Brake caliper upgrade

Spatulala

I was hoping this year would bring a much longed for new bike, but I've been press ganged into diverting the funds into a trip to the Etape with some extra riding days either side of the event.

So, instead of an n+1, the next bit of my trusty old Trek Pilot 2.1 (2010) I'd like to upgrade is the brakes. The Tektros aren't great, so I was thinking I'd switch em for some 105 calipers (which get great reviews).

Couple of questions. Are the 5800 brakes compatible with older 105 STIs? Are they a worthwhile improvement over 5700s? Is there any issue putting mudguards on with them (when I finally buy a new Summer best and relegate the Trek to Winter steed)?

Thanks

Spatulala

Ok so after a spot of Googling, I'm assuming I can only put long drop calipers on, which rules out 105s?

If that's the case, are the shimano long drops a worthwhile upgrade over my Tektros? If so, are the 650s a worthwhile step up over the 451s?

Thanks (again)

dj58

I haven't used them myself but the 650 model is Ultegra quality in long drop so if you can stretch your budget consider them.

kajjal

My wife's bike had Tektro's which were poor and we upgraded them to r650's which are a lot better. Never used 451's.

lakesluddite

I swapped out Tektro long drop for Shimano R650's some time ago on my winter bike (just on the front) - the difference was night and day, a massive improvement. I wouldn't hesitate in recommending them.

I put the slightly cheaper Tiagra 451 on the back, and this seems better than the tektro as well. I think either would be an improvement, I think the difference(650 over 451) is the weight - or at least thats what I was told in the shop.

keef66

I have the cheaper Shimano 450 variant on my Racelight Tk and they are pretty good. I think the biggest difference is that they come with the all-in one moulded Tiagra type brake blocks, rather than the metal cartridge / inserts with the 650's, 105, Ultegra etc.

In the dark I can't tell them apart from the Tiagra calipers on the other bike.

When the blocks need replacing I'll swap them for some 105 cartridges / holders, see if there's any improvement to be had. And after that I may try some of the KoolStop / Swiss Stop inserts frequently mentioned on here.

darkhairedlord

I use the 451's as they have the correct pull ratio for 5700, 6700 and later sti's, not that it makes much difference!
I have some decent swistop pads on and are bearing up well, the 451's have not a sniff of corrosion and look like new.

keef66

darkhairedlord wrote:

I use the 451's as they have the correct pull ratio for 5700, 6700 and later sti's, not that it makes much difference!
I have some decent swistop pads on and are bearing up well, the 451's have not a sniff of corrosion and look like new.

Should add that my 450's are coming up to their 8th winter and also look unblemished.

Chris James

I have the Sora long drops on one bike and some Tektro long drops on another.

The Tektros have Koolstop salmon cartridge pads, and the Sora calipers have Ultegra cartridge pads (originally had Sora one piece pads, obviously).

I don't think there is much, if any difference between the calipers. They are, after all, just bent beams pulled by a cable.

There IS a big difference in the pads. Koolstop Salmon are better than Ultegra which in turn are a LOT better than the one piece Sora rubbish.

I would recommend saving your money and buying some koolstop pads, with metal holders (if your current blocks do not already have metal holders).

Spatulala

Ok thanks! I'm going to try the 650s (£49 a pair) I think, will upgrade the pads to Salmon and keep the originals as spares.

simon_masterson

Chris James wrote:

I have the Sora long drops on one bike and some Tektro long drops on another.

The Tektros have Koolstop salmon cartridge pads, and the Sora calipers have Ultegra cartridge pads (originally had Sora one piece pads, obviously).

I don't think there is much, if any difference between the calipers. They are, after all, just bent beams pulled by a cable.

There IS a big difference in the pads. Koolstop Salmon are better than Ultegra which in turn are a LOT better than the one piece Sora rubbish.

I would recommend saving your money and buying some koolstop pads, with metal holders (if your current blocks do not already have metal holders).

This. Brakes are primitive friction devices, and rely on the surfaces involved to work well. My Tektro R737s have always worked well, even with stock pads. Whether doing alpine descents or commuting in rush hour traffic, you don't have to have posh calipers. Nicer brakes should modulate better, but if you can't stop your bike, your brakes are unfit for purpose.

Spatulala

Damn I'm easily swayed. Will try putting salmons on my Tektros and see what difference it makes. They're certainly fit for purpose, I just feel they could be better. They've got me down the Galibier, Alpe, Glandon etc without incident. Although I did overcook it coming down Peak Hill once and was very grateful there was no car coming up as I took the left hander!

simon_masterson

I think that's a good way to go; you can then of course move the pads over if you have the money and want some new brakes.

lesfirth

Chris James wrote:

I don't think there is much, if any difference between the calipers. They are, after all, just bent beams pulled by a cable.

There IS a big difference in the pads. Koolstop Salmon are better than Ultegra which in turn are a LOT better than the one piece Sora rubbish.

I would recommend saving your money and buying some koolstop pads, with metal holders (if your current blocks do not already have metal holders).

I could not agree more with you, Chris. We have this subject every few weeks. It will not be long before somebody has a different view. Their opinion will be based on the fact that calipers costing 10 times cheap ones just have to be better.