10 mile tt advice and bike improvements

dombhoy

In the new year I would like to start doing some local 10 mile tts and was wondering what improvemnts i could make to myself/the bike to maximise performance on a budget of around £100 I havent bought anything yet but will obviously need clip on tt bars and if anyone has some they would reccomend that would be helpful. But also if anyone has any advice regarding training or how to prepare on the day of the event. My current bike is a 2012 caad10 ultrega.

madasahattersley

Clip on TT bars is all you need for now. Nothing else will give you a large improvement in times, other than your fitness. When you've topped 25 minutes (adjust based on age), decided you like time trialling and are prepared to invest the money in it (and have a few thousand quid burning a hole in your pocket) THEN it might be worth looking into aero equipment. And not a moment before.

Matthewfalle

Alternatively, if you like it, don't care about people saying "ooooh you have to it in x,y,z time to be worthy, have a bit of spare cash/find a bargain/realise that you work damn hard and want to enjoy your spare time then do as you wish.

Tri bars in the sales, aero wheels in sales (a set of P/X 80s - aero, tt friendly and you can still use them to bomb around on), get your position sorted, get a funny tt specific hat in the sales.

All of these will help.

Stuff the people who say you to have earn it - and not a moment before.

simon_masterson

He might struggle to get a set of 80mm wheels for £100.

But the main thing you need is the tri bars. They don't need to be posh ones - if your road bike fits you well, you won't get an ideal position on them anyway.

After that, if you don't have any race cut kit, buying some or a skinsuit will make a big difference (if possibly not while it's cold), as will some overshoes. Skinsuits can be had very cheaply on eBay, both new and used.

Don't worry about not having the fancy wheels; there are a few entries on the list of aero savings above them, and it would be a much better use of money to buy a proper TT frame and use some regular wheels on it to start with than to buy 80mm wheels for your road bike.

As Mr. Hattersley notes, it's the fitness that you need to work on, and 25-24 minutes is a good target to aim for.

buckmulligan

As always Luke speaks wise words.

As for clip on recommendations, I'd recommend the 3T 'pro' alloy set, they are ace. They have a relatively small stack height and the extensions mount out front so you can get a pretty low position compared to some others. They're around £100 new for clamps and bars, but sets will crop up on eBay every now and then for easily half of that.

You'll likely need to slam your saddle forward as well as adjusting the height a fraction. As you get used to the new position you'll want to consider lowering the bars a bit to get a more aero position, especially if you're used to a low position in the drops already.

Good luck with the races!

madasahattersley

Matthewfalle wrote:

Alternatively, if you like it, don't care about people saying "ooooh you have to it in x,y,z time to be worthy, have a bit of spare cash/find a bargain/realise that you work damn hard and want to enjoy your spare time then do as you wish.

Tri bars in the sales, aero wheels in sales (a set of P/X 80s - aero, tt friendly and you can still use them to bomb around on), get your position sorted, get a funny tt specific hat in the sales.

All of these will help.

Stuff the people who say you to have earn it - and not a moment before.

That old passive aggressive attitude still plagues you I see! Thanks for misconstruing my words, but just to clarify;

I'm not saying you have to be fast before you can buy the gear, just that the most important thing is getting to standard before spending loads of cash. That's speaking as someone with a £5k time trial bike - I'm not one of those "it's not about the bike" types, but we're talking about helping the OP get into TTing, and the best way to do that is not to spunk money at it before trying it. The OP is right to set a £100 budget.

Yes there are people who buy top of the range stuff way before they've found their feet in the sport and whether you or whatever moral code you live by like it or not, they are a laughing stock.

Matthewfalle

madasahattersley wrote:

Matthewfalle wrote:

Alternatively, if you like it, don't care about people saying "ooooh you have to it in x,y,z time to be worthy, have a bit of spare cash/find a bargain/realise that you work damn hard and want to enjoy your spare time then do as you wish.

Tri bars in the sales, aero wheels in sales (a set of P/X 80s - aero, tt friendly and you can still use them to bomb around on), get your position sorted, get a funny tt specific hat in the sales.

All of these will help.

Stuff the people who say you to have earn it - and not a moment before.

That old passive aggressive attitude still plagues you I see! Thanks for misconstruing my words, but just to clarify;

I'm not saying you have to be fast before you can buy the gear, just that the most important thing is getting to standard before spending loads of cash. That's speaking as someone with a £5k time trial bike - I'm not one of those "it's not about the bike" types, but we're talking about helping the OP get into TTing, and the best way to do that is not to spunk money at it before trying it. The OP is right to set a £100 budget.

Yes there are people who buy top of the range stuff way before they've found their feet in the sport and whether you or whatever moral code you live by like it or not, they are a laughing stock.

Well not really.

You condescendingly told him that unless he reached a certain time "and not a moment before" (thank you Fabian) that he couldn't buy kit that he liked.

Ridiculous.

I know plenty of people who aren't very fast by any standards but enjoy their cycling, work hard and want nice things. I have no problem with that. If you want to look at them as a laughing stock from your hallowed your ivory garrett go ahead, but that about sort of sums up why people generally don't like the average club cyclist.

And anyhow, if you want to get onto the subject of cycling laughing stocks, well.............

ai_1

dombhoy wrote:

In the new year I would like to start doing some local 10 mile tts and was wondering what improvemnts i could make to myself/the bike to maximise performance on a budget of around £100 I havent bought anything yet but will obviously need clip on tt bars and if anyone has some they would reccomend that would be helpful. But also if anyone has any advice regarding training or how to prepare on the day of the event. My current bike is a 2012 caad10 ultrega.

When I got a set of clip-ons a while back the best value I could find was the Deda Parabolica bars. Ribble seemed to have them on perpetual sale considerably cheaper than anywhere else (I think they were £50-£60) and you had a choice of straight, single bend or double bend - I went for the single bend type. They were still selling them at a good price last time I looked a couple of months ago. They also had FF forward seatposts at a good price which I also bought. As Simon mentioned, you may not be able to get a good position on a road bike if it's a good fit but I think I've managed a pretty reasonable setup on my old bike which was tad big for me. With a slightly longer stem and the forward seatpost it seems to give a pretty reasonable position on the extensions....but I'm no expert.

slowbike

token clip on bars can be had for ~£30

This is what I used on my converted road bike for my first year of TTs - it really does make a difference. And it's not difficult to put some bar end shifters in them (leave your existing STIs on the dropbars for braking!) giving you a huge advantage.
That with an aero helmet, tight fitting clothing and sorting out your position will get you a long way - for me it was a difference of just over 29 minutes to mid 25 minutes (sporting course). Oh, and the wheelset I used was my old Fulcrum Racing Ts - nothing special there either.

I think you're going about this the right way - limited budget and see if you like it. Yes, some people do have cash to splash, but once they've got all the gear they've still got to get themselves up to speed. I have no problem with people who want to buy the best - but I do find it funny when all they can talk about is their gear and ignore any sort of advice on training - I used to get this a lot in dinghy racing when I was a kid - Mummy and Daddy bought them brand new boat and/or sails - I still thrashed them in a 30yo tub because my crew and I knew how to sail. I've heard similar at our road club where a youth is talking about the thousands he's saving to buy a particular TT bike because it's fast - yet he's not putting in the base training to build his power. It's a shame because he and his mate could easily thrash me (20+ years older) - if they put the training in.
Anyway, that's rambling on.

Clip on bars, aero helmet & tight fitting jersey&bibshorts - that'll see you ok for your first few sessions - then take it from there.

cougie

When do the 10m TT's start ? Isnt it usually April or so ?

Definitely tribars is the best start for you - then a good fitting skinsuit. Thats your budget there I think.

If you can use it - go for trainerroad through the winter and you'll be pinging.

CiB

I've got a spare pair of clip-on bars somewhere I think. I'l PM you tonight once I've checked. 20 quid on them leaves you a lot more to spend on other stuff.

gloomyandy

You might want to consider getting a second seat post and saddle as well as the bars (2nd hand prices can be pretty low). Last year I rode a number of evening 10s and one open 10. All of this was on my road bike, the last few rides with clip on bars. One thing that was a bit of pain was having to mess around adding the bars and moving saddle etc. to switch my bike between tt mode and road mode. For next year I'm getting a tt frame and building it up. However a number of club mates suggested that getting a seat post and saddle would have made switching over much easier. Always worth asking club mates about things like clip on bars as a lot of people may have a set used only a few times. What part of the country are you, if you are near Leeds you can have mine!

I found the evening 10 scene very welcoming and will be riding more next year. Lots of folks there with high end bikes and all the gear, but they seemed very happy to help out someone just starting out. My first ever ride was just under 30 minutes (which I was very pleased with) and I thought I was going to die on the last mile or so! My final ride was 24.10 and I thought I was going to die from the turn onwards! One of the things that I found made a huge difference was getting my warm up at least half right (I'm still learning). I find I need to be able to get my heart rate up pretty quickly or I feel terrible for the first half of the course as well! Have fun...

mpatts

This is what I do:

I did my first few TT's this year. I decided I was looking for improvement in myself, rather than joining the arms race. I'm never going to be as fast as if I had a TT bike etc, but to be honest I enjoy it all the same, and for me it makes the improvement less clouded - any time (relative) improvement is due to my pacing or fitness - the former as important as the latter.

All good fun.

iron-clover

Yup, I agree with the last post.
I've finished my second real TT season this year, so I can still remember starting out fairly well.

I got myself a pair of second hand bars off ebay to put on my normal road bike (although the Token ones on Wiggle are about the same price, a little high but you can always slam your stem) put them on a few weeks before the weekly TTs started up and got some practice in on them. You definitely want to start with them as wide as you can and get practice in, as for the first few rides you'll probably find yourself going slower as you get used to the odd controls.

After that, a cheap skinsuit will help especially if the jersey you have at the moment flaps a bit- all but 3 TTs in my first season were in my normal jersey, and the shoulders would flap when up to speed in the tuck so that saved a bit of time. However, even just through getting out ant riding, doing some intervals and then just riding the different courses every week or so saw more improvement than any equipment purchases have since made. Adding new equipment also makes it difficult to compare your performance against older efforts.

If you've been really bitten by the bug then a second hand aero helmet would go well- you'll often come across older ones being sold on by club members, and although they may be more fiddly to set up than the new ones they give pretty much the same advantage.

If you find you can't get into an ideal tuck on your road bike then you can invest in a TT bike/ frame- again second hand models are almost as good as the modern ones, as weight isn't normally a big issue and the most important aspect is the geometry rather than aero shaping. But if you do have an aggressive road bike already then the savings will probably be minimal.

Last up on the list would be wheels- these are the most expensive for any of the gains. I've never used a disk wheel or anything over 30mm in a flat TT and I can't say I felt disadvantaged that much. One friend reckons he saves 40s on a 25mile TT with a disk- I thought I gained most of that just by shaving my legs! (Your legs do generate way more resistance than wheels though tbf)
Really I think they start to make a bigger impact when the speeds are fairly high- the other kit such as skinsuit and helmet make a bigger difference overall.

But definitely for your fist season you'll see much bigger improvements through training and just racing the events so you get a good feel for them!

simon_masterson

iron-clover wrote:

Yup, I agree with the last post.
I've finished my second real TT season this year, so I can still remember starting out fairly well.

I got myself a pair of second hand bars off ebay to put on my normal road bike (although the Token ones on Wiggle are about the same price, a little high but you can always slam your stem) put them on a few weeks before the weekly TTs started up and got some practice in on them. You definitely want to start with them as wide as you can and get practice in, as for the first few rides you'll probably find yourself going slower as you get used to the odd controls.

After that, a cheap skinsuit will help especially if the jersey you have at the moment flaps a bit- all but 3 TTs in my first season were in my normal jersey, and the shoulders would flap when up to speed in the tuck so that saved a bit of time. However, even just through getting out ant riding, doing some intervals and then just riding the different courses every week or so saw more improvement than any equipment purchases have since made. Adding new equipment also makes it difficult to compare your performance against older efforts.

If you've been really bitten by the bug then a second hand aero helmet would go well- you'll often come across older ones being sold on by club members, and although they may be more fiddly to set up than the new ones they give pretty much the same advantage.

If you find you can't get into an ideal tuck on your road bike then you can invest in a TT bike/ frame- again second hand models are almost as good as the modern ones, as weight isn't normally a big issue and the most important aspect is the geometry rather than aero shaping. But if you do have an aggressive road bike already then the savings will probably be minimal.

Last up on the list would be wheels- these are the most expensive for any of the gains. I've never used a disk wheel or anything over 30mm in a flat TT and I can't say I felt disadvantaged that much. One friend reckons he saves 40s on a 25mile TT with a disk- I thought I gained most of that just by shaving my legs! (Your legs do generate way more resistance than wheels though tbf)
Really I think they start to make a bigger impact when the speeds are fairly high- the other kit such as skinsuit and helmet make a bigger difference overall.

But definitely for your fist season you'll see much bigger improvements through training and just racing the events so you get a good feel for them!

Great post.

supermurph09

I think one thing to note is that you can do pretty well picking up 2nd hand TT stuff, that may help you.

madasahattersley

Mod Edit, put the hand bags away and take the aggression out on your bike.

Anonymous

Deep section wheels do make nice noises though and probably have a psychological advantage (due to the noise) too lol.
I mainly got them to try out tubs, and I really like the tubs.

I then started using latex tubes for normal road rides on my clincher wheels. They would be an inexpensive thing to try for TT's.

Other than bars and latex tubes I would concentrate on improving your times without buying other stuff.
Wait until your times plateau and you are sure you like it.

I found it very addictive and that my times improved dramatically at first.
I would not worry about what your actual times are before spending cash (as long as you like it and have the spare cash).

I have a second normal road bike that I use as a TT bike in the TT season, and a winter road bike in the winter. Works quite well and a bit more cost effective than having a proper TT bike.

A Garmin with virtual partner is good for racing yourself too.

Make sure you warm up on the day, but other than that just give it a go and see how you get on.

dombhoy

Thanks yeah i will definately look at getting tt clip on bars and then possibly a skinsuit also how does everyone train for tts - 10 fast rides or longer distances with fast intervals

Matthewfalle

Carbon zone 50/88 carbon wheels - £169 on the 'bay at the moment.

Deep enough for good aero and noise, shallow enough not to be too impractical and to use everyday.

Buy them. Do it. Do it. Do it.

simon_masterson

Matthewfalle wrote:

Carbon zone 50/88 carbon wheels - £169 on the 'bay at the moment.

Deep enough for good aero and noise, shallow enough not to be too impractical and to use everyday.

Buy them. Do it. Do it. Do it.

So you're suggesting something that's nearly double the stated budget and a very poor use of it?

southdownswolf

Actually, by the time you add on the £50 postage, it is well over double the budget....

imposter2.0

southdownswolf wrote:

Actually, by the time you add on the £50 postage, it is well over double the budget....

Don't forget to add the cost of tubs as well...

fish156

dombhoy wrote:

In the new year I would like to start doing some local 10 mile tts and was wondering what improvemnts i could make to myself/the bike to maximise performance on a budget of around £100 I havent bought anything yet but will obviously need clip on tt bars and if anyone has some they would reccomend that would be helpful. But also if anyone has any advice regarding training or how to prepare on the day of the event. My current bike is a 2012 caad10 ultrega.

My advice is different to others. Don't buy clip-on TT bars, save your money. Time-trial on a pure road bike. Quite a few TTs have a separate category, including prizes.
Once you're properly hooked, and if you've sufficient funds, then maybe spend on a proper TT bike rather than budget halfway house kit that will eventually become redundant once you go for a full TT rig.

That's what I did anyway.

Matthewfalle

Simon Masterson wrote:

Matthewfalle wrote:

Carbon zone 50/88 carbon wheels - £169 on the 'bay at the moment.

Deep enough for good aero and noise, shallow enough not to be too impractical and to use everyday.

Buy them. Do it. Do it. Do it.

So you're suggesting something that's nearly double the stated budget and a very poor use of it?

Nah - just advocating frivolous spending really.

Best spend of the allocated cash is second hand/massively discounted in the sales bits as above but that's far too serious.

napoleond

I'd buy a used twice Rudy Project Wingspan TT helmet, there's someone selling one in the classifieds, may be worth making them a cheeky offer, you'd be surprised what might get accepted.

Anonymous

Do it, do it, do it.

buckmulligan

Matthewfalle wrote:

Nah - just advocating frivolous spending really.

Best spend of the allocated cash is second hand/massively discounted in the sales bits as above but that's far too serious.

You sound like a complete tool.

iron-clover

Going back to training, the absolute best I found when starting out was to look up the course(s) that were going to be used in the weekly TTs, put them into the Garmin as a course if I couldn't exactly remember the turn points and then ride that as hard as I thought I could go. That would basically be an interval that lasts around 30mins, and you can use riding out as the warm up and back as cool down.

After you've done a couple you'll have a feel for how much effort you should be pushing so you know you'll be completely spent just as you hit the finish line, and as a bonus you'll remember the course! That's probably the more important part as often the local TTs won't have mashals or signs at the turns, so you need to know where you're going!

If you can't get to a local course easily, find a nice and smooth road without too many sharp bends or lumps and just go up and down on that. I found 5 minute efforts (~2-3miles inc. the rest period) a little above TT pace were quite good with a couple of minutes recovery in between, and do between 3 and 5 depending on where you are in training. You can do some very targeted efforts on a turbo if you have one but in the early days I think its worthwhile getting out on the road so you get used to the extra speed and controlling the bike under such effort which helps a lot when it comes to a real TT.

Matthewfalle

BuckMulligan wrote:

Matthewfalle wrote:

Nah - just advocating frivolous spending really.

Best spend of the allocated cash is second hand/massively discounted in the sales bits as above but that's far too serious.

You sound like a complete tool.

Thank you. Coming from someone of your cerebral/social standing I take that as a compliment - particularly when looking down on you. Besides, a tool is useful sometimes. You? Well, I'm not saying anything, but ..........

Have a lovely evening.

simon_masterson

You're not trying to turn this into another silly wind-up like your team kit thread, I trust...