridden it for a few weeks the first couple of miles seem strange.
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,666
    edited February 2015
    A lot of people have just heard others say "the best thing to do is go to an lbs and test ride a few bikes" and then repeat it in advice to others because it makes them sound knowledgeable.
    It sounds a reasonable thing to say, but in reality is not.

    It's like when people say to lose 5lb from your body rather than your bike.
    Sounds reasonable, makes you sound like an expert to many, but is ultimately a load of rubbish.
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,334
    Carbonator wrote:
    A lot of people have just heard others say "the best thing to do is go to an lbs and test ride a few bikes" and then repeat it in advice to others because it makes them sound knowledgeable.
    It sounds a reasonable thing to say, but in reality is not.

    It's like when people say to lose 5lb from your body rather than your bike.
    Sounds reasonable, makes you sound like an expert, but is ultimately a load of rubbish.

    So the sensible advice to give would be to buy a light bike off the internet and keep the weight around the waistline? :roll:
    left the forum March 2023

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