Wheel upgrade for entry bike , is it worth?

alfa

Hi,

I own a Triban 5 with all stock parts so far and I thought that will be nice to upgrade wheels for new season.
I read a lot before about benefits/cons of new wheels and almost decided for Fulcrum Racing Quattro Clincher with some Durano S tyres, but just before I was about to buy them , something told me to check opinions about ' wheel upgrade ' once again online...and at this point I am more confused than ever before.

Never had opportunity to ride any decent more expensive bike , so don't have nothing to compare that's why I would like to ask YOU experienced cyclist about opinion .

I have only one question, is it worth to change stock wheels for those mentioned above ? Will that make any significant difference?

I do not race
I ride for pleasure, started road cycling on April this year, done something like 1300miles - Absolutely enjoy every ride.

thanks

dj58

Hi, I don't have those wheels myself, however there are a couple of favourable reviews below. Just bear in mind they are low spoke count wheels, so check that you are not over their weight limit.

Also be aware that they use aluminium spoke nipples, if you are going to use them through winter on salted/gritted roads make sure you clean them after each ride otherwise the nipples could seize onto the steel spokes.

http://www.fulcrumwheels.com/en/collect ... ng-quattro

http://roadcyclinguk.com/gear/fulcrum-r ... jbBzfHh.97
http://road.cc/content/review/70652-ful ... tro-wheels

DavidJB

Get Fulcrum Racing 3's instead...a much better, lighter do it all wheel.

Bobbinogs

There are lots of wheel options and most (within certain price brackets) are pretty much the same. There isn't a wheel in the world (irrespective of price) that will help a non-climber fly up a climb no matter what marketing BS goes with it.

Having kicked this around a few times at my local club I think there are certain camps for wheels: those that think the wheels tangibly make a big difference, those that think not, and then those that think they make a bike feel different... or not! One would think that for something that can be measured (time) then this would be easily resolved but apparently not, and that is before one adds in subjective "feel"...you can see why we all still talk about it.

Personally, I think that a nice nimble feeling bike is lovely to ride, irrespective of what Strava tells me, and if some nice wheels will help then that is good enough for me (up to a certain price point).

To help you get this in perspective weight wise, your Triban 5 is a good machine and weighs about 10kg. Add in your weight and then subtract about 1kg to see what new wheels will change about your overall weight. Folks will post lots of stuff about rotational weight but it seems scientific research hasn't caught up with those theories.

On any club ride, the folks who normally get to the top of a climb first will normally do so on any given climb. This is irrespective of wheels, bike, cadence, pump in the pocket or frame, matching bar tape/saddle colour, etc...

However, you have a decent bike and the stock wheels will be no more than adequate. New wheels will make the bike feel fresh and, most importantly, look great. So, when the spring arrives my advice would be to get some Zondas (or any other else similar) and some nice tyres (my pref is Ultremo DD) and then get out and enjoy the new year. Until then, ride when it is safe and don't fret

Oh, forgot to mention the standard caveats which is if you are over 95kg then forget low spoke count options and go for decent 32/36 handbuilts with a wider rim...and lose some weight fatboy

ai_1

A wheel upgrade will likely make a difference but it won't be big and it may not even be noticable, at least that's my experience. On flat routes heavy wheels don't make much difference at all. On climbs lighter wheels seem to feel different but it's hard to be sure what's real and what's in your head. I do like my ~1500g wheels but I can't say I'd notice straight away if someone switched them for a similar looking 2000g set. If someone changed my tires to something stiffer I'd notice pretty quick.
If you're still using the original tyres, which I'm assuming are nothing special, or you've replaced them with something cheap and cheerful I'd recommend upgrading the tyres before worrying about the wheels. It's likely to make a much bigger difference.

darkhairedlord

Wheel upgrade will only benefit in few ways:
Stiffness, so the wheel rim doesn't flex and rub on the brake calipers.
Wear. Better rim materials reduce wear at the brake track.
Marginally less drag at speed. Exponential so the faster you are the more benefit you will see.
Rim width, to hold wider tyres to a larger radius profile at the contact point.
Bling. This is what most get from an upgrade.

keezx

darkhairedlord wrote:

Wear. Better rim materials reduce wear at the brake track.

First time I'ever heard or read about this, although i'm 40 years in the bike scene.....
Can you give an exemple?

slowbike

I'm firmly in the "upgrade wheels is a good idea" camp.

Nothing to do with the weight, spoke count or rim material.

As far as I'm concerned it's all to do with DRAG ... cheap wheels are cheap for a reason - the main one I've seen are the bearings - yes, they're ok, but under load they still drag and not as smooth as a hub off an upgraded wheel. Of course, you could buy some branded hubs and rebuild the wheel, but TBH it's easier to buy the new wheel then you have the stock wheels as emergency/winter spares.

darkhairedlord

Keezx wrote:

darkhairedlord wrote:

Wear. Better rim materials reduce wear at the brake track.

MOD EDIT: - Cut the Sarcasm out

prhymeate

After riding my Triban 3 for a year and a half, I upgraded the wheels and rode it for another year before buying a new bike. I think it's definitely a worthwhile upgrade.

keezx

darkhairedlord wrote:

Keezx wrote:

darkhairedlord wrote:

Wear. Better rim materials reduce wear at the brake track.

First time I'ever heard or read about this, although i'm 40 years in the bike scene.....
Can you give an exemple?

so you don't believe material properties can influence wear?
Perhaps a test is in order: Take an angle grinder and see how long it takes to wear through some bearing steel. Now try the same thing with your skull. Clearly material properties do influence wear!

No the kind exemple I'm interested in.
We 're not talking about steel but a narrow group of aluminium alloys.
So i'm still waiting.....

Ai_1 wrote:

"Better" wheels are typically designed for some combination of lighter weight, better stiffness, improved aerodynamics and appealing aesthetics. If rim wear isn't part of their marketing strategy, it's unlikely they've chosen materials with improved rim wear in mind.

Except the obvious "ceramic "rims.

Manc33

I bought some 1400g wheels and ended up putting the original 2100g wheelset back on my Triban 3 because the 1400g wheels were so flimsy you could move the rim side to side really easily. Maybe if I spent 3x the amount on a pair of Dura-Ace wheels (that are also around 1400g) they might be as stiff as wheels need to be.

Unless you're literally racing I wouldn't even bother getting lighter wheels and if you do, get decent ones lol, I mean like Mavic or something built well. Anything using a rim around 500g-600g per rim should be sturdy. Mine are around 400g and just don't cut it, apart from racing, then they would be ideal.

Spoke count is 20/24 though, on Tribans its 32/32.

I am selling those wheels of mine soon for about £150 I just need to get round to it, might be next year yet. :roll: I won't ever be using them again.

Eventually what I am going to do is get a light rim like a Kinlin XR-200 and do a 28/32 setup. If those are flimsy with 8 more spokes front and 8 more at the back, I will just sell them, since I am building them myself it should be possible to "demo" them and keep them brand new, if they are flexy I will just flog them on eBay as a new handbuilt wheelset. My aim is not to end up doing that and keeping them because they are sturdy.

I think that will give me personally what I want - a strong wheelset thats only about 1600g-1700g. Thats what we all want! Unless you're literally racing then yeah, everything changes.

ugo.santalucia

Numbers to crunch:
If you invest 300 quid in a set of wheels 500 grams lighter than your current one... given everything else equal you are roughly buying yourself 2 climbing Watts... roughly speaking it means that if you climb the Alpe d'Huez in 70 minutes, with the light wheels you should climb the Alpe in 69 minutes and 30 seconds.
Up a lesser known south east England hill, the 30 seconds become roughly 5 seconds.

Although some folks refer to these numbers as "transformed the bike", I would be a bit more skeptical and call them a very marginal improvement.

As for aero... 50 mm deep rims at 19 mph will buy you 3 watts on a flat surface, which can propel you a tiny bit further... roughly 150 metres further over an hour effort... basically pedalling for an hour you should be able to get home 20 seconds earlier

Matthewfalle

darkhairedlord wrote:

Keezx wrote:

darkhairedlord wrote:

Wear. Better rim materials reduce wear at the brake track.

First time I'ever heard or read about this, although i'm 40 years in the bike scene.....
Can you give an exemple?

so you don't believe material properties can influence wear?
Perhaps a test is in order: Take an angle grinder and see how long it takes to wear through some bearing steel. Now try the same thing with your skull. Clearly material properties do influence wear!

j

Now that's not very nice. The guy was only asking a question.

I must admit to being intrigued as well - has anyone anything apart from anecdotal evidence for this?

Matthewfalle

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Numbers to crunch:
If you invest 300 quid in a set of wheels 500 grams lighter than your current one... given everything else equal you are roughly buying yourself 2 climbing Watts... roughly speaking it means that if you climb the Alpe d'Huez in 70 minutes, with the light wheels you should climb the Alpe in 69 minutes and 30 seconds.
Up a lesser known south east England hill, the 30 seconds become roughly 5 seconds.

Although some folks refer to these numbers as "transformed the bike", I would be a bit more skeptical and call them a very marginal improvement.

As for aero... 50 mm deep rims at 19 mph will buy you 3 watts on a flat surface, which can propel you a tiny bit further... roughly 150 metres further over an hour effort... basically pedalling for an hour you should be able to get home 20 seconds earlier

So the recommendation is? I read this as don't change what you have to upgrade, only change when they are worn out.

ugo.santalucia

Matthewfalle wrote:

So the recommendation is? I read this as don't change what you have to upgrade, only change when they are worn out.

Maths don't tell the full story. My advice, if there has to be one, is: upgrade to get something more reliable and serviceable that runs trouble free with low friction. Don't buy into the marketing blurb focussing on light and aero because the numbers to support light and aero are outrageously hyped.

Tjgoodhew

IMO looking to spend £180 on wheels for a bike that cost £350 isnt really worth it.

I would ride the hell out of the bike as it is and save some more money and look to buy a better bike that would warrant a decent set of wheels. As above a lighter set of wheels isnt going to make a massive amount of differene to your riding.

This time of year is great for picking up heavily discounted bikes that are simply last years model

slowbike

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Maths don't tell the full story. My advice, if there has to be one, is: upgrade to get something more reliable and serviceable that runs trouble free with low friction. Don't buy into the marketing blurb focussing on light and aero because the numbers to support light and aero are outrageously hyped.

Ugo, you're normally selling the idea of handbuilts because they're cheaper to replace spokes, rims & hubs, but this is a better argument (although probably what you meant all along).

Changing from my stock wheels (mavic CXP22? rims with unbranded hubs) to Fulcrum Racing Ts was an awakening experience - the FR just rolled so much better under pressure yet they're a cheap wheel with relatively shallow rim. Was it the aero spokes? The rim profile? Or the hub & bearings - well on reflection I think the majority of it has to be the bearings as the wheels are harder work now - the bearings need replacing - the spokes and rims are still fine - what has broken is the freehub and at £60 to replace it is rather uneconomical to do so - so 2 1/4 years of riding and the wheels are now almost beyond saving (economically speaking) - but I'd buy another pair of FR like a shot because they run freely - fast enough to give reasonable results during a TT too. I'll wait till they don't work any more though!

keezx

Racing T is something like Racing 5's or so?
Like a Chinese philosopher said , faith moves mountains.

keezx

Slowbike wrote:

I'm firmly in the "upgrade wheels is a good idea" camp.

As far as I'm concerned it's all to do with DRAG ... cheap wheels are cheap for a reason - the main one I've seen are the bearings - yes, they're ok, but under load they still drag and not as smooth as a hub off an upgraded wheel.

I'm a firm believer that the drag of bearings has zero to do with the drag of a wheel, because the drag of a ballbearing is almost zero and certainly isn't something a human being can feel during cycling.

davidof

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Numbers to crunch:
If you invest 300 quid in a set of wheels 500 grams lighter than your current one... given everything else equal you are roughly buying yourself 2 climbing Watts... roughly speaking it means that if you climb the Alpe d'Huez in 70 minutes, with the light wheels you should climb the Alpe in 69 minutes and 30 seconds.

This is totally unscientific but this is an 810 meter climb by my house which I do as a training run, it's like my own little Madone.

Summer Bike vam 1,033.9 43:19 weight (rider, bottle, tools) 88kg wheels: Ultegra (about 1650 g)
Winter Bike vam 974.3 45:58 weight (rider, bottle, tools) 90kg wheels: open 4 CD (about 2100g)

This climb has a lot of hairpins and changes in grade so the advantage of the Ultegra wheels is slightly better acceleration out of the bends. The winter wheels are bomber on rough road surfaces though - I've done unpaved alpine passes on them.

ugo.santalucia

davidof wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Numbers to crunch:
If you invest 300 quid in a set of wheels 500 grams lighter than your current one... given everything else equal you are roughly buying yourself 2 climbing Watts... roughly speaking it means that if you climb the Alpe d'Huez in 70 minutes, with the light wheels you should climb the Alpe in 69 minutes and 30 seconds.

This is totally unscientific but this is an 810 meter climb by my house which I do as a training run, it's like my own little Madone.

Summer Bike vam 1,033.9 43:19 weight (rider, bottle, tools) 88kg wheels: Ultegra (about 1650 g)
Winter Bike vam 974.3 45:58 weight (rider, bottle, tools) 90kg wheels: open 4 CD (about 2100g)

This climb has a lot of hairpins and changes in grade so the advantage of the Ultegra wheels is slightly better acceleration out of the bends. The winter wheels are bomber on rough road surfaces though - I've done unpaved alpine passes on them.

2.5 Kg extra and 2:30 min extra is textbook... 1 min per Kg on a similar climb is the norm

alfa

I expected it will happen, but didn't expect it will be that quick..the whole discussion what I found on few other cycling forums. I understand all the pros/cons pretty much now, I've spent xx hours reading by now.

To those who ever have contact/experience with fulcrum quattro omitting question ' is it worth ? ' for a moment... If I am 90kg rider, will these ones perform well, without any problems? Manufactured says max 109kg [just rider ] but there is only 16/21 spokes and Im just wondering if that can affect somehow on my ride / safety on the road?

ugo.santalucia

I lost 3 Kg and I was God on the climbs this morning... just saying... 8)

Manc33

ugo.santalucia wrote:

I lost 3 Kg and I was God on the climbs this morning... just saying... 8)

I lost about 25lbs... and don't go any faster.

(its been windy) :oops:

"Wheel upgrade for entry bike" doesn't state the goal of it, could be:

1. Replacing a heavy wheelset with a lighter one
2. A straight upgrade to "better" components.

Trisross

I would upgrade wheels. A second set of wheels is always handy.

Winchman

If my T5 experience is anything to go by you need to get some new wheels soon anyway. They've cut costs using the stock wheels, and after 2 rear wheel bearing failures (1 changed under warranty) I gave up and bought Fulcrum 5s. The stock wheels actually rolled quite well compared to others in the club group but just did not last. The Fulcrum 5s roll better and have now done quite a lot of miles with no problems, as expected.

chippyk

Like Winchman the bearings failed on my T5. Maybe my own fault as I might have put it away wet in the Spring, I can't remember, anyway it was siezed when I got it out to service for the winter. It seems really common for the bearings to go on them anyway. I got some of Decathlon's wheels off the Mach 700 range, about 1.7kg, bladed spokes. Feel better than the old ones, solely based on that the bike didn't feel a whole lot more sluggish than my Bianchi this year, but then again that could be all in my head.

lesfirth

Winchman wrote:

The stock wheels actually rolled quite well compared to others in the club group but just did not last. The Fulcrum 5s roll better and have now done quite a lot of miles with no problems, as expected.

How do you know whether your wheels are rolling better or worse than others in a club group? I can not tell any difference in rolling in wheels on my own bikes!

Regarding the difference in drag I agree with Keezx. The difference in drag between any type of wheel bearing, unless it is worn to the point where total seizure is imminent, is far smaller than negligible.

mugensi

To the OP, I would buy the Quattros. I have a set on my best bike even though I have a set of older Zondas on my winter bike. The Quattros are an excellent set of wheels for their price. They are stiff and climb well and roll super smooth and free. I've my set now just over 2 years and they replaced a set of Pro R25's on Tiagra hubs which were roughly 150g heavier but didnt roll as smoothly as the Quattros nor were they as stiff. Pair them with a set of low rolling resistance tyres (Michelin Pro 4 SC's or GP4000's) and you should notice quite a big differnce over the stock factory wheels/tyres.

chrisw12

ugo.santalucia wrote:

I lost 3 Kg and I was God on the climbs this morning... just saying... 8)

I think this is the winner. You can spend a lot of money on wheels and save a small amount of weight but you can go on a crash diet for a few days and save kg and be much quicker.