Road rim advice please.

Bovral
Bovral Posts: 4
edited December 2014 in Road buying advice
Hello
I'd like some advice on choosing a rim for my first wheel build.
I'm planning to use them for base miles and commuting over the winter. I would like a reasonable quality 23+mm rim that will be novice friendly to build with, build into a robust wheel and be relatively inexpensive.
I will be using 32 hole shimano 105 hubs and sapim race spokes. I weigh 85kg and will be using 28mm tyres.
H plus son archetypes are a good rim I know but I'd like something with a more traditional look and a lower price tag if possible.
So if someone with some knowledge of the subject could point me in the right direction I would be grateful.

Comments

  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,312
    H plus Son TB 14 is the easiest to build, with double eyelets you can't drop a nipple inside the rim... very beginner friendly. Nice rim too
    left the forum March 2023
  • marcusjb
    marcusjb Posts: 2,412
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    H plus Son TB 14 is the easiest to build, with double eyelets you can't drop a nipple inside the rim... very beginner friendly. Nice rim too

    Just built up a pair for my fixed. They are indeed a nice rim and, in especially the polished chrome, do have a pretty classic box section look.

    Only done around 1500km on them, but they seem great so far
    Stuff about riding a bike a long way
  • cycleclinic
    cycleclinic Posts: 6,865
    Nice rim but not cheap. Use a spoke to hold the nipples and pop them in the hole and that will allow you to build easily with rims without eyelets. That opens up rims like the Kinlin XC-279 which are very good and alot cheaper. TB14;s are pretty though. There is of course the H plus Son archtype which is the same price.

    Also look at the DT Swiss R460 that should be a fine rim.
    http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.
  • andrew_s
    andrew_s Posts: 2,511
    Exal LX17 - £18 a pop, double eyelets, build easily, suitable for tyres from 25 to 50 (ish)
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,312
    andrew_s wrote:
    Exal LX17 - £18 a pop, double eyelets, build easily, suitable for tyres from 25 to 50 (ish)

    Have you built any yourself? Can you comment on quality and if the weight quoted is roughly correct? Could be an interesting budget option
    left the forum March 2023
  • cycleclinic
    cycleclinic Posts: 6,865
    If touring rims are on the menu now then for a similar price to the TB14 there is the DT Swiss TK540 another excellent rim.

    A cheaper toruing rim is the Mavic 119 or the slightly more expensive A319. So many options.
    http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.
  • andrew_s
    andrew_s Posts: 2,511
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    andrew_s wrote:
    Exal LX17 - £18 a pop, double eyelets, build easily, suitable for tyres from 25 to 50 (ish)

    Have you built any yourself? Can you comment on quality and if the weight quoted is roughly correct? Could be an interesting budget option
    I built up a pair around Christmas 2009.
    As I said, they built easily, which I interpret to mean that they were accurately straight. I didn't weigh them, and as they were disc wheels, I didn't get a spare, as I normally would, so I can't weigh one now. If I washed the mud off, they would currently do a fair imitation of new wheels - no corrosion at the eyelets, no cracking around the spokes.

    The problem I had was with the spokes.
    After about a year and a half, I had 3 driveside spokes break in the middle in quick succession, so I replaced all the spokes on that side and retensioned. 3 or 4 months later, the spokes on the other side started to break, also in the middle, so they got replaced too.
    Of the 6 spokes that broke, 3 were at or near the crossing (36h 3x), one was 2 - 3 cm from the hub flange, and the other two were between the crossing and the rim.

    Example:
    spoke3.jpg

    Any idea what was wrong? Has there been a bad batch of Sapim spokes around?
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,312
    tension too low?
    left the forum March 2023
  • cycleclinic
    cycleclinic Posts: 6,865
    I am sorry to say it is not the spokes fault. Low tension/uneven tension will do what you experienced.
    http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.
  • mercia_man
    mercia_man Posts: 1,431
    I used Exal LX17 to replace the worn out Alesa Endeavour rims on my touring bike. It was only my second attempt to re-rim wheels, having previously replaced a 20in rim on my wife's Bike Friday with no problems.

    Even though I was a novice, I found the Exals built up easily. Not quite as easily as on the Bike Friday but I guess 20 in rims are easier to true than 700 ones.

    I reused my spokes, taping the rims together side by side and moving the spokes across. I used roofing tacks blue-tacked to the frame to ensure the rim was running evenly side to side and up and down. I used the frame to get the dishing OK. I took my time, taking a whole day to do it, tensioning the spokes by feel, comparing with an existing handbuilt wheel and the noise the spokes made when I tapped them with a screwdriver.

    That was around four years ago and I've done plenty of miles since then, including coast to coast across France and holidays in the Alps and Pyrenees, all laden with camping gear, without any problems or need for re-truing. So I reckon I did it OK.

    Obviously, I don't have the experience to compare rims but for me, a novice wheel builder, the Exals were pretty easy to build up and get true without any special equipment. And they are cheap. So my experience would suggest they would be a decent rim for a first build.
  • mercia_man
    mercia_man Posts: 1,431
    One more tip for OP. After building, I stressed each wheel several times by squeezing pairs of spokes together and putting wheel flat on floor and pushing rim all the way round before re-tensioning. The wheels felt stiff and responsive when I rode off up our lane and there were no pings or creaks from the spokes.

    I found plenty of useful stuff on the Internet about wheel building. I was already handy enough with a spoke key after 40 years' experience of maintaining spoked wheels on motorcycles and bicycles.
  • marpick
    marpick Posts: 49
    Anyone recommend a preferred supplier for spokes?
  • keezx
    keezx Posts: 1,322
    I prefer this one:
    https://www.derks-wielersport.nl/spaken ... &results=3

    Unbeatable for Sapim Race.
  • marpick
    marpick Posts: 49
    Keezx wrote:
    I prefer this one:
    https://www.derks-wielersport.nl/spaken ... &results=3

    Unbeatable for Sapim Race.

    Thanks Keezx, anyone recommend a UK based supplier?
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,312
    Marpick wrote:
    Thanks Keezx, anyone recommend a UK based supplier?

    Cyclebasket in Wales for Alpina double butted
    Just Riding Along for all things Sapim
    If you want DT Swiss, they are expensive in the UK, courtesy of Madison, best bet is to buy them from Rose in Germany...
    If you want a solid build with a very minor weight penalty, my new favourite spoke is DT Swiss Alpine 3... it won't fit all hubs though, you need fairly wide holes
    left the forum March 2023
  • keezx
    keezx Posts: 1,322
    Another rim which is inexpensive, 23 mm and not too heavy is Alexrims AT490.
    Might not available easy in the UK, but NL and DE can deliver.
  • marpick
    marpick Posts: 49
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    Marpick wrote:
    Thanks Keezx, anyone recommend a UK based supplier?

    Cyclebasket in Wales for Alpina double butted
    Just Riding Along for all things Sapim
    If you want DT Swiss, they are expensive in the UK, courtesy of Madison, best bet is to buy them from Rose in Germany...
    If you want a solid build with a very minor weight penalty, my new favourite spoke is DT Swiss Alpine 3... it won't fit all hubs though, you need fairly wide holes

    Thanks ugo, about to embark on my first build, 105 hub on h plus archetype 32, recommend a spoke?

    Oops, just re-read your post, will look at DT alpines?
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,312
    Marpick wrote:
    Oops, just re-read your post, will look at DT alpines?

    I think they are the best spokes out there and I aim to use them more... maybe OTT for a front wheel though

    Tight fit on some hubs... they won't probably fit in a the Dura Ace holes... should be OK for the lower series. I normally use them for disc builds on Novatec
    left the forum March 2023
  • andrew_s
    andrew_s Posts: 2,511
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    tension too low?
    About 120 kgf driveside, according to a Park gauge. Anyway, if it was slack spokes, I'd expect them to break at the elbow, not in the middle.
  • src1
    src1 Posts: 301
    I use the spoked wheel (http://thespokedwheel.co.uk/spokes-tubes-tape.html) for DT and TheCycleClinic for Sapim spokes - both UK based.

    @marpick, You didn't state your weight or intended use, but Sapim Race or DT Competition are good safe choices. Archetype rims are very stiff so you could possibly get away with a lighter spoke such as a sapim laser, but best to leave that until you've got a few wheels under your belt.
  • Bovral
    Bovral Posts: 4
    Thank you everyone for suggestions I'm going to go with the one most of you were first to mention, the TB14, They're £45 at the moment from Hubjub and they are a really nice looking rim:).
    I'm also going to use Ambrosio zenith hubs instead of the 105's. Another nice looking bit of kit and one less set of bearings to strip and regrease every few months.
    Seems that I can get rims hubs and spokes for £190 so I don't think that's bad at all.
    I've downloaded Roger Mussons Wheel building book and knocked together a stand and gauges from the plans at work this week so I'm just about set to go.
  • marpick
    marpick Posts: 49
    SRC1 wrote:
    I use the spoked wheel (http://thespokedwheel.co.uk/spokes-tubes-tape.html) for DT and TheCycleClinic for Sapim spokes - both UK based.

    @marpick, You didn't state your weight or intended use, but Sapim Race or DT Competition are good safe choices. Archetype rims are very stiff so you could possibly get away with a lighter spoke such as a sapim laser, but best to leave that until you've got a few wheels under your belt.

    I'm just under 16st and reducing and ride mainly sportives

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