Flashing lights (at the front)

thescouselander

So now the darker nights are with us I've been noticing a lot of people cycling with their front light on flash. I know this is supposed to be more visible but I've found just the opposite as a driver as its fifty fifty if you're going to see cyclist when scanning the mirrors or looking round at a junction.

What's other peoples opinion on this? Personally I wouldn't run a front light on flash unless I had another on constant or the flash was very fast.

CiB

Flash rates have to be no more than something around 4 per second IIRC. Whatever is it, it's not feasible that the human eye would fail to register the light in between the on & off phases.

If anything the flash makes it easier to see. And most people IME do run fixed & flash together, front & rear.

thescouselander

It's very feasible for a flashing light to be missed. Some lights only flash at 1HZ and if you look up glance times for motorists on the internet a significant number only look in their mirror for less than a second and some only look for 0.5 seconds. That means if the timing was wrong most of the glance at the mirror could have been in the off phase.

roger_merriman

CiB wrote:

Flash rates have to be no more than something around 4 per second IIRC. Whatever is it, it's not feasible that the human eye would fail to register the light in between the on & off phases.

If anything the flash makes it easier to see. And most people IME do run fixed & flash together, front & rear.

Depends on the area I guess most have lights on flash here with no back up steady.

Even though the parks which are properly dark...

juanerasmoe

I agree with OP. The problem is that constant beams drain the battery to fast compared to flashing mode...
I've been using this light http://goo.gl/yFKYqw for a couple of months and it has a mode for 1 LED flashing and the other constant, but it will only give a couple of hours of battery compared to 20+ hours in just flashing.

IanRCarter

I go for a low power light flashing and a powerful light on constant. The flashing one is bright enough to be noticed but not so bright that it is affects the vision of oncoming road users. I posted the same thing yesterday in a thread about rear lights, flashing and super bright do not go well together, a view which many friends and family I speak to agree with. Some cyclists insists it's a good thing, that way they see you, but people are perfectly capable of seeing something without being dazzled by it.

wishitwasallflat

IanRCarter wrote:

I go for a low power light flashing and a powerful light on constant. The flashing one is bright enough to be noticed but not so bright that it is affects the vision of oncoming road users. I posted the same thing yesterday in a thread about rear lights, flashing and super bright do not go well together, a view which many friends and family I speak to agree with. Some cyclists insists it's a good thing, that way they see you, but people are perfectly capable of seeing something without being dazzled by it.

While that may be true of some people I have learned the hard way that some other people would miss a fecking blazing comet in the passenger seat beside them with a full or orchestra playing. Sadly it's the latter that will run you over on a SMIDSY and IME the more lights and formats and the brighter the better. If it isn't needed for some drivers like you and your friends and family no problem this is about addressing the need to stay safe when sharing the roads with the worst most inattentive drivers not the good or the average.

Bozman

A few years back I nearly collected a cyclist with just a flashing light on the front, with the busy traffic and street lighting the guy just disappeared but thankfully I saw him at the last minute and managed to stop while he swerved to avoid me.
Being a cyclist and motorcyclist I'm extra vigilant and thankfully I saw him, but within the busy moving traffic/lights you just couldn't see him.

bendertherobot

Bozman wrote:

A few years back I nearly collected a cyclist with just a flashing light on the front, with the busy traffic and street lighting the guy just disappeared but thankfully I saw him at the last minute and managed to stop while he swerved to avoid me.
Being a cyclist and motorcyclist I'm extra vigilant and thankfully I saw him, but within the busy moving traffic/lights you just couldn't see him.

Please don't take this as argumentative but, if he'd had that same light on solid, amidst that sea of lights, do you think you'd have seen him?

markhewitt1978

Flashing lights are helpful, as long as the flashes are fast.

There was an occasion this week, I was driving home, in the dark, filthy weather, looked in my rear view mirror and saw a flashing light coming up on my left, so I left plenty space. Because it was flashing I instantly clocked it was a cyclist, if it had been steady I don't know that it would.

cougie

I think you have to accept that if you're in traffic at night - its harder to see whether its a flashing light, or steady or both.

If I'm cycling at night - steady light as I'm not usually out in rush hour traffic.

If I'm out on a dull winters day - flashing light for visibility.

If I was riding rush hour - both.

term1te

If you are going to have a flashing front light, then I'd go for a wide-angle one. There are a number of cyclists around here that use really bright tight beam lights aimed at eye hight on flash mode. You can see they are there, but it is painful to look at, and very difficult to judge their speed or distance. I nearly hit one guy on a cycle path (we were both on bikes) who had a really bright flashing light on the bars and one on his helmet, so the blinding flashes stayed in my eyes as he turned his head to look at me. I couldn't see anything else other than his strobe and nearly veered into him.

Its not so bad if you're in a car, but it is still difficult to judge the distance and speed of a cyclist if they only have a bright flashing light.

veronese68

In traffic I think the Exposure lights that are always on but with a brighter pulse work better than on/off flashing lights. They are expensive, but I think they are the most effective.

Bozman

bendertherobot wrote:

Bozman wrote:

A few years back I nearly collected a cyclist with just a flashing light on the front, with the busy traffic and street lighting the guy just disappeared but thankfully I saw him at the last minute and managed to stop while he swerved to avoid me.
Being a cyclist and motorcyclist I'm extra vigilant and thankfully I saw him, but within the busy moving traffic/lights you just couldn't see him.

Please don't take this as argumentative but, if he'd had that same light on solid, amidst that sea of lights, do you think you'd have seen him?

I'd like to say yes but I can't.
One small Wilkos flashing light, no Hi Viz, busy traffic, low street lighting and darkness. I'm just glad that I looked twice.

slowbike

Veronese68 wrote:

In traffic I think the Exposure lights that are always on but with a brighter pulse work better than on/off flashing lights. They are expensive, but I think they are the most effective.

Cateye have the same function - called Hyper-constant - my one wet commute through town in the dark saw this being put to good use - the flash isn't too fast to confuse anyone but fast enough to be registered as a flash.

I hate powerful lights on the helmets being used on the road as it's so easy to dazzle another road user - but they are quite handy if you're riding on a dark twisty road/path as you can light up where you're going to be.

If you're going to run a front flasher then it needs to stand out against the background - so a weak flasher in the daylight isn't going to work (yes I saw one the other morning - I saw the rider before I saw his light!) - you're generally going to use it when cars have their lights on but you don't need to see where you're going - so it needs to be as bright as a cars headlights.

bendertherobot

Bozman wrote:

bendertherobot wrote:

Bozman wrote:

A few years back I nearly collected a cyclist with just a flashing light on the front, with the busy traffic and street lighting the guy just disappeared but thankfully I saw him at the last minute and managed to stop while he swerved to avoid me.
Being a cyclist and motorcyclist I'm extra vigilant and thankfully I saw him, but within the busy moving traffic/lights you just couldn't see him.

Please don't take this as argumentative but, if he'd had that same light on solid, amidst that sea of lights, do you think you'd have seen him?

I'd like to say yes but I can't.
One small Wilkos flashing light, no Hi Viz, busy traffic, low street lighting and darkness. I'm just glad that I looked twice.

I think, as others have said, the quality, or beam, matters. I run with the see sense front light now. You won't miss it.

LeighM

I use a Knog Blinder Road 3 on the front, which gives me Flash, Constant and a combination of the two, in several intensities - Bright, very bright and argh, my eyes!.

If you don't see me coming with this, you've probably got your eyes closed.

Undertones

wishitwasallflat wrote:

IanRCarter wrote:

I go for a low power light flashing and a powerful light on constant. The flashing one is bright enough to be noticed but not so bright that it is affects the vision of oncoming road users. I posted the same thing yesterday in a thread about rear lights, flashing and super bright do not go well together, a view which many friends and family I speak to agree with. Some cyclists insists it's a good thing, that way they see you, but people are perfectly capable of seeing something without being dazzled by it.

While that may be true of some people I have learned the hard way that some other people would miss a ******* blazing comet in the passenger seat beside them with a full or orchestra playing. Sadly it's the latter that will run you over on a SMIDSY and IME the more lights and formats and the brighter the better. If it isn't needed for some drivers like you and your friends and family no problem this is about addressing the need to stay safe when sharing the roads with the worst most inattentive drivers not the good or the average.

gubber12345

wishitwasallflat wrote:

IanRCarter wrote:

I go for a low power light flashing and a powerful light on constant. The flashing one is bright enough to be noticed but not so bright that it is affects the vision of oncoming road users. I posted the same thing yesterday in a thread about rear lights, flashing and super bright do not go well together, a view which many friends and family I speak to agree with. Some cyclists insists it's a good thing, that way they see you, but people are perfectly capable of seeing something without being dazzled by it.

While that may be true of some people I have learned the hard way that some other people would miss a ******* blazing comet in the passenger seat beside them with a full or orchestra playing. Sadly it's the latter that will run you over on a SMIDSY and IME the more lights and formats and the brighter the better. If it isn't needed for some drivers like you and your friends and family no problem this is about addressing the need to stay safe when sharing the roads with the worst most inattentive drivers not the good or the average.

totally agree with wishitwasallflat cos imho the standard of driving in this country is piss poor.the more lights the better for me.

diy

flashers have to flash between 1/ps and 4/ps. Personally I use a constant light in the form of a pair of torches on Low setting and a button flasher. The torches act as my headlights and a pair reduced shadowing significantly. The flasher helps people see I'm a bike. Really bright lights make it hard to judge distance and since a lot of people have crap eye sight you also need to think about looking like a car or motorbike in the distance.

You really don't need the flasher to be very bright. Ideally a bit of light reflecting back at you will help too particularly if you are wearing high vis.

There has been a lot of research in to this for emergency services scene management.

Some other things that are often overlooked is making sure you come to a stop at junctions etc at an angle to the road, i.e. not parallel. Massively helps the brain work out you aren't moving. it is partly why emergency services vehicles park at angles.

homers_double

I have a headlight and just bought a flasher for an additional, however a cyclist on my way home (driving) from work last night was lit up with what appeared to be a very small match.

I saw his rear light quite easily as a rider myself I find my self quite concious of pedal powered commuters but a glance in my side mirrow showed him very poorly lit.

A car coming out of a junction might not have spotted him.

ai_1

A lot of good points made in the posts so far I think.

I agree with the view that the common very bright, tight beam flasher is a poor approach. A good quality front light with decent brightness and a well shaped beam that won't blind oncoming traffic paired with wide angle fairly rapid flasher that's not going to blind anyone is, IMO the best approach. If you only ride in well lit urban areas you may be able to dispense with the main front light and just use the flasher but I'd rather have both. A light that spills some illumination onto the rider is not a bad idea either. Even a small amount of light makes the rider themselves much more visible if they're wearing bright or hi-viz clothing and makes it easier for others to recognise it's a cyclist and determine direction, distance and speed all of which adds to safety.

In contrast, I've seen a scary number of cyclists recently riding in urban areas after dark with absolutely no lights and in most cases no obvious reflectors and dark clothing too. Clearly they have absolutely no imagination! Many of them seem to just move to the footpaths after dark and think that's acceptable while others just stay on the road oblivious to the danger.

grahamcp

I seem to be in a minority but on dark lanes I find passing other cyclists with flashing lights to be really distracting and annoying - the really bright ones being especially bad. Luckily my commute is pretty low on traffic so maybe it makes more sense on busier roads or urban areas with street lights. I have a 2nd rear light which I can put in a pulsing mode so movement can be seen but it's not flashing on and off, which I think is a lot better for other road users.