Campagnolo Khamsin rim alternative.

rolf_f
rolf_f Posts: 16,015
edited November 2014 in Road buying advice
I have a front Khamsin that can't have long left for the front rim. Its 24 hole so I may as well keep the original hub and find a new rim for it. Any recommendations for something that has a similar profile (so it still matches the back which is fine), has a decent amount of metal to the braking surface and is a decent price?
Faster than a tent.......

Comments

  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,312
    One between Archetype or Velocity A 23 hopefully should fit... problem is radial builds are not very forgiving in terms of ERD
    left the forum March 2023
  • cycleclinic
    cycleclinic Posts: 6,865
    Khamsin front wheel 24 spokes. How old is it? They are lower spoke count than that now.
    http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.
  • keezx
    keezx Posts: 1,322
    Mavic CXP 22 is a similar profile but probably not available in 24....
    I have something like that laying with 24H (marked MOST Duell) , but silver anodized.
  • rolf_f
    rolf_f Posts: 16,015
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    One between Archetype or Velocity A 23 hopefully should fit... problem is radial builds are not very forgiving in terms of ERD

    Why is radial less forgiving than a crossed pattern?
    thecycleclinic wrote:
    Khamsin front wheel 24 spokes. How old is it? They are lower spoke count than that now.

    Well, clearly old enough to be 24 spoke!
    Faster than a tent.......
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,312
    Rolf F wrote:
    Why is radial less forgiving than a crossed pattern?

    Because if you increase the ERD by 10 mm you need 5 mm longer spokes, while in a 3 cross pattern the spoke comes in at an angle and you can get away with 3-4... it's just Pitagora innit? :wink:
    left the forum March 2023
  • fleshtuxedo
    fleshtuxedo Posts: 1,858
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    Rolf F wrote:
    Why is radial less forgiving than a crossed pattern?

    Because if you increase the ERD by 10 mm you need 5 mm longer spokes, while in a 3 cross pattern the spoke comes in at an angle and you can get away with 3-4... it's just Pitagora innit? :wink:

    Don't understand. A crossed spoke is longer than radial for any given ERD. Any change in ERD will therefore be proportionately bigger in either pattern, so the mm difference in spoke length would be bigger in a cross spoked wheel.

    You've built more wheels than me of course.
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,312
    FleshTuxedo wrote:
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    Rolf F wrote:
    Why is radial less forgiving than a crossed pattern?

    Because if you increase the ERD by 10 mm you need 5 mm longer spokes, while in a 3 cross pattern the spoke comes in at an angle and you can get away with 3-4... it's just Pitagora innit? :wink:

    Don't understand. A crossed spoke is longer than radial for any given ERD. Any change in ERD will therefore be proportionately bigger in either pattern, so the mm difference in spoke length would be bigger in a cross spoked wheel.

    You've built more wheels than me of course.

    As the rim gets smaller in ERD, the angle gets steeper per equal cross pattern and that partially compensates for the shorter length required... that doesn't happen in radial spoking, of course
    left the forum March 2023
  • fleshtuxedo
    fleshtuxedo Posts: 1,858
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    FleshTuxedo wrote:
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    Rolf F wrote:
    Why is radial less forgiving than a crossed pattern?

    Because if you increase the ERD by 10 mm you need 5 mm longer spokes, while in a 3 cross pattern the spoke comes in at an angle and you can get away with 3-4... it's just Pitagora innit? :wink:

    Don't understand. A crossed spoke is longer than radial for any given ERD. Any change in ERD will therefore be proportionately bigger in either pattern, so the mm difference in spoke length would be bigger in a cross spoked wheel.

    You've built more wheels than me of course.

    As the rim gets smaller in ERD, the angle gets steeper per equal cross pattern and that partially compensates for the shorter length required... that doesn't happen in radial spoking, of course

    Got it. I think :lol:
  • rolf_f
    rolf_f Posts: 16,015
    As Ugo says, it's Pitagora.....

    Imagine the ultimate extreme non radial lacing which would have the spoke come out of the wheel tangentially (!) - in which case the spoke length would be entirely irrelevant. You might need access to the fifth dimension though to thread the spokes........

    I thought spokes could be had in enough length options to cover this though. Does it help if I mention that the spoke holes in the hub are at a radius of 2cm? That seems unexpectedly tidy and sensible.......
    Faster than a tent.......
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,312
    Rolf F wrote:
    I thought spokes could be had in enough length options to cover this though.

    You said you want to keep the existing ones...
    left the forum March 2023
  • rolf_f
    rolf_f Posts: 16,015
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    Rolf F wrote:
    I thought spokes could be had in enough length options to cover this though.

    You said you want to keep the existing ones...

    Eye test for Ugo! No, I assumed that retaining the original spokes would be a tightwad too far. The wheel has a good 15k miles on it so I guess even for a non spoke breaker like me that that would be enough for them. They are chunky though - seem to be plain gauge 2mm so presumably that means that a) replacements will be cheap and b) maybe they are chunky enough to re-use.......
    Faster than a tent.......
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,312
    Rolf F wrote:
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    Rolf F wrote:
    I thought spokes could be had in enough length options to cover this though.

    You said you want to keep the existing ones...

    Eye test for Ugo! No, I assumed that retaining the original spokes would be a tightwad too far. The wheel has a good 15k miles on it so I guess even for a non spoke breaker like me that that would be enough for them. They are chunky though - seem to be plain gauge 2mm so presumably that means that a) replacements will be cheap and b) maybe they are chunky enough to re-use.......

    To be honest it is quicker to rebuild than it is to re-rim, so get new spokes... I thought they were straight pull, hence the confusion about keep/replace. J bend are cheap as chips
    left the forum March 2023
  • rolf_f
    rolf_f Posts: 16,015
    Nooo, cheapy things! I'll think more about the rims. The Archetype won't be a match for the existing rear wheel. The A23 might though really I'd prefer something cheaper. The Khamsins are absolutely fine functionally and only about £60 a wheel so using a £50 rim seems a little extravagant!
    Faster than a tent.......
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,312
    Rolf F wrote:
    Nooo, cheapy things! I'll think more about the rims. The Archetype won't be a match for the existing rear wheel. The A23 might though really I'd prefer something cheaper. The Khamsins are absolutely fine functionally and only about £60 a wheel so using a £50 rim seems a little extravagant!


    Get something from the cheaper Kinlin range... XR 240/270 or something...
    left the forum March 2023
  • rolf_f
    rolf_f Posts: 16,015
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    Rolf F wrote:
    Nooo, cheapy things! I'll think more about the rims. The Archetype won't be a match for the existing rear wheel. The A23 might though really I'd prefer something cheaper. The Khamsins are absolutely fine functionally and only about £60 a wheel so using a £50 rim seems a little extravagant!


    Get something from the cheaper Kinlin range... XR 240/270 or something...

    I'd thought about those - I was happy enough with how my XR200s were made. But I think the 240/270 are, like the 200s, very light and presumably thin on the braking track. This would want to last a five figure mileage in all weathers. That was about the price point I was thinking of though.
    Faster than a tent.......

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