Ultegra 6700 or 105 5800

Rifqi

hello guys
this is my first thread on BikeRadar forum
it's nice to be a part of a community

so here's my problem
i'm currently running 105 5700 and thinking about an upgrade

my LBS is currently putting their Ultegra 6700 (10sp) stock on discount..
on the other hand, they're also putting 105 5800 (11sp) on their shelf..
the price between them are roughly the same and i couldn't decide..

what do you guys think..
should i upgrade one tier?
should i upgrade one speed?
or should i keep my 5700?

thank you

Bozman

There's not a lot between them, if you can get 6700 Ultegra for £300(105 groupset price) I'd probably go for that.
Make sure that your wheels are 11sp compatible if you go for the 5800 though.

Rifqi

i think my RS21 is an 11sp compatible
is 11speed a game changer compared to a 10 speed grouppo?
i'm leaning towards 6700 because my regular mechanic says Ultegra shifts snappier than 105
not to mention it's also weigh less

Anonymous

personally I don't think it's worth the £300 it costs to upgrade. It won't really make a difference. Money far better spent on wheels or something.

If I were building a bike from new I would certainly take 11sp over 6700. It is very nice.

Anonymous

How old is the existing bike/groupset?
I would wear the 105 out and then upgrade to Ultegra 11 speed.

If you do not want 11 speed enough to know you want it, and its your mechanic that feels your 105 is a pain to shift, then I do not think you need either and you will be underwhelmed by the upgrade.

If you have not already upgraded your wheels/tyres/brake pads then thats where the money should go.
If you have then get some rollers and put the rest in an account towards your next bike.
Get the group set you actually want on that one ;-)

Edit: Just noticed that you are in Indonesia, so maybe you do not need the rollers.

Rifqi

i think i'll just wear the current 105 while saving more for 11 speed Ultegra 6800
that would make a huge difference on my bike..

thanks.. for all the advice
really, really appreciate it

marcusjb

Rifqi wrote:

i think i'll just wear the current 105 while saving more for 11 speed Ultegra 6800
that would make a huge difference on my bike..

Don't hold your breath. It won't be a huge difference.

shamsasa

I think the 5800 would shift smother than the 6700
I have the 6700 and the 6800
The reviews said that the 5800 is almost like the 6800
That is my opinion anyway

t4tomo

marcusjb wrote:

Rifqi wrote:

i think i'll just wear the current 105 while saving more for 11 speed Ultegra 6800
that would make a huge difference on my bike..

Don't hold your breath. It won't be a huge difference.

agreed, very small difference. upgrading tyres and or wheels will make a more noticebable difference

markhewitt1978

I went from 5700 to 6700 and it did make a big difference for me, especially with the braking from the hoods.

However if I were you I'd save up to get 6800 then it's going to be a proper noticeable upgrade.

Anonymous

t4tomo wrote:

marcusjb wrote:

Rifqi wrote:

i think i'll just wear the current 105 while saving more for 11 speed Ultegra 6800
that would make a huge difference on my bike..

Don't hold your breath. It won't be a huge difference.

agreed, very small difference. upgrading tyres and or wheels will make a more noticebable difference

So both of you guys have gone from old 105 to new Ultegra then?

First off, anyone considering changing/upgrading a non broken group set should have already changed/upgraded their wheels, so that advice is irrelevant.

Secondly, its going to make a big difference just for having the 11th sprocket.
I have old DA on one bike and old 105 on the others. There is a big difference and I have no doubt that new Ultegra is a noticeable difference too, even without the extra sprocket.

Anonymous

If you believe the 11th sprocket is going to make a 'big' difference that you are both deluded and a marketing departments wet dream.

I'll admit, the shifting on my 5800 is about as perfect as I could ever wish for, but it's nothing more than a 'nice to have'. I have 105 9 speed on my commuter and used all the other iterations and while they do get nicer as you go up the range and get newer, a carbon seatpost made more of a 'big difference' and that cost about 40 quid.

If you've got money to burn, go for it. Otherwise, save it for some super wheels or a holiday.

rafletcher

Well I've gone from 6700 to 5800, and I think the 5800 shifts slightly better, but there is noticeably less feedback at the lever (less of a click). But action is very light and easy.

w00dster

I have Sora 9 Speed on my Cyclocross bike, 10 Speed Tiagra on my Commuter and 6800 11 Speed on my best bike.
Does the 11 Sp Ultegra make a difference? Not really. I would go with 11 Speed only because it seems that wheel / hub manufacturers are also going that route. So, for me, 11 Speed 5800 is future proofing.
The brakes on the Ultegra bike are a lot better than the Tiagra bike, but in terms of shifting, I don't really notice. Then again both of these are serviced regularly so I'm happy with the set up. My Tiagra bike did have a problem with changing from the small ring to the large ring but that was just a tweak on the barrel adjuster.
Personally I would buy some nice warm clothing for the winter, much better upgrade in my opinion.

Anonymous

coriordan wrote:

If you believe the 11th sprocket is going to make a 'big' difference that you are both deluded and a marketing departments wet dream.

I'll admit, the shifting on my 5800 is about as perfect as I could ever wish for, but it's nothing more than a 'nice to have'. I have 105 9 speed on my commuter and used all the other iterations and while they do get nicer as you go up the range and get newer, a carbon seatpost made more of a 'big difference' and that cost about 40 quid.

If you've got money to burn, go for it. Otherwise, save it for some super wheels or a holiday.

Its going to make a 10% difference. Its pretty much a mathematical fact lol and 10% is big in cycling terms IMO.
The extra sprocket give you closer ratios. If people cannot make use of that then thats their problem, not the groupsets.

I am glad you have found your gearing heaven in 105. Thing is that there are people who will say exactly the same about Tiagra and even Sora, so forgive me if I feel its not me that is the deluded one.

Di2 is far more perfect shifting if you want more to wish for
Or is Di2 more frivolous than a couple of weeks in the sun :roll:

marcusjb

Carbonator wrote:

[

So both of you guys have gone from old 105 to new Ultegra then?

I've spent 40-odd years on earth, many of them dicking about with bikes. Very, very few innovations in groupsets have come along that actually make a massive difference. It's all incremental and even then, it's got little effect on how the bike feels or how quick you go on it.

I've no doubt that 6800 is better than the 6700 I use on the geared bike - I am sure it shifts better, might even be lighter/stiffer/more responsive/get you laid more, but is it a massive difference? Does it make me faster? Does it make it easier?

Of course not.

I have no problem at all with people buying new groupsets, it's their money. But anyone thinking it is going to revelotionise their cycling will be most disappointed.

I'm no stick in the mud either and love new technology (my day job involves technology as well) and I have all the gadgets like PowerTaps and GPS etc. (though I do admit to having a soft spot for steel framesets and fixed wheel bikes).

6800 might make you smile when you change gear, but it's hardly as if 5700 was a dog now was it? It's only changing gear. Doesn't mean getting up that hill is any easier or quicker (though I accept that if the groupset is lighter, the physics suggest it will be slightly quicker).

Again, I don't give a crap whether people feel that they need to have the latest groupset to upgrade, but it's just this notion that it will actually make any real world difference or that you'll even really notice it in a few weeks.

My 6700 shifts pretty well I think - don't actually ever notice it not doing so. Can't say I feel the need to 'upgrade' it.

There are things that make a big difference to how a bike feels and how fast you go on it - but groupsets isn't one of them.

ai_1

Whether or not it's worth your time and money upgrading is largely subjective. There's certainly no huge performance gains to be had for most people but more sprockets does provide more options.
I've done most of my riding with a 9 speed, last gen Tiagra groupset with a triple chainset. Never had any problems. It has always changed easily and reliably, never breaks and provides sufficient gearing options that the gaps are not cavernous and I have a wide enough gearing range (thought the triple obviously helps with this!). I've ridden rental bikes on cycling holidays a number of times, always equipped with Ultegra 6700. While these operated very nicely and were lovely bikes, I've never felt that the ride experience was significantly enhanced by having an Ultegra groupset rather than a Tiagra or 105. Earlier this year I got a new bike equipped with Ultegra 6800. The change to a compact is significant (still not sure which I prefer but it is a noticable difference in gear selection). The change to a current groupset 2 tiers up from what I'd had before is nice but much less significant and certainly not a game-changer. Don't get me wrong, I'm very happy with the 6800. There is a noticable improvement in front changes over all other groupsets I've used. The 6800 groupset provides much smoother front changes with relatively little force required to go from small to big chainrings and less lever travel than previous versions. These are real improvements BUT they don't revolutionise my bike rides. As much as I like these improvements I still find my older bike, which still gets some use, perfectly acceptable and enjoyable, and doubt I'd ever bother upgrading the groupset.
Personnaly, I think a change from 5700 to 6700 is pretty pointless. You'll save a small amouint of weight and that's about it. Changing from 5700 to 5800 would give you the extra sprocket and may make a bit of difference if you struggle up hills and need a really wide range cassette. Also, I presume 5800 has inherited some of the gear change and braking improvements from 6800 which would be nice. So I'd go for 5800 over 6700 but unless my 5700 needed replacing anyway, I wouldn't go for either.

Anonymous

Ai_1 wrote:

So I'd go for 5800 over 6700 but unless my 5700 needed replacing anyway, I wouldn't go for either.

This.

earth

I went from 5600 to 6700 and I didn't like the shape of the shifters. Better brakes, front shifting and 11 sprockets would tip the scales for me so I would go for 5800 if I really wanted to upgrade.

Anonymous

marcusjb wrote:

There are things that make a big difference to how a bike feels and how fast you go on it - but groupsets isn't one of them.

Who said it was? Apart from you?

Why have you assumed anyone thinks it will make the bike handle differently or go significantly faster?
Why do you even assume people expect massive gains?

To me cycling is a very tactile thing and little changes make noticeable and often worthwhile gains.
I think most people agree with that when it suits them, but disagree when it does not.
Bring cost into it and people lose the plot in defending the level of componentry they have, yet slag off all above it.

Anonymous

You said 10%. It's not actually a 10% difference. You have a 10% increase in cogs at the back, which actually means relatively little.

It's like that sketch with Spinal Tap where the amp goes up to 11. It's 11 for the sake of it. It doesn't give you a wider range. 11-32 was around before 11sp came in. It just gives you 1 more cog in the gap.

Anonymous

1 is 10% of 10 so 11 is 10% better than 10.
It's better because you have closer ratios, not wider range.

Guessing you can get an 8 speed 11-32. Would you be as happy with that?
If you have a 32 sprocket on your bike you should want 11 speed even more than I do!

Anonymous

Its not 10% better though is it, you don't have "10% closer ratios", you just have 10% more cogs at the rear.

Anyway. The point being 10sp isn't 11% better than 9, nor is 11sp 10% better than 10.

I am certainly of the opinion that it shifts better and brakes better (probably more important) and maybe shaves a few grams, but it's not going to make anyone's bike this magical "10%" better, but would make a worthwhile upgrade once the existing groupset has had it.

For the cost (£300, lets say) I would buy some new wheels or some nice winter clothing or some new shoes. That would make a hell of a lot more of a difference.

marcusjb

Carbonator wrote:

11 is 10% better than 10.

I'm bamboozled by the stats, so for that reason, I'm oot.

Anonymous

coriordan wrote:

Its not 10% better though is it, you don't have "10% closer ratios", you just have 10% more cogs at the rear.

Anyway. The point being 10sp isn't 11% better than 9, nor is 11sp 10% better than 10.

I am certainly of the opinion that it shifts better and brakes better (probably more important) and maybe shaves a few grams, but it's not going to make anyone's bike this magical "10%" better, but would make a worthwhile upgrade once the existing groupset has had it.

For the cost (£300, lets say) I would buy some new wheels or some nice winter clothing or some new shoes. That would make a hell of a lot more of a difference.

You are making the same mistake as others.
I did not say it would make the bike 10% better.
I am only talking about the groupset.

And I 100% agree it's not a financially great upgrade. I advised the OP not to bother.
I also said he should have bought the wheels etc. first.
Changing a perfectly serviceable groupset is the last thing I would spend money on. That said I would have bought a bike with the one I wanted in the first place.

How much closer do you think the ratios are (as a percentage) then if you have the same size (ie 11-32 you mentioned) cassette with an extra sprocket?

Someone will be on you case in a minute for saying shoes make any difference lol

Bozman

The only positive point if you're comparing 11 speed to 10 is the shifting, it's a hell of a lot lighter and smoother and that's your lot ... It does look better too but that's up to the individual.

mugensi

I was considering the same thing (upgrading 5700 to 6700) recently until i rode a friends bike with 7900. Shifting through the back sprockets was very similar to my own bikes but the shifting on the front rings was hugely impressive and smooth.
My winter bike has 9spd Tiagra and the front gear change is much smoother and freer than the 105 on my good bike (I'm guessing its because of the side exit cable routing as opposed to hidden on 5700) I then had the lend of a 6700 equipped bike for about 2 weeks and noticed no real difference in it and my 5700 bike so after considering everything I've decided to wait a while and change the shifters and FD only to DA when money allows. I have no need for 11 gears when all that the extra cog is adding is a gear in the middle somewhere, the biggest and smallest gears remain the same and that is all that really matters. I could find no discernable difference between 4500 and 7900 gear changes on the rear, maybe slightly crisper but nothing worth the additional costs.

Anonymous

I have 105 9 speed and 11sp and while I don't have any complaints (or plans to upgrade it) I can tell you that the front shifting on 11sp is like night and day by comparison

EDIT - I also hear that 7800 front shifting is the best of 10 speed choices

ai_1

MugenSi wrote:

I was considering the same thing (upgrading 5700 to 6700) recently until i rode a friends bike with 7900. Shifting through the back sprockets was very similar to my own bikes but the shifting on the front rings was hugely impressive and smooth.
My winter bike has 9spd Tiagra and the front gear change is much smoother and freer than the 105 on my good bike (I'm guessing its because of the side exit cable routing as opposed to hidden on 5700) I then had the lend of a 6700 equipped bike for about 2 weeks and noticed no real difference in it and my 5700 bike so after considering everything I've decided to wait a while and change the shifters and FD only to DA when money allows. I have no need for 11 gears when all that the extra cog is adding is a gear in the middle somewhere, the biggest and smallest gears remain the same and that is all that really matters. I could find no discernable difference between 4500 and 7900 gear changes on the rear, maybe slightly crisper but nothing worth the additional costs.

It's nice to have fairly small gaps between gears as you will more often be able to get a cadence that's just where you want it. If you ride on the flat most of the time and use a narrower cassette then I've found 9 speed plenty. In mountainous terrain a wide range cassette can make more sprockets an attractive proposition.

I assume you can now get 7900 levers and FD relatively cheaply? If this approach is not significantly cheaper than moving to 5800 or 6800 then I'd do the later for preference. Not, primarily, for the extra sprockets but because I believe, from reporting, that the current generation 9000 was a massive improvement over 7900 in terms of gear change performance (especially at the front) and also that 6800 is as good or almost as good as 9000 in this respect. I suspect 5800 follows suite as is normally the case for sucessive releases of the next tier down from Shimano.