Puzzled about Spesh prices......

zak3737

Ignoring the 'dont buy Spesh' feeling of lots on here perhaps, .....I popped into the Specialized store in Harrogate on Wed, just for a browse, and drool over the new shiny stuff coming in etc.....
Lots of 2015 Bikes on show, not all, but a good selection, enough to keep me entertained in a 'kid in a sweetie shop' kind a way for a while, and I was quite surprised how good the new Diverge looked IRL.

Its been brought in to replace the Secteur, and is clearly a more 'do it all' kind of bike, 30c tyres etc, and looked very durable, and comfortable, - didnt ride it but would be tempted, perhaps definitely if I had the kind of fire roads in East Yorks that clearly they do over in California, as the Spesh Diverge film on the website shows.



New Roubaix's looked good, or the models they had in store as yet, the best one being the Pro Disc Race Di2, @ £5500. *gulp*


However, both I and the chap I was talking to were a little puzzled, as looking at the S-Works frameset at £2600, and an Ultegra Groupset at £5/600, he said they'd do an S-Works build from £3400......
Now, that would be with 'basic' wheels, or 'average' wheels, but even if you went crazy and went for some of the Mavic Ksyrium SLR's, @£1200, you'd still be 'only' at £4500-ish.......

I know the Pro Disc would also give you Di2, and Disc's etc (ignoring that debate), but that would give you an S-Works Custom build for a grand less than one of the Stock bikes, - crazy ?

Of course, this is all mere pie in the sky for me, I'm new back to biking and my £700 2012 Roubaix is fulfilling my needs, but we cant help looking and dreaming can we !!

ayjaycee

Zak, I have never bothered doing the price comparisons on the very high end Specialized stuff as I am generally too busy drooling!
Seriously though, I have never really understood the 'don't buy Spesh' mentality that you mention and that seems to be common on this site but I have always put it down to some sort of snobbishness - maybe somebody could explain it. Although I admittedly have limited experience compared to most. IMHO, Specialized produce some great bikes that, all things being equal, compare well with anything else on the market. And 'yes' I do ride Specialized - 2 of them (2015 Allez Elite and 2013 Crosstrail Comp Disc) both of which are fantastic (and so does the Mrs).

mulletmaster

The don't buy specialized ethos exists mostly as they represent very poor value for money, caparative products from competitors are almost universally significantly cheaper. That combined with them having a reputation for being arseholes ie taking on that guy for selling "roubaix" stuff when they didn't even own the suitable TM.

ayjaycee

Having looked around when I bought my Allez, I'm not sure that I buy the 'almost universally significantly cheaper' bit particularly when I bought from a very good independent LBS who look after their customers and include two services in the price as well as providing an (admittedly rudimentary) initial fitting session and troubleshooting any subsequent issues . They also gave me a very good discount when I produced armed forces ID. Not sure that I'm too worried about the Specialized corporate image either and I doubt that's the first thing to come to most peoples mind when they think Specialized. If corporate image were a major factor in peoples thinking, they probably wouldn't be wearing all that cycling apparel that's made using what amounts to slave labour on the sub-continent and elsewhere (and, yes, I know that some of the more expensive brands are made in UK or Europe but they are in the minority). I remain of the opinion that plain old fashioned snobbery is the main cause but, as they say, opinions are just like ar**holes in that everyone has got one.

mulletmaster

All right, enjoy your bike. Must have been a hell of a discount to make an allez competitively priced though. Each to their own.

wishitwasallflat

Spesh bikes can look dear when you compare components etc on similar builds but a lot of work went into developing the frames and the Lifetime Warranty on the frame is rock solid. That's worth a bit extra IMO and if I had the dosh I fancy a Diverge to replace my Sectuer for commuting (really keen on getting disc brakes for that) and a Roubaix for fun!

zak3737

I dont think Specialized are especially expensive, perhaps you pay a bit more for the Brand than other 'less well known' brands, but with such a big outfit, surely that means a helluva lot of R&D has gone into it.
My own bike of choice for example, the Roubaix, starts at £1300, and even the Sport model at £1500, with full 105 etc, isnt especially over-priced for such a well finished machine ?

I popped into a new LBS that has just opened very close to me, a Giant stockist, as well as Parlee, Willer and a couple of others, and must admit, the Defy's looked great, but the comparable models to Spesh were still £1400/£1800.

Sure - there are lots who perhaps always want something less 'well known' and a little more boutiquey, and perhaps even less expensive, - but these brands will always have to be less expensive to compete with the big brand names ??

Dippydog3

I have a 2014 Roubaix and a 2015 Diverge. Love both, but for different reasons.

The Diverge is my go to winter bike. There may be a lot of Specialized detractors on this forum but I can tell you there are a lot of Diverge lovers out there. It looks better in the flesh than on the web. And it's great to ride.

paulmon

I had a similar conversation with the concept store in Chester this morning. I made enquiries about an S-Works Tarmac/Roubaix subject to demo and fit. The S-Works bike in each is somewhere between 6K and 8K and with the frameset retailing for £2600 as you said that's a lot of money for groupo, wheels an finishing kit. I already have a good set of wheels and good finishing kit so I'll personally just go for the frameset and buy a DA9000/Ultegra groupset.

As for the brand, I hadn't even considered them for my next road bike until a week ago. I was busy looking at Italian/boutique bikes. That is until they replaced a frame on my 6 year old Enduro and fitted new cables all round all because of a problem with a rear shock mount.

Any brand that offers such good customer service gets my business. Its the same reason I buy Rapha instead of Assos, etc..

P

fleshtuxedo

Could it be that many who would look at a £5k Specialized wouldn't be likely to make the comparison you have? I don't think it's just Spesh mind, most bikes over £3-4k are probably going to be the same. Most buyers with a bit of nous will build up their own in this price bracket, so 'off the shelf' tends to equal poor value when you get over a certain level.

I built up my best bike for about £2.5k with frame, groupset and wheels heavily discounted, I reckon off the shelf would have easily been over £4k.

"Market segmentation", innit...

t4tomo

ayjaycee wrote:

Having looked around when I bought my Allez, I'm not sure that I buy the 'almost universally significantly cheaper' bit particularly when I bought from a very good independent LBS who look after their customers and include two services in the price as well as providing an (admittedly rudimentary) initial fitting session and troubleshooting any subsequent issues . They also gave me a very good discount when I produced armed forces ID. Not sure that I'm too worried about the Specialized corporate image either and I doubt that's the first thing to come to most peoples mind when they think Specialized. If corporate image were a major factor in peoples thinking, they probably wouldn't be wearing all that cycling apparel that's made using what amounts to slave labour on the sub-continent and elsewhere (and, yes, I know that some of the more expensive brands are made in UK or Europe but they are in the minority). I remain of the opinion that plain old fashioned snobbery is the main cause but, as they say, opinions are just like ar**holes in that everyone has got one.

Given you work for a company that kills people then yes I cant imagine a bit of corporate bullying of family businesses bothers you.

Before you come round my gaff with tank, that was intended as a joke. I'm very grateful people like you joining the armed forces and risk their lives for my safety. You all do a great job.

cougie

Ah what you want is a Pinarello. They do a track bike and thats something like ten grand - and they dont even give you brakes ! Ay caramba !

Anonymous

Zak3737 wrote:

Sure - there are lots who perhaps always want something less 'well known' and a little more boutiquey, and perhaps even less expensive, - but these brands will always have to be less expensive to compete with the big brand names ??

There certainly are people who buy things just because they are uncommon (I have never understood that myself and have always just bought what I wanted), but I think you are putting Specialized bikes on way too high a pedestal to talk about them in that way.

People buying an Ebel rather than a Rolex perhaps, but I think its other reasons mainly that people don't buy Specialized bikes.

Why are you obsessed with Specialized Zak? There is nothing that special about them other than loads of people have them who seem to think there is.
I think most owners just feel comfortable with them. People that need to be in a huddle of other Specialized owners, rather than venturing out into the real/full world of cycling.

Your mentioning of 'boutique' bikes (WTF do you actually mean by that anyway?) just seems to prove that point.
There are loads of bike brands in between Specialized (often firmly at the newb end of the market) and boutique/designer bikes.

Why not a Cube, or a Cannondale even? I think I can see why. Its just too scary, and tempting to go back to the safety in numbers of Specialized isn't it.

I have no problem with people buying whatever bike they want (its normally one of the great things about cycling), but feel Specialized bikes are rarely bought that purely.

They also seem to have a laughable snob value to them.
People often seem to think that others are looking at them enviously and/or in ore of their knowledgeable and technically superior purchase.
In reality I am less interested in their bike than pretty much any they could have, and I just assume they only bought it because it said Specialized on the side.

paulmon

Carbonator wrote:

Zak3737 wrote:

Sure - there are lots who perhaps always want something less 'well known' and a little more boutiquey, and perhaps even less expensive, - but these brands will always have to be less expensive to compete with the big brand names ??

There certainly are people who buy things just because they are uncommon (I have never understood that myself and have always just bought what I wanted), but I think you are putting Specialized bikes on way too high a pedestal to talk about them in that way.

People buying an Ebel rather than a Rolex perhaps, but I think its other reasons mainly that people don't buy Specialized bikes.

Why are you obsessed with Specialized Zak? There is nothing that special about them other than loads of people have them who seem to think there is.
I think most owners just feel comfortable with them. People that need to be in a huddle of other Specialized owners, rather than venturing out into the real/full world of cycling.

Your mentioning of 'boutique' bikes (WTF do you actually mean by that anyway?) just seems to prove that point.
There are loads of bike brands in between Specialized (often firmly at the newb end of the market) and boutique/designer bikes.

Why not a Cube, or a Cannondale even? I think I can see why. Its just too scary, and tempting to go back to the safety in numbers of Specialized isn't it.

I have no problem with people buying whatever bike they want (its normally one of the great things about cycling), but feel Specialized bikes are rarely bought that purely.

They also seem to have a laughable snob value to them.
People often seem to think that others are looking at them enviously and/or in ore of their knowledgeable and technically superior purchase.
In reality I am less interested in their bike than pretty much any they could have, and I just assume they only bought it because it said Specialized on the side.

I was going to post a long constructive response to this drivel but realised you have some kind of Specialized hate and really have no idea what you are talking about.

P

zak3737

*chuckle....*

florerider

isn't is a case of my taiwan manufactured bike is better than yours, so there :x

Roberto di Velo

Specialized make some really good kit and have also produced some innovative designs (I've always liked the Roubaix and I think the Tarmac is a really good bike too), but they also make some pretty mass produced meh for people who don't know much about bikes and like to go with a well known brand.

I'd say less that they were overpriced, although I think they are a bit, but more of an issue is that they are often under-specced for their price point. If I was spending nearly £2k on a bike, I would not be impressed by mid-range groupsets and fairly basic wheels. Flicking through a bike catalogue that came through my door today, I agree with the OP that some of their pricing is a bit weird; I'm not sure how I'd feel about paying £4500 for a Tarmac disc pro, when you can have an S-Works build for a bit less.

Anyway, I'm not saying I'd turn my nose up at a decent Specialized bike, but if we're talking about "drool factor", I think there are prettier bikes out there.

fleshtuxedo

Roberto di Velo wrote:

******* through a bike catalogue that came through my door today

I'd really like to know what you were doing to this bike catalogue....

Roberto di Velo

FleshTuxedo wrote:

Roberto di Velo wrote:

******* through a bike catalogue that came through my door today

I'd really like to know what you were doing to this bike catalogue....

What can I say, there were some nice looking bikes!



p.s. Apparently, flicking (starts with fl and rhymes with kicking) is a bit too racy for this messageboard...

zak3737

Roberto di Velo wrote:

Specialized make some really good kit and have also produced some innovative designs (I've always liked the Roubaix and I think the Tarmac is a really good bike too), but they also make some pretty mass produced meh for people who don't know much about bikes and like to go with a well known brand. Agree. After all, the Roubaix is supposedly a benchmark for Endurance geometry ?

I'd say less that they were overpriced, although I think they are a bit, but more of an issue is that they are often under-specced for their price point. Perhaps, - although comparing Models, no worse than similar bikes from other major producers, ie Synapse & Defy models. Perhaps that 'value' we all crave is purely the domain of the smaller 'boutiquey' brands ? (I'm sure most will know what I mean, even if Carbonator doesnt.)

If I was spending nearly £2k on a bike, I would not be impressed by mid-range groupsets and fairly basic wheels. ******* through a bike catalogue that came through my door today, I agree with the OP that some of their pricing is a bit weird; I'm not sure how I'd feel about paying £4500 for a Tarmac disc pro, when you can have an S-Works build for a bit less. Exactly, doesnt make sense does it ?

Anyway, I'm not saying I'd turn my nose up at a decent Specialized bike, but if we're talking about "drool factor", I think there are prettier bikes out there.

Anonymous

Roberto di Velo wrote:

I'd say less that they were overpriced, although I think they are a bit, but more of an issue is that they are often under-specced for their price point.

Is it just me or...................never mind.

So can anyone fill me in on what brands are 'boutiquey' bikes.

zak3737

*rolls eyes*

Anonymous

I thought you would know lol.
No one else seems to.

Guessing you mean Ribble and PX etc. but thats not really how I would term them.

I don't think they really come into it when talking about the value of Specialized anyway. You can only really compare with similar bike manufacturers.

Specialized charge for their name, and good luck to them if they can get away with it.
At the end of the day I do not think there is much in it at the mid end (if the mid can be an end) of the market.
Lots of brands are dearer too. Bianchi charge a premium don't they?

I am not that keen on their bikes or the way they flaunt them, but they are just frames with other manufacturers stuff bolted onto them at the end of the day.
Its peoples reaction to the brand that I find odd. Bianchi I could understand, but Specialized, why?

Dandelionclock30

mulletmaster wrote:

The don't buy specialized ethos exists mostly as they represent very poor value for money, caparative products from competitors are almost universally significantly cheaper. That combined with them having a reputation for being arseholes ie taking on that guy for selling "roubaix" stuff when they didn't even own the suitable TM.

Its this exactly why some people are not that keen on them. They are poor value for money and in these times where a lot of people want value for money they are way down the list.
The frames are good and I think they would be better off selling them all seperately and then your able to build it up yourself. I know they do this with the higher end frames.
I'm after a new bike and I just couldnt spend my money on such poor specked bikes it would grate on me that I'd been ripped off.
I think they are the Nike of the bike world.Looks flash but a rip off.

zak3737

Carbonator wrote:

but they are just frames with other manufacturers stuff bolted onto them at the end of the day.

But.......isnt that MOST Bikes ?
In the case of the Roubaix for example though....its a damn good frame !

Carbonator wrote:

peoples reaction to the brand that I find odd. Bianchi I could understand, but Specialized, why?

Quite honestly, in MTB'ing and Road cycling.......I have never known 'anyone' give me an overly gushing.....or indeed 'bad' reaction to having a 'Specialized' Bike......or seemingly look down on my decision' to purchase one.....but then, I havent had the pleasure of meeting you it seems..