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Richmond Park Cycling Review

asprillaasprilla Posts: 8,440
edited December 2014 in Commuting chat
Any constituents going to pop along to this?

http://road.cc/content/news/137501-cycl ... twen-users

I'm looking at you Veronese, CJ and LondonRed.
Mud - Genesis Vapour CCX
Race - Fuji Norcom Straight
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Winter / Commute - Dolan ADX
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  • Asprilla wrote:
    Any constituents going to pop along to this?

    http://road.cc/content/news/137501-cycl ... twen-users

    I'm looking at you Veronese, CJ and LondonRed.

    if and it's a very big if, I have the energy partically since i finish work at 7.30 so would have to make a dash for it.

    http://www.zacgoldsmith.com/events/14/cycling-public-meeting/
  • This time of the year I do use the park a bit more ,specifically the track around it (Tamsin trail?)... I don't see all these tensions to be honest... I've never been shouted at and everybody seem to go on rather well... cyclists, dogs & walkers, horses and runners.
  • This time of the year I do use the park a bit more ,specifically the track around it (Tamsin trail?)... I don't see all these tensions to be honest... I've never been shouted at and everybody seem to go on rather well... cyclists, dogs & walkers, horses and runners.

    likewise, most of the time I'm around when most others are not, normally in the afternoon after work, just occasionally get drafters/cutting in too close from roadies but for most part it's a nice ride around the park, I vary between road and trail.

    don't get me wrong I have seen some selfish behavior, overtaking head on, both bikes and cars, and groups of roadies swamping others etc.
  • My commute goes through RP.

    I do find it surprising/actually not very surprising/annoying that (once again) the focus is on cyclists. Like the red light jumping thing, when my anecdotal but fairly extensive experience is that more cars than bikes actually jump red lights (and hugely more if you include amber gamblers and ASLs).

    Almost no cars in RP keep to the 20mph limit (which it has recently been confirmed by the authorities themselves does not apply to bikes). Most are polite and courteous to cyclists, a visible minority are not. The latter are generally the ones speeding ...

    In fact, for me the main topic to be discussed is why they let cars go through RP at all. But since the answer to that lies mainly in the surrounding private school runs I guess it won't be a priority.
  • veronese68veronese68 Posts: 24,793 Lives Here
    The thing is, if I were to go I'd just sound like an old hippy asking why everyone can't just get along. Banning cars would not be a good thing, banning cycling would not be a good thing. People just need to stop acting like selfish twunts and give other people a bit of room.
  • cjcpcjcp Posts: 13,345
    Hoping to attend, but, as Andrew says above, my concern is the focus is on cyclists. It's good that the issue of Park use is up for discussion, but i hope it doesn't degenerate into a Question Time-style rant against cyclists, with nothing of substance coming out of it.

    I share Veronese's attitude that it probably comes down to the attitude of all Park users. If cars were to be banned for any part of any day, it should be to protect the environment in the park rather than because they're cars.
    FCN 2-4.

    "What happens when the hammer goes down, kids?"
    "It stays down, Daddy."
    "Exactly."
  • I think it's good to discuss these topics, but I don't think any action is necessary. The park is already heavily regulated, it's just a matter of enforcing the rules if they need to be enforced. It seems a first world problem anyway... it is a fairly peaceful place, even when busy
  • verminvermin Posts: 1,739
    Ban the Dynamos
  • Never been there but I hope that those on here can attend - just to balance things out a bit and put your side of the story, even if it's just 'everythings mostly fine'. In fact, especially if that's the case :)
  • asprillaasprilla Posts: 8,440
    vermin wrote:
    Ban the Dynamos

    Would you like a bigger wooden spoon?
    Mud - Genesis Vapour CCX
    Race - Fuji Norcom Straight
    Sun - Cervelo R3
    Winter / Commute - Dolan ADX
  • Walls82Walls82 Posts: 126
    I'd bet my house on nothing meaningful coming from it - I can see why they are doing it but your going to have to "solve" the ridiculous cars vs bikes debate that the press like to ignite every so often.

    I think Veronese nailed the solution. I'm lucky enough to commute through the park and its great to see some really wonderful things that make you stop and look, I guess people forget why they go there.
  • marcusjbmarcusjb Posts: 2,412
    Walls82 wrote:
    I think Veronese nailed the solution. I'm lucky enough to commute through the park and its great to see some really wonderful things that make you stop and look, I guess people forget why they go there.

    Basically that.

    I see knobheads in cars, knobheads on bikes, knobheads on foot, knobheads on skates, knobhead deer - but thankfully they are in the minority. Most users are perfectly considerate.

    I am sure the meeting will boil down to a cyclist bashing session because we're the most easily identifiable group.

    It's a fantastic place and we're lucky to have something so special on our doorsteps in this crowded city. But, like most resources in London, it's a little stretched - choose your time to use it wisely and there's rarely any issues.
  • shutting Robin Hood Gate seemed to reduce through traffic - so would it be worth shutting Sheen and Ham so you just had a gate in each corner?
    I am not sure banning Dynamo would be practical but it would be reasonable to ban clubs from training in there (through traffic would be fine) outside of certain hours. In reality it would make little difference but would help perceptions.
  • davmaggsdavmaggs Posts: 1,008
    It strikes me as a meeting being staged because it's beginning the run up to the election.

    The trick (from friends once in the business) is for the MP to find a local topic and have a meeting about it. Ed Davey in Kingston for example is publicising himself "campaigning" for a change to the Oystercard zone, which no resident would ever object to of course.

    Looking at the agenda, and the reasonable letter from the friends of the park it seems like the 'problem' will come down to some anecdotes that can't actually be solved. It's being run for the PR rather than an actual outcome.
  • davmaggs wrote:
    It strikes me as a meeting being staged because it's beginning the run up to the election.

    The trick (from friends once in the business) is for the MP to find a local topic and have a meeting about it. Ed Davey in Kingston for example is publicising himself "campaigning" for a change to the Oystercard zone, which no resident would ever object to of course.

    Looking at the agenda, and the reasonable letter from the friends of the park it seems like the 'problem' will come down to some anecdotes that can't actually be solved. It's being run for the PR rather than an actual outcome.

    Do you think that Dynamo is actually a cycling club formed by local tories so that good old Zac can clean the menace up in time for May?
  • davmaggsdavmaggs Posts: 1,008
    well it is a marginal seat :)
  • bigmatbigmat Posts: 5,129
    shutting Robin Hood Gate seemed to reduce through traffic - so would it be worth shutting Sheen and Ham so you just had a gate in each corner?
    I am not sure banning Dynamo would be practical but it would be reasonable to ban clubs from training in there (through traffic would be fine) outside of certain hours. In reality it would make little difference but would help perceptions.

    Just to clarify, you're actually advocating banning cyclists from training on public roads? I despair... :roll:
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 57,844 Lives Here
    Definitely some knobbish riding there.

    Minority ruining it for the majority etc, but they're a pretty prominent minority.
  • BigMat wrote:
    shutting Robin Hood Gate seemed to reduce through traffic - so would it be worth shutting Sheen and Ham so you just had a gate in each corner?
    I am not sure banning Dynamo would be practical but it would be reasonable to ban clubs from training in there (through traffic would be fine) outside of certain hours. In reality it would make little difference but would help perceptions.

    Just to clarify, you're actually advocating banning cyclists from training on public roads? I despair... :roll:

    the roads in RP are inappropriate for running multiple chaingangs... if you witnessed it you would see why it causes issues with other park users. I also have to listen to complaints from people at work describing how the same people plough through women and children (learning to cycle/skate) on the quiet internal roads.
  • verminvermin Posts: 1,739
    edited December 2014
    Asprilla wrote:
    vermin wrote:
    Ban the Dynamos

    Would you like a bigger wooden spoon?

    A friend of a friend told me he once saw one eating a kitten, with a wooden spoon.
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 57,844 Lives Here
    BigMat wrote:
    shutting Robin Hood Gate seemed to reduce through traffic - so would it be worth shutting Sheen and Ham so you just had a gate in each corner?
    I am not sure banning Dynamo would be practical but it would be reasonable to ban clubs from training in there (through traffic would be fine) outside of certain hours. In reality it would make little difference but would help perceptions.

    Just to clarify, you're actually advocating banning cyclists from training on public roads? I despair... :roll:

    the roads in RP are inappropriate for running multiple chaingangs... if you witnessed it you would see why it causes issues with other park users. I also have to listen to complaints from people at work describing how the same people plough through women and children (learning to cycle/skate) on the quiet internal roads.

    This does happen. There is definitely a bunch of people who ride around like they own the place and literally shout people out of the way.

    It's embarrassing. I often use the quieter roads as a shortcut. I probably don't stick to the speed limit strictly, but I am extremely courteous on those paths and make a point of being as accommodating as possible.

    People like to let their kids learn to ride there, mooch about, etc etc. This is London - there aren't many places to do that, so they should absolutely have a place in the park to do that.

    --

    Separately yes, this is definitely an election ploy, but behaviour of a noisy minority could definitely be improved.

    Is a shame really.
  • vermin wrote:
    Asprilla wrote:
    vermin wrote:
    Ban the Dynamos

    Would you like a bigger wooden spoon?

    A friend of a friend told me he once saw one eating a kitten, with a wooden spoon.

    off the bike they are incredibly well mannered people - so I find it unlikely that they would be eating a kitten with the wrong cutlery.
  • veronese68veronese68 Posts: 24,793 Lives Here
    but behaviour of a noisy minority could definitely be improved.
    But this is true of every group be they cyclists, drivers, joggers, dog walkers or parents. Decimation is the only answer. Kill the worst behaved 10% of every group. It would also help alleviate the overcrowding problem and would focus the minds of those that survive. Obviously behaviour would slip over time so the exercise would have to be repeated every now and then, maybe not annually.
    They already do this with the deer cull so why not other users of the park?
  • bigmatbigmat Posts: 5,129
    BigMat wrote:
    shutting Robin Hood Gate seemed to reduce through traffic - so would it be worth shutting Sheen and Ham so you just had a gate in each corner?
    I am not sure banning Dynamo would be practical but it would be reasonable to ban clubs from training in there (through traffic would be fine) outside of certain hours. In reality it would make little difference but would help perceptions.

    Just to clarify, you're actually advocating banning cyclists from training on public roads? I despair... :roll:

    the roads in RP are inappropriate for running multiple chaingangs... if you witnessed it you would see why it causes issues with other park users. I also have to listen to complaints from people at work describing how the same people plough through women and children (learning to cycle/skate) on the quiet internal roads.

    This does happen. There is definitely a bunch of people who ride around like they own the place and literally shout people out of the way.

    It's embarrassing. I often use the quieter roads as a shortcut. I probably don't stick to the speed limit strictly, but I am extremely courteous on those paths and make a point of being as accommodating as possible.

    People like to let their kids learn to ride there, mooch about, etc etc. This is London - there aren't many places to do that, so they should absolutely have a place in the park to do that.

    --

    Separately yes, this is definitely an election ploy, but behaviour of a noisy minority could definitely be improved.

    Is a shame really.

    If stuff like that is really going on then the clubs involved need to take it in hand. I have seen some nobhead riding there but it hasn't been club rides, just individuals or riders out in twos and threes. Actually, to be fair I have had a couple of incidents with Dynamo but that was a few years back, I tend to be moving faster than them nowadays so don't have the whole "swamped by an angry mob" thing, but can see how this might be intimidating. Bad manners not restricted to cyclists though, pedestrians and drivers equally bad. If everyone showed a bit more consideration then the current setup would be fine.
  • BigMat wrote:
    BigMat wrote:
    shutting Robin Hood Gate seemed to reduce through traffic - so would it be worth shutting Sheen and Ham so you just had a gate in each corner?
    I am not sure banning Dynamo would be practical but it would be reasonable to ban clubs from training in there (through traffic would be fine) outside of certain hours. In reality it would make little difference but would help perceptions.

    Just to clarify, you're actually advocating banning cyclists from training on public roads? I despair... :roll:

    the roads in RP are inappropriate for running multiple chaingangs... if you witnessed it you would see why it causes issues with other park users. I also have to listen to complaints from people at work describing how the same people plough through women and children (learning to cycle/skate) on the quiet internal roads.

    This does happen. There is definitely a bunch of people who ride around like they own the place and literally shout people out of the way.

    It's embarrassing. I often use the quieter roads as a shortcut. I probably don't stick to the speed limit strictly, but I am extremely courteous on those paths and make a point of being as accommodating as possible.

    People like to let their kids learn to ride there, mooch about, etc etc. This is London - there aren't many places to do that, so they should absolutely have a place in the park to do that.

    --

    Separately yes, this is definitely an election ploy, but behaviour of a noisy minority could definitely be improved.

    Is a shame really.

    If stuff like that is really going on then the clubs involved need to take it in hand. I have seen some nobhead riding there but it hasn't been club rides, just individuals or riders out in twos and threes. Actually, to be fair I have had a couple of incidents with Dynamo but that was a few years back, I tend to be moving faster than them nowadays so don't have the whole "swamped by an angry mob" thing, but can see how this might be intimidating. Bad manners not restricted to cyclists though, pedestrians and drivers equally bad. If everyone showed a bit more consideration then the current setup would be fine.

    totally agree but they are individuals so harder to "re-educate" than one club who in my opinion should MTFU and go out on the open roads.
  • marcusjbmarcusjb Posts: 2,412
    totally agree but they are individuals so harder to "re-educate" than one club who in my opinion should MTFU and go out on the open roads.

    I hope you're going to pay for their re-education - turning that lot into ambiturners is going to take quite some time and effort.
  • marcusjb wrote:
    totally agree but they are individuals so harder to "re-educate" than one club who in my opinion should MTFU and go out on the open roads.

    I hope you're going to pay for their re-education - turning that lot into ambiturners is going to take quite some time and effort.

    I had to google that :D

    I have never done a clockwise lap :oops: in fact I have never cycled from Pembroke Lodge to Sheen Cross
  • asprillaasprilla Posts: 8,440
    BigMat wrote:
    If stuff like that is really going on then the clubs involved need to take it in hand. I have seen some nobhead riding there but it hasn't been club rides, just individuals or riders out in twos and threes. Actually, to be fair I have had a couple of incidents with Dynamo but that was a few years back, I tend to be moving faster than them nowadays so don't have the whole "swamped by an angry mob" thing, but can see how this might be intimidating. Bad manners not restricted to cyclists though, pedestrians and drivers equally bad. If everyone showed a bit more consideration then the current setup would be fine.

    Friend of mine had this happen at the weekend.

    I suggested that next time he sit-up, yawn and stretch his arms out.
    Mud - Genesis Vapour CCX
    Race - Fuji Norcom Straight
    Sun - Cervelo R3
    Winter / Commute - Dolan ADX
  • Asprilla wrote:
    BigMat wrote:
    If stuff like that is really going on then the clubs involved need to take it in hand. I have seen some nobhead riding there but it hasn't been club rides, just individuals or riders out in twos and threes. Actually, to be fair I have had a couple of incidents with Dynamo but that was a few years back, I tend to be moving faster than them nowadays so don't have the whole "swamped by an angry mob" thing, but can see how this might be intimidating. Bad manners not restricted to cyclists though, pedestrians and drivers equally bad. If everyone showed a bit more consideration then the current setup would be fine.

    Friend of mine had this happen at the weekend.

    I suggested that next time he sit-up, yawn and stretch his arms out.

    no need to stretch...when it happened to me the first missed bu feet the second by inches the 3rd by centimetres then I had to brake to avoid the rest. Interestingly the anger powered me to catch them up and I found myself moving up the outer line admonishing each in turn, then realised I would be on the inside when I reached my turn at Kingston Gate.

    On the plus side I set some PBs on Strava :D
  • vermin wrote:
    Ban the Dynamos

    Which ones?
    Superstition begins with pinning race number 13 upside down and it ends with the brutal slaughter of Mamils at the cake stop.
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