Club rides

Smithster

I was out on a club ride this morning, when 45 mins into the ride, one of the more experienced riders pulled everyone up, as the group was fragmenting due to the pace being too high.

A few pointers were laid down regarding group riding etiquette etc. and being a newish club with riders new to group riding, the suggestions were took aboard.

On returning home, it would appear all of his advice is what is the norm for other clubs nationwide, but one point does confuse me.

Most, if not all clubs state that 'A club ride will be at the pace of the slowest rider not the quickest', and it is this point that I am after an opinion on. At what point is a pace too slow (or fast), and is the decision based on the majority of what people can ride at rather than the minority?

NeXXus

Too many factors either way to provide a definitive

jibberjim

It's the responsibility of that disproportionately slow rider to say, "Sorry guys, I'm holding you up, I know the way from here".

However if it's "fragmenting" it's probably not the pace that's the issue, but muppets not knowing how to ride in a group.

Pezzle

jibberjim wrote:

It's the responsibility of that disproportionately slow rider to say, "Sorry guys, I'm holding you up, I know the way from here".

However if it's "fragmenting" it's probably not the pace that's the issue, but muppets not knowing how to ride in a group.

And what if the slowest rider doesn't know the route to "know there way from here". Not everyone know which routes the club rides will take or be familiar with the roads where they are riding!

As newbies to group riding how are people supposed to know immediately how to ride in a group and not be muppets?

These are the kind of comment that stop people approaching a clubs to ride!

Dippydog3

I rode today in a group that started with a dozen riders. We had a new member who is 72 years old but can keep up a very respectable pace on the flat. He just struggles on hills over 8%. I made a point of waiting for him. Several others didn't and I thought that was not on. The "rules" should be clear up front. If you say it is a no drop ride then live with it. If you want to charge off then thats fine, but tell everyone you are out to set a time or whatever.

In my simple view, if you want to ride at your own pace then go on your own. Or find a friend with identical fitness.

For me, group rides are about being social. Its nice to have slower people around. When I am coughing up my lungs I find it hard to chat.

izza

It shouold be stated beforehand - e.g on club website, forum, beginning of ride, etc. - is the ride a social, "we always wait" or a training/regular ride with norm average speed. If the latter, then do they wait for mechanicals and punctures and are the gpx files available before the ride.

jibberjim

Pezzle wrote:

And what if the slowest rider doesn't know the route to "know there way from here". Not everyone know which routes the club rides will take or be familiar with the roads where they are riding!

It's always the responsibility of everyone to know how to get home from where they are... A map of the area, road signs, etc. it's not difficult, but of course they could also say "Sorry, I'm holding you up, can you drop me off near road X / point me in the right direction etc. etc."

Pezzle wrote:

As newbies to group riding how are people supposed to know immediately how to ride in a group and not be muppets?

Then they should be going on newbie group rides - most clubs run them in addition to their club runs.

iron-clover

As said, it depends on the patience of the group, the club policy and the pace of the slow rider compared to others.

Most clubs have a slow group for beginners where everyone knows its going to be a slow ride, and is normally shorter for that reason.
In my last club we would start the month doing a short route, and build up each week to potentially 70miles in the summer on the last weekend of the month, with beginners welcome on the first weekend and then newer riders not attending the longer rides they feel they can't manage.

On the last beginners ride I did I volunteered to sweep the slow group so took my hybrid along to try and make it at least a little more challenging for me. As it was I spent 20 miles leading a complete newbie on an even less suitable mountain bike by myself after they refused to bow out and could only crawl along at a maximum of 7mph (about 3 on any incline over 2%...) after about 30mins of riding. Because I was on an mtb style hybrid I could just about stay upright behind them so I let the others go on. Luckily it was a beautiful summers day and I had already signed up for a slow ride.
That's also why it's a good idea to have a leader and sweeper in the beginner group, so if there is a very slow rider they can lead them back without slowing the rest of the group too much.

In such extreme cases, most clubs including the beginners rides will just ask someone like this to leave the ride before they get themselves lost and to work on their fitness a bit more. Then they'd just get dropped if they persisted.

cougie

I'd say it depends on the run. If its the fast boys - then if you're on that you are expected to be fast. They won't wait for you - and if you're fast then you probably know the area.

If its the general club run and you're new - at least a couple of people should guide you back. If you're just riding the wheels then it's a lot easier than doing your turn on the front.

bobmcstuff

Dippydog3 wrote:

In my simple view, if you want to ride at your own pace then go on your own. Or find a friend with identical fitness.

Or always make sure you're the slowest person in the group

awavey

jibberjim wrote:

Then they should be going on newbie group rides - most clubs run them in addition to their club runs.

but most newbie group rides Ive seen advertised by clubs local to me, set unrealistically high expectations on pace, ability & endurance to the point you wonder if its just set that way to stop "newbie muppets" from joining.

and thats before you hear the anectdotes back from those people brave enough to attempt some of these rides where the we'll deliberately drop you to see if you give up or carry on, is almost some odd rite of passage entry into the group.

Ive encountered a few club rides out and about, and I cant say what Ive seen from the way the behave and go about their group cycling, entices me to want to join them.

Big Geordie

Most clubs will assume a basic level of fitness and bike handling ability from anybody who wants to join a club outing- and I don't think many people would buy a bike on Saturday and go out with a local club on Sunday. Distance and pace will usually be posted on the website/facebook page so people should have some idea what to expect.

If you are new to club riding you will, at some point, get dropped. If it is a no drop group they should wait or somebody should come back and ride with you to make sure you are okay. If you are hopelessly out of your depth (or just having a really bad day) then have the good manners to say, "This isn't working, I'll get out on my own a bit more and come back when I'm fitter."

When I started in the mid eighties no local club had a "no drop" ride. You kept up or you went home alone. It was a good way to improve really quickly but it no doubt put a lot of people off. After the first week I knew what to expect and for months I went out expecting to go off the back- but every week I managed to keep up for a little bit longer. I truly believe things are better for newbies now.

DavidJB

When I got on the fast ride it's a get dropped ride...although we do wait for people at the end of this long drag. I prefer it that way. The club has 3 other rides for 'no droppers'.

Smithster

Cheers for all the replies, all most helpful.

After reading all the replies last night, I think point arose during the ride because it is still a smallish growing club.

There is a social ride and there is a club ride. With the social ride being advertised as a no drop policy ride at the pace of the weakest rider, and the club ride being advertised as a quicker pace ride, but with no mention of a no drop policy. There is currently no halfway house for intermediate riders which most bigger clubs seem to adopt.

Until the club grows sufficiently, and until there are members to fill perhaps three ride types, then we will continue to learn, and show 'as we already do', each other respect and etiquette.

We could also benefit from more group riding skills, but one thing we are not are 'muppets'.

Cheers All

cougie

Dont forget that although the speeds might look high - its about 30% easier riding someones wheel than it is doing it by yourself. YOu only need take a turn every so often, and if you're struggling- say so and skip a few.

If you're clearly out of your depth - then turn off before you get lost. :-)

BeaconRuth

awavey wrote:

jibberjim wrote:

Then they should be going on newbie group rides - most clubs run them in addition to their club runs.

but most newbie group rides Ive seen advertised by clubs local to me, set unrealistically high expectations on pace, ability & endurance to the point you wonder if its just set that way to stop "newbie muppets" from joining.

and thats before you hear the anectdotes back from those people brave enough to attempt some of these rides where the we'll deliberately drop you to see if you give up or carry on, is almost some odd rite of passage entry into the group.

Ive encountered a few club rides out and about, and I cant say what Ive seen from the way the behave and go about their group cycling, entices me to want to join them.

For those looking into the world of cycling clubs and club group rides I suggest trying not to lump all clubs and all 'club rides' into one category and thinking they're all the same. They're not. There is a huge range of clubs and a huge range of club rides.

If I might say so, awavey, you seem to be unnecessarily intimidated by the clubs you've seen. Just look elsewhere and keep asking round because I bet there is a club or group which rides at your speed. I know for sure that there are plenty of very kind and welcoming people in the cycling world who wouldn't drop a newcomer and I suspect there are groups which would "go about their group cycling" in a way which does "entice you to want to join them".

Ruth

popularname

One other thought - there is a certain technique and discipline involved in group riding that's worth learning and I get frustrated when new riders join a club run and ignore that. One of the problems we often have is that new riders turn up and go on a slower ride (we have four different paced rides) and then decide that they want to work harder - so up the pace which means the group gets strung out or broken up - or they just break away. Sometimes the remaining group catches them up again 10 miles down the road; sometimes not.

Apart from the courtesy/good group riding practice, it's good discipline to work at the slowest rider's pace - but that should be *within reason* - you do need a similar level of fitness. Everyone has a responsibility to everyone else and when it works, it's brilliant. But I believe you should only drop off the back, not break away on these rides.

I've brought back in riders who are new and who can't keep up and who need company coming back in. I've been in groups where others have just dropped off and said they'll be fine. I've been a slowest rider and have had groups going at my pace or - if I've gone on the faster ride and been unable to keep up cos I'm not fit enough - have just dropped off the back. I've even been the strongest rider in a group and found that I'm very comfortable and could go faster - but that's not the point of these rides - the point is that (in our club) it's not a race and you work together. You work on group technique, not speed.

Good luck with the new club Smithster - my experience has been that you'll all get the hang of riding at everyone's pace

briantrumpet

Smithster wrote:

Until the club grows sufficiently, and until there are members to fill perhaps three ride types, then we will continue to learn, and show 'as we already do', each other respect and etiquette.

I think that's the thing - it's a mistake to think that all clubs can or should be all things to all people. My club started doing 'Intro Rides' a couple of years ago that act as a stepping stone to the normal club rides (and now doing Go-Ride for youths), and though we won't ever drop someone from those, they do assume a certain level of fitness (distance and speed published, so if someone turns up in flip-flops and with a pink basket on the front of their bike, we might suggest that they might struggle).

But we keep in mind that whatever rides we do organise as a club we must be able to run properly, relying as we do on club members to make them happen: better to do fewer rides properly, than try to be everything to everyone. There are other clubs/groups around that do the things we can't/don't.

Pezzle

awavey wrote:

but most newbie group rides Ive seen advertised by clubs local to me, set unrealistically high expectations on pace, ability & endurance to the point you wonder if its just set that way to stop "newbie muppets" from joining.

and thats before you hear the anectdotes back from those people brave enough to attempt some of these rides where the we'll deliberately drop you to see if you give up or carry on, is almost some odd rite of passage entry into the group.

Ive encountered a few club rides out and about, and I cant say what Ive seen from the way the behave and go about their group cycling, entices me to want to join them.

Exactly my experience hence my response to jibberjim.

None of want to chase the pack for the whole ride but likewise we would relish the chance to ride with what we class as a faster group for our abilities.

You don't know what you don't know and responses as such don't help you feel welcome or inclined to put yourself into a group. On balance most responses here have felt more "inclusive" and offered explanations. Thank you to those who responded as such my faith in that all clubs dont have people like that in them has been restored.

The Go Ride stuff, Skyride and Breeze stuff coming out of BC is great but even then you fall into an "in between speed" it's hard to work out where you can fit in. We all want to improve and maximise our riding time. Those who show a bit of patience towards newbies will be rewarded by seeing their club colleagues flourish by their nurturing.

I will continue to look for such a club.