Dont know how to feel about this ( Lee Rigby Murder)

tim_wand
tim_wand Posts: 2,552
edited November 2014 in The bottom bracket
Obviously totally appalled and outraged by this Murder, that is not in the slightest what I am having a moral dilemma about!

Lee Rigby murder: Internet firm failed to report Michael Adebowale's online chats about killing a soldier

This is the headline being carried by the Telegraph.

Is this M15 attempting to support Teresa May's extension of anti terror laws to monitor all our activities on line.

Is it necessary. I am sure the reach of GCHQ and USAF/ RAF Menwith Hill is already beyond our comprehension.

Can we really make internet service providers responsible for every rant that's on the internet ( I know Ric and the gang are trying hard when it comes to protecting commuters on here) but really is this desirable or feasible?

If I thought for one minute that Lee Rigby or any one else's murder could have been prevented by this , then maybe its a price I would be willing to pay as If you've nothing to hide you've nothing to fear.

The cynic in me however believes this is another attempt by Government to scare us into accepting the erosion of our civil liberties and the continued funding of Militarism a la " Hunt for WMD's" " War on Terror" and "Homeland security".

Comments

  • orraloon
    orraloon Posts: 13,227
    Is there an election any time soon?
  • tim_wand
    tim_wand Posts: 2,552
    orraloon wrote:
    Is there an election any time soon?

    Exactly my point, Political gain being made from Societal Insecurities.

    I would Imagine that Mark Carney will be banging on about Worldwide Recession soon and George Osborne will be along to show us that the Tories are the only ones who can be trusted to run the economy.

    They seem to be losing the argument on Immigration , God knows what scare mongering they are going to come up with to regain the upper hand on that one.

    Telegraph headlines of Ebola infected ISIS terrorists returning from Syria via the port of Rochester plotting Dirty bomb attack!
  • veronese68
    veronese68 Posts: 27,813
    Civil liberties or total protection from a police state in which you're not allowed to voice a dissenting opinion. Somewhere there is a reasonable middle ground. We are somewhere in that middle ground. Occasionally some will slip through the net and their will be outrage. Occasionally an innocent person may be targeted wrongly and their will be outrage. As far as the security services are concerned it's a case of damned if you do and damned if you don't.
    Kinesis Pro6
    Marin Nail Trail
    Cotic Solaris
  • plodder73
    plodder73 Posts: 326
    Veronese68 wrote:
    Civil liberties or total protection from a police state in which you're not allowed to voice a dissenting opinion. Somewhere there is a reasonable middle ground. We are somewhere in that middle ground. Occasionally some will slip through the net and their will be outrage. Occasionally an innocent person may be targeted wrongly and their will be outrage. As far as the security services are concerned it's a case of damned if you do and damned if you don't.


    Well said. It was only yesterday Teresa May was banging on about how many terrorist plots the police had foiled. This was in her attempt to justify new legislation, which I have no problem with, if needed. Be nice if they acknowledged what a marvelous job the police and security service do 99% of the time.
  • RDW
    RDW Posts: 1,900
    Can we really make internet service providers responsible for every rant that's on the internet ( I know Ric and the gang are trying hard when it comes to protecting commuters on here) but really is this desirable or feasible?

    The 'former global counter-terrorism director of MI6', who ought to know, thinks this is unreasonable:

    http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014 ... ook-unfair
  • VTech
    VTech Posts: 4,736
    Its an impossible task.
    The problem is that anyone with even minor skills can mask their location when typing online, they can also mimic the I.P of another user with ease. Even if it were possible, how would they be able to manage the amounts we are talking about ? even in the UK we have 150 million Facebook posts per day and thats without twitter and forums etc.

    Its politics being used for personal gain which is meant to fool the foolish into thinking it is possible and something that can be done.
    Living MY dream.
  • rolf_f
    rolf_f Posts: 16,015
    Facebook should be ashamed. After all, it's not as though there are any other demented idiots on Facebook posting fantasy rubbish 1000 times an hour thus making it difficult to spot when a genuine psychopath is posting about something they actually intend to do.
    Faster than a tent.......
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    Security forces are ultimately there to protect freedoms (of which privacy is, IMO, one) rather than limit them.

    Appreciate it's not an easy feat to do that, but I'd rather they have a budget double the size than have freedom limiting laws.
    _
  • blackpoolkev
    blackpoolkev Posts: 474
    I have every sympathy with all of our armed services being sent to - defend our country/pursue ideologies on behalf of our elected, egotistical representatives. I can't help feeling that it's more of the latter.
    If I was stood in the street watching a bunch of strangers knocking ten bells out of each other for reasons that I couldn't appreciate - would I feel inclined to gather up all my mates and knock some sense into them? The short answer is no. As much as I feel that what they are doing to each other could be dealt with in a more constructive manner, I'm only putting myself in the firing line by getting involved - chances are that they might turn on me.
  • Undertones
    Undertones Posts: 52
    blackpoolkev wrote:
    I have every sympathy with all of our armed services being sent to - defend our country/pursue ideologies on behalf of our elected, egotistical representatives. I can't help feeling that it's more of the latter.
    If I was stood in the street watching a bunch of strangers knocking ten bells out of each other for reasons that I couldn't appreciate - would I feel inclined to gather up all my mates and knock some sense into them? The short answer is no. As much as I feel that what they are doing to each other could be dealt with in a more constructive manner, I'm only putting myself in the firing line by getting involved - chances are that they might turn on me.

    What if you saw a bunch of strangers beating the Sh4t out of a bunch of helpless people/stoning women to death?

    Just a shame recent governments can't distinguish between breaking up a fight and getting stuck in.
  • blackpoolkev
    blackpoolkev Posts: 474
    Undertones wrote:

    What if you saw a bunch of strangers beating the Sh4t out of a bunch of helpless people/stoning women to death?

    If these people were thousands of miles away and had been doing the the same thing for thousands of years - I'd leave them to it, because I don't know the answer to their problems. Cynical - absolutely, but killing them all isn't really a solution.
    How would they feel about a bunch of strangers liberating the sh4t out of them?
  • VTech
    VTech Posts: 4,736
    When in rome.

    The problem is that we are hated globally, I have definitely seen an issue growing due to the fact that my British Passport used to be a guarantee to go wherever I like, now I have to get a VISA to go to India (I didn't pass and so I couldn't go last year).
    Also for Russia and America over the past few years.

    We (as a country) simply make trouble globally. People are getting sick of it.
    Living MY dream.
  • rolf_f
    rolf_f Posts: 16,015
    VTech wrote:
    When in rome.

    The problem is that we are hated globally, I have definitely seen an issue growing due to the fact that my British Passport used to be a guarantee to go wherever I like.

    It's probably just you..... :wink:

    Not found my passport failing to get me anywhere and neither have I noticed an increase in how often I get stoned by foreigners when abroad!
    Faster than a tent.......
  • tim_wand
    tim_wand Posts: 2,552
    Rolf F wrote:
    VTech wrote:
    When in rome.

    The problem is that we are hated globally, I have definitely seen an issue growing due to the fact that my British Passport used to be a guarantee to go wherever I like.

    It's probably just you..... :wink:

    Not found my passport failing to get me anywhere and neither have I noticed an increase in how often I get stoned by foreigners when abroad!

    Have you been over the border to the Red Rose County though Rolf! They ll stone ya if your a true Yorkie.
  • Kendoddsdadsdeaddog
    Kendoddsdadsdeaddog Posts: 12
    I doubt the security services would have the manpower to deal with every crank conversation that comes up on their radar.
  • finchy
    finchy Posts: 6,686
    Kendoddsdadsdeaddog wrote:
    I doubt the security services would have the manpower to deal with every crank conversation that comes up on their radar.

    BR would be f**ked if they did. :lol:

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