Wheel Upgrade

jonesy62

I've set myself a budget of £2500 for my long overdue 'Sunday Best' road bike. I really like the look of the BMC Teammachine SLR02, particularly after such a good showing in 2014 BOTY contest - http://www.bmc-racing.com/int-en/bikes/ ... slr02/105/. The £1900 purchase price would leave me a reasonable amount for a wheel upgrade from the standard Shimano's RS11's. Therefore I would like some recommendations from the forum on which wheel set to purchase. I'm considering Shimano RS81's, Swissside Gotthard and Fulcrum R3's. I like to ride in Sportive's, weigh 14 stone and I live in a really hilly area so I'd need durability as well as good climbing performance for my £500. Thought's and suggestions please?

rafletcher

Talk to Malcolm at thecycleclinic http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk/ and he'll build you a great set of wheels that will be right for you and the use you want to put them to. Why buy machine built wheels when you can get handbuilt? Something like 24/28 H Plus Son Archetypes on Dura ace. 9 one of his "stock" custom builds.

Tjgoodhew

Zondas for around £250 ???

Lighweight, good climbing wheels and leaves you £250 to spend on decent kit ??

Bobbinogs

Durace c24 are great. If you shop around you should be able to get them for ~£500. The hubs are fantastic and will last for ever if cared for...unfortunately the rims will last a few seasons and then the whole wheel will need to go in the bin.

So, if you want VFM then go for the RS81's (which have the same rim as the DA C24 but Ultegra hubs) or the Zondas, which are very similar in performance to the RS81s and only cost £260. Common sense would be a nice set of handbuilts, Archtype with DA hubs, as you will get great performance and a rim that could easily be replaced.

jonesy62

Thanks everyone. Hadn't thought about Campag. I had thought about hand built though. I've heard that Harry Rowland is pretty good? And he's in the Kent area, I've been told.

passout

Zondas are v. good value (and are basically the same as Fulcrum 3s) but handbuilts are probably ther best choice in terms of value over the longer term.

intheknowcycling.com

I like the Zonda/Fulcrum Racing 3 for competitive riding but think you won't find them very compliant/comfortable over the length of sportives you plan to ride. DA C24 CL is a great climbing wheelset and comfortable over long distances though might not be stiff enough for your weight/strength. DA C35 CL or RS 81 C35 CL would be best for combination of stiffness, climbing, comfort but you'd have to stretch beyond your budget.

Would check into a FLO 30 wheelset - wide (19 inside/24mm outside width), toroid profile/angled brake track alloy rim you can get in 20f/28r spokes; stiff, very comfortable, aero, climbs well, descends great. $500/£320 and have to ship from US, pay tariff but superior to Zonda/Fulcrum R3 for longer distances. Set of the rims run you about £100.

DeVlaeminck

rafletcher wrote:

Talk to Malcolm at thecycleclinic http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk/ and he'll build you a great set of wheels that will be right for you and the use you want to put them to. Why buy machine built wheels when you can get handbuilt? Something like 24/28 H Plus Son Archetypes on Dura ace. 9 one of his "stock" custom builds.

I think it depends, look in the sales and facory built will give you better performance in the £500 range - that may not be the case if you look at full retail price. However if you want to spec brass nipples, choose a wider rim or one with more material on the braking surface or that can be repaired economically handbuilt is probably the way to go.

dwanes

Forget Handbuilts.
Factory wheels are the way to go on a bike like you are getting, in general they are built stiffer and are much more blingy and will look more 'Pro' on your 'Pro' looking BMC.
Handbuilts may be more economical in the long run for some people, but who keeps their handbuilts for ever and ever and keeps rebuilding them for a sunday best bike?
Factory wheels can last a long time for most people, especially on a 'sunday best bike' like you are getting, and you want it to look the best.
Get some handbuilts and you will end up still wanting some nice factory wheels.

cycleclinic

for above post really? Your image of handbuilts is obviously high spoke traditional wheels. While wheel builders still do that they also do 20F/24R builds with rims like Pacenti SL23 and hubs like White Industries T11, with sapim CX-rays and alloy nipples weight 1455g. That will out peform almost anything factory including C24's, i.e as aerdymanic if not more, stiffer, wider rim for improved handling......That of course if such a wheel suits the rider, it does not suit everyone like the DAc24 wheelset.

So consider all wheels OP factory and handbuilt and pick the one right for you, the spoke count needs to suit the mileage you expect out of them, your weight and how you ride. Also if you race them competively then the lower spoke count for improved aerodynamics is more more important, if you don't do this then quite frankly it is not important. On the point of aerodynamics how do Shimano think the rim profile of a c24 rim is actually aero and 16 CX-sprint spoke actully have a higher frontal area than 20 CX-ray spokes. not that these small details actually make much difference to how fast you can go, but seeing as people who buy c24 wheels worry about very small maringal gains such little details should means hours of angush about what to buy and how it will affect my strava times. I'll get my coat.

Manc33

dwanes wrote:

Forget Handbuilts.
Factory wheels are the way to go on a bike like you are getting, in general they are built stiffer and are much more blingy and will look more 'Pro' on your 'Pro' looking BMC.
Handbuilts may be more economical in the long run for some people, but who keeps their handbuilts for ever and ever and keeps rebuilding them for a sunday best bike?
Factory wheels can last a long time for most people, especially on a 'sunday best bike' like you are getting, and you want it to look the best.
Get some handbuilts and you will end up still wanting some nice factory wheels.

... and people say I troll?

Or maybe it is serious.

keezx

dwanes wrote:

Get some handbuilts and you will end up still wanting some nice factory wheels.

I have 5 wheelsets , all built by myself and I will NEVER want or ride fashion als wheels.
It's all about the properties and not lookatme.

Anyone may give his opinion, but it's also free to reject any opinoin.

DeVlaeminck

thecycleclinic wrote:

for above post really? Your image of handbuilts is obviously high spoke traditional wheels. While wheel builders still do that they also do 20F/24R builds with rims like Pacenti SL23 and hubs like White Industries T11, with sapim CX-rays and alloy nipples weight 1455g. That will out peform almost anything factory including C24's, i.e as aerdymanic if not more, stiffer, wider rim for improved handling......That of course if such a wheel suits the rider, it does not suit everyone like the DAc24 wheelset.
.

How much and who would that build suit?

ugo.santalucia

Now that winter is coming, why not having a "snowflake" set of wheels?

keezx

Interesting gadget, but what about stiffness and staying true?

ugo.santalucia

Keezx wrote:

Interesting gadget, but what about stiffness and staying true?

Talking to some cool kidz mechanics, they are OK... the main drawback is they lack responsiveness, but other than that they seem to be fine... the same folks ride fixed and do skids all the time, so they must be pretty solid

DeVlaeminck

DeVlaeminck wrote:

thecycleclinic wrote:

for above post really? Your image of handbuilts is obviously high spoke traditional wheels. While wheel builders still do that they also do 20F/24R builds with rims like Pacenti SL23 and hubs like White Industries T11, with sapim CX-rays and alloy nipples weight 1455g. That will out peform almost anything factory including C24's, i.e as aerdymanic if not more, stiffer, wider rim for improved handling......That of course if such a wheel suits the rider, it does not suit everyone like the DAc24 wheelset.
.

How much and who would that build suit?

Anyone ? Dura Ace C24s are about £570 at the moment including skewers. I agree £570 is a lot of money to chuck away when the ultra light rim wears out but then again they are meant to be under 1400gs and stiff enough for most - handbuilts seem to come in significantly more expensive or about 200gs plus heavier. Yes I know 200gs isn't a huge amount but then kept for the best the C24s will probably last years anyway.

passout

?[/quote]

Anyone ? Dura Ace C24s are about £570 at the moment including skewers. I agree £570 is a lot of money to chuck away when the ultra light rim wears out but then again they are meant to be under 1400gs and stiff enough for most - handbuilts seem to come in significantly more expensive or about 200gs plus heavier. Yes I know 200gs isn't a huge amount but then kept for the best the C24s will probably last years anyway.[/quote]

I think you've summed it up pretty well - if you want nice light wheels but are willing to sacriface some longevity (compared to handbuilts), then go for it. Never ridden C4s but that is seriously light & shimano wheels are generally good. I'd keep your older wheels for winter.

jonesy62

Wow, my question has opened up quite a debate on handmade v factory wheels. I can't can't say I'm any clearer in my decision making but as I'm a bit of a Shimano fan I'm still shortlisting the RS81's and the Dura Ace have a bit of prestige attached to them, but the longevity of the rims does concern me. But saying that, I doubt I'll be doing more than 1500 miles PA on my new bike, so surely I'll get a few years out of them? And what about these - http://www.wiggle.co.uk/fast-forward-f2 ... -wheelset/ ??
One thing does concern me. Concensus of opinion here seems to be that the wheels should be matched to the individual riders style and weight etc., plus usage. But how do you go about trying out different sets of wheels?

Bobbinogs

As a rough guide, I have the RS80, which are the same as 81s but with different stickers and different colour nipples. Rim is the same as the DA c24.

Mine are pretty much worn out now (wear dot just fading and rim noticeably concave) but I have had 3 summers out of them...when I say summer, I pretty much mean sticking them on the bike in April and leaving them on until late September and riding them in all weathers. I reckon mine have done around 2,500 miles per year (probably, as I average about 6-7k PA but have a few bikes). I do look after the pads and I do clean the wheels regularly though.

The handbuilt v factory debate comes up on every wheel thread, never a definitive answer which is why we all still debate it I have handbuilts and factory built so I am sitting firmly on the fence.

jonesy62

Bobbinogs wrote:

As a rough guide, I have the RS80, which are the same as 81s but with different stickers and different colour nipples. Rim is the same as the DA c24.

Mine are pretty much worn out now (wear dot just fading and rim noticeably concave) but I have had 3 summers out of them...when I say summer, I pretty much mean sticking them on the bike in April and leaving them on until late September and riding them in all weathers. I reckon mine have done around 2,500 miles per year (probably, as I average about 6-7k PA but have a few bikes). I do look after the pads and I do clean the wheels regularly though.

The handbuilt v factory debate comes up on every wheel thread, never a definitive answer which is why we all still debate it I have handbuilts and factory built so I am sitting firmly on the fence.

Thanks for the info Bobbinogs, plenty to think about!

cycleclinic

Factory wheels suit many the down side is they not not overly repairable. MAdison do hold good stock of parts for shimano wheels so this is not the main issue but aside from spoke breakages there is not much posint in doing a repair. If you get proper spoke fatigue on C24's then new spokes are £3.50 each £1.49 for the special nipples. Fortunuatley there are only 36 spokes but still it adds up (I hope those prices are right). By the time you get spoke fatigue though the rim normally wear out and they are too expensive to by and rebuild if you damage one. The hubs being dura ace are excellent but do not use the same internals as the Da9000 hubs which means in 5 years time year the new model is out the part you need to keep the wheels going may no longer be available except as old stock which is pop luck really.

The same applies I suppose to a handbuilt wheel but companies but spare part supply is not normally a issues so long as the right compentents are used i,e boutique parts with variable supply. It really does not matter if the wheel is handbuilt or DA C24. The build I suggested would suit those who C24's would suit but I know it's a better wheel, same weight as aero, stiffer and a wider rim. All you have to do is decide what you want and if it's handbuilts phone some wheelbuilder and see if they will do it. As a guide a wheel like this would be fine for riders up to around 80kg (i.e long spoke life) heavier rider may find spoke failing before the rim wears out but that is not definate as riding style/power outut has an impact. The same applies to C24 wheels too but as the brake track is quite thin the rim normally wear out before multiple spoke failure becomes an issue. The above post proves that point as 7500 miles of summer use is not a huge amount really. Imagine the mileage acheived if used all year round!

Wheels like this though are racing wheels and deploy all the marginal gains. If you are not racing and you want a wheel for 10,0000 miles (C24's may do that for some but not everyone) then pick something else.

Know what you want from the wheel and buy accrodingly no matter what it is. The main adavnatge of factory wheels is availability. Most riders are not confident buyers and buying a shimano wheels instills some confidence. That the power of a brand. it does not mean however it is better than the alterntives just a certaintity given the number happy users out there. I hope that helps one way or the other!