Ched Evans

Coach H

southdownswolf wrote:

Coach H wrote:

Sounds like freedom of choice for the general public rather than discrimination of Ched Evans to me.

No, freedom of choice would be if he was playing and you boycott the game.

Surely its Jessica Enni-Hill's freedom of choice that should he be given a contract that she asks for her name to be removed from the stand. She's just letting the club know up front. Same for the other patrons and sponsors.

tmg

I go to watch football but I dont go to stand and judge them on their morals or judge them on what they do off the pitch, I watch them and admire them for the skills they posses for playing football. Our judicial system has dealt with the guy and he should be free to get on with his life

veronese68

Cornerblock wrote:

That's another thing I find a bit odd, it's her father financing his appeal and the publicity drive to convince us all that he's not a rapist, a guy who openly admits that he 'cheated' on his daughter! :shock: Strange days indeed.

Investing in the future? He's more likely to make money playing football so she can fleece him for more when she turfs him out, citing being unfaithful as grounds for divorce. You have to speculate to accumulate.

jedster

I don't think United should be prevented from employing him - it's their choice - but if I was making the decision I wouldn't.
I'd hate to hear a crowd chanting his name - apparently at recent games there have chants of "Ched Evans, he does what he wants, he does what he wants". That would make my skin crawl. If they sign him again it will imply some tolerance of that attitude.
I also don't think we have much evidence that he has accepted any responsibility or is really repentant. The girl has been given a new identity because of a campaign of harassment. There has been no attempt by Evans through the media to get the idiots to stop.
I know reasonable people could interpret the facts of the case differently but I don't see how anyone could think that he has anyone but himself to blame for the mess he got himself into.
I don't think this is a legal issue. The club can do what they like. But I wouldn't employ this man and I wouldn't take my son to a game where fans were likely to chant his name.

supersonic

Maybe he is innocent. He has stuck to his guns throughout. As far as I am aware, he and another player took her back to a hotel room and both of them had sex with her. She cannot remember having sex with Evans - yet he admitted he had done so (consensually) - she went to the police afterwards as she wasn't sure. He was convicted because it was deemed she was in no fit state to consent. Yet the other person walked free. Would she have even known she had had sex with Evans if he did not admit to it? Maybe DNA evidence. Did she wake up and think I better check this out, and if it happened I've been raped?

southdownswolf

Coach H - yes it is her choice. But it is not her choice as to whether he can play football again.

he is going for appeal, what happens if he is exonerated? Will all these people change their minds or will he still be subjected to all the hatred?

plodder73

Well I've just seen the end of a football match on sky, goalkeeper for Plymouth and club captain is Luke McCormack the scumbag who killed two kids whilst drunk. Surely that crime is worse than Evans. Couldn't believe my eyes when I saw him disgrace, should still be in prison for a few more years.

t4tomo

Plodder73 wrote:

Well I've just seen the end of a football match on sky, goalkeeper for Plymouth and club captain is Luke McCormack the scumbag who killed two kids whilst drunk. Surely that crime is worse than Evans. Couldn't believe my eyes when I saw him disgrace, should still be in prison for a few more years.

I agree with that.

The Ched Evans case is a tricky one and it's not the most convincing of convictions. It's hard to see how the jury can release find his mate innocent and evans guilty. The girl claims no memory of events, they boys claim consent was given, and the jury finds she consented to sex with one stranger, but not with an another, presumably based on speculation rather than evidence. All 3 have the morals of an alley cat but that is largely irreverent in law.

imposter2.0

Manc33 wrote:

Yep, its great to tell all the kids you can do one monumental screw up in your life and get away with it once. :roll:

How exactly is being tried, found guilty and jailed for 2.5 years 'getting away with it'..??

Mikey23

guy has served his time...

are footballers in any way special because they are footballers? surely just a guy doing his job. even is he is a twassock. visiting fans are not going to give him an easy time i suspect

sloppyschleckonds

I'd hazard a guess that some crimes should be treated different to others, thats why sentencing is different.

kajjal

This is a very difficult one. On the one hand he has served time and been released but on the other hand would you be comfortable letting a convicted rapist near female staff and visitors to the club ?

Very tough call to make. If he was to offend again whoever let him back into the club would be crucified.

Guanajuato

Blimey. The most balanced discussion of this I've come across. I've not commented anywhere else because the debate is generally so polarised - either you think he should be strung up by his nads from the Wicker Archers or you think rape is perfectly acceptable.

Being a Unitedite, it's a difficult time as my club's name is being dragged through the mud by some very vocal people on both sides of the debate. We're hardly the media's (or FA's) favourite club after sticking to our guns on Wet Sham's cheating & FA cowtowing those years ago.

The other guy in the case was not guilty essentially because it was reasonable for him to believe he had consent as she'd gone into the hotel with him. Ched came along later. Given that he had a girlfriend at the time, that in itself was wrong, although not illegal. But the jury found Ched guilty. Unless he clears his name, he IS guilty of rape. Definitely guilty of being an abhorrent little shit and an arrogant one at that. In his statement video, he condemns rape but the media seem to have cut that bit out. They also seem to have embellished the facts and repeatedly referred to him as a 'violent rapist' when no violence was involved.
But he HAS served his custodial time and is out on license for the rest of his sentence. Our justice system relies on rehabilitation. He's not the sharpest tool in the box (just watch his video statement to see how much he struggled with reading!) so would basically be condemned to a life on the dole. It seems certain people in the media and others seem to equate the idea of suggesting he should be allowed to rehabilitate to condoning rape, which is the most bizarre conclusion to draw.
As for being a 'global star', we're in the 3RD DIVISION playing teams like Fleetwood Town, Rochdale & Doncaster (stop sniggering supersonic), even if we are a MASSIVE club. When in a premiership team and a championship team, he was terrible so its unlikely he'll play at a higher level for much of his career purely based on ability. Not that that is relevant in any way. My opinion is that he should be able to resume his career without the extra judicial stuff being aimed at him, but he'll have a hard time finding a club and no doubt be on significantly less than he was before he was sent down.

The club are taking a sensible route and condemning the hateful stuff aimed at Jess Ennis & Charley Webster and also condemning the mob justice. WE won't be subject to 3rd part influence on team selection. ;-) Latest statement from the club is that anyone caught doing such stuff will be banned from Bramall Lane for life.

tangled_metal

It's all interesting debate and raises questions. I get that if you boil it down to it the other guy met the lass and took her to the hotel so the jury thought, like him, that it was or could be considered consenting to sex. Reasonable doubt and all that. I reckon the jury thought CE was not under the same level of doubt so was guilty. Either way both men, and those filming outside, are not really innocent of stepping over the line of reasonable behaviour IMHO. No matter what anyone says I'll never believe it right to have sex with someone your mates pulled for you and certainly not if there's a a doubt that she's able to consent to it. That's trouble for all involved.

The other point is 5 years with 2.5 years served in prison before being released is not wrong in itself but I do think there should be some accounting for the convict not accepting the verdict of the trial and thereby not actually being rehabilitated. If he's truly innocent then he should proceed through the legal process but not be released until he wins the appeal and conviction is quashed or he's served the full term. Just my view and not the system in place obviously.
I do believe the released should be allowed back into the work they were in before trial if there is no legal reason that can't happen such as the job involves working with vulnerable adults/kids but in that case they'd not get through the CRB checks anyway. CE is able to play football but IMHO never should be allowed to coach or mentor anyone. Turn up and train/play but go home without getting into any of the club/ community promotional activity players often do. That would make that player less of an asset. Perhaps lower wages and other benefits are the result for him.

One thing I don't like is how the name of the victim got out and now she's under protection and has lost her life as she had it. If CE gets his life back and she doesn't then although that sh1t happens it's still wrong. IIRC her name came out from the defendant's side. BTW CE's biggest supporter is his girlfriend's father, who's loaded. He's paying for lawyers and his "I'm totally innocent, no really I am" website he's got up. Which I hope few get truly taken in by. It's like he's got a PR thing going on. Just like the anti-CE lot have through the twittersphere. Another thing I dislike. It should be the courts to decide on legal matters and to hell with the trial by popular opinion. Then again I'm really not a fan of Twitter on the whole rather it wasn't around and nothing like it at times.

imposter2.0

Kajjal wrote:

This is a very difficult one. On the one hand he has served time and been released but on the other hand would you be comfortable letting a convicted rapist near female staff and visitors to the club ?

What - in case he tries to rape them as well? Don't be absurd.

kajjal

Imposter wrote:

Kajjal wrote:

This is a very difficult one. On the one hand he has served time and been released but on the other hand would you be comfortable letting a convicted rapist near female staff and visitors to the club ?

What - in case he tries to rape them as well? Don't be absurd.

If you are married ask your wife if she would like to work in the same office as a convicted rapist. My point was you have to consider the feelings and safety concerns of the female staff members and visitors.

imposter2.0

So nobody convicted of rape can ever be rehabilitated - is that what you are saying?

ballysmate

It appears Sheffield United have caved in to the lynch mob and won't offer him a contract after all.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... riker.html

If he does win his appeal and the conviction gets quashed, I am sure the lawyers will rake it in.

kajjal

Imposter wrote:

So nobody convicted of rape can ever be rehabilitated - is that what you are saying?

You seem to be misunderstanding my posts. I did not say no rapist can be rehabilitated or that they would be necessarily do it again. What I said was while in this case he has served his time but would female members of staff or female visitors to the club have safety concerns. They have to be listened to as well.

I asked you if your wife would feel safe working in an office with a convicted rapist to see if you could empathise with the safety concerns all women carry with them during their lives.

My final point was if he is allowed back into the club and did reoffend the person that made that decision would be crucified. This is not to say this is right or wrong but this is what would happen in this case.

I am not going to post again on this emotive issue.

pblakeney

Kajjal wrote:

Imposter wrote:

So nobody convicted of rape can ever be rehabilitated - is that what you are saying?

You seem to be misunderstanding my posts. I did not say no rapist can be rehabilitated or that they would be necessarily do it again. What I said was while in this case he has served his time but would female members of staff or female visitors to the club have safety concerns. They have to be listened to as well.

I asked you if your wife would feel safe working in an office with a convicted rapist to see if you could empathise with the safety concerns all women carry with them during their lives.

My final point was if he is allowed back into the club and did reoffend the person that made that decision would be crucified. This is not to say this is right or wrong but this is what would happen in this case.

I am not going to post again on this emotive issue.

Will he be allowed to walk down the street?

ballysmate

PBlakeney wrote:

Kajjal wrote:

Imposter wrote:

So nobody convicted of rape can ever be rehabilitated - is that what you are saying?

You seem to be misunderstanding my posts. I did not say no rapist can be rehabilitated or that they would be necessarily do it again. What I said was while in this case he has served his time but would female members of staff or female visitors to the club have safety concerns. They have to be listened to as well.

I asked you if your wife would feel safe working in an office with a convicted rapist to see if you could empathise with the safety concerns all women carry with them during their lives.

My final point was if he is allowed back into the club and did reoffend the person that made that decision would be crucified. This is not to say this is right or wrong but this is what would happen in this case.

I am not going to post again on this emotive issue.

Will he be allowed to walk down the street?

Perhaps he will be allowed to walk down the street if he wore an emblem. If not a yellow star, perhaps a yellow football.

imposter2.0

Kajjal wrote:

I asked you if your wife would feel safe working in an office with a convicted rapist to see if you could empathise with the safety concerns all women carry with them during their lives.

She may well have worked in an office with a convicted rapist, for all she knows and for all I know. Your own wife (or partner, whatever) may well have been served in a shop by such an individual recently. Or he may even have been round to fix your roof/boiler/washing machine, etc, etc - without her (or you) even realising that the guy was a convicted rapist, who had served his time and been rehabilitated. Unless the guy includes the title 'ex-rapist' on his business card, or on the side of his van, then you will have no way of knowing. But that's what rehabilitation is all about, whether you realise it or not (I'm guessing not)...

wiznaeme

Can anyone tell me if the football club took disciplinary action against the footballer when he was convicted? It just seems strange to me that he was sent to prison (regardless of the crime) but that he wasn't sacked either for simply not being at his work or because he brought the club into disrepute. If I went to prison I would not expect to walk back into my old job. Does anyone know?

tangled_metal

We probably know more rehabilitated criminals than we think we do. There's no way of knowing unless you apply to find out. IIRC there is now a legal right, through application with the police I believe, to find out about sex offenders registered in your area. Also to find out if your partner has history of domestic violence. IIRC these are relatively new laws, with restrictions. All this is a side issue because people know about CE. So if you ask female workers at the football ground/team are happy or feel completely safe being around him, knowing what he did, there islikely to be some who are uncomfortable to say the least. Employers have a duty of care to them, more so than CE who is no longer an employee. Taking him on they should consider the views of employees over and above his want for a job.

I really don't care as not a football fan and I'm never going to meet him. Also I doubt any female member of my family or female friends Will ever meet him. If they do it'll never be in a hotel room put it that way. It's a story to be forgotten about like all the other cases of jailed footballers.

Quick question, anyone know if pro footballers have a higher level of criminal offences than other team sports such as rugby union? Does football have a proportionally higher offending rate? Is there something wrong with the sport culture?

imposter2.0

WiznaeMe wrote:

Can anyone tell me if the football club took disciplinary action against the footballer when he was convicted? It just seems strange to me that he was sent to prison (regardless of the crime) but that he wasn't sacked either for simply not being at his work or because he brought the club into disrepute. If I went to prison I would not expect to walk back into my old job. Does anyone know?

Evans was sacked by the club shortly after his conviction, as you might expect. And he hasn't 'walked back into his old job' either. Although he might be training with the club, it doesn't mean he is under contract...

Guanajuato

He wasn't actually sacked. His contract was allowed to expire as it was up a couple of weeks after the trial. Had he been sacked, due to the players having all the power through the PFA - absurd though it seems, he'd have had to have been paid off AND compensated. :?

I'm more embarrassed by the actions of a few morons who claim to be Blades. They can bog off to bellend road or swillsborough as far as most Blades are concerned. Or go for a play in the midde of Tinsley Viaduct.

Matthewfalle

Ballysmate wrote:

PBlakeney wrote:

Kajjal wrote:

Imposter wrote:

So nobody convicted of rape can ever be rehabilitated - is that what you are saying?

You seem to be misunderstanding my posts. I did not say no rapist can be rehabilitated or that they would be necessarily do it again. What I said was while in this case he has served his time but would female members of staff or female visitors to the club have safety concerns. They have to be listened to as well.

I asked you if your wife would feel safe working in an office with a convicted rapist to see if you could empathise with the safety concerns all women carry with them during their lives.

My final point was if he is allowed back into the club and did reoffend the person that made that decision would be crucified. This is not to say this is right or wrong but this is what would happen in this case.

I am not going to post again on this emotive issue.

Will he be allowed to walk down the street?

Perhaps he will be allowed to walk down the street if he wore an emblem. If not a yellow star, perhaps a yellow football.

Every year my kiddies' school give out reflective stickers for the little 'unsigned to wear when walking home - you know, heavy reflective yellow jobs.

They are normally in the shape of a circle.

This year the entire school is walking around with yellow stars on...........

Anyway, back to the rapist.

jawooga

Devil's advocate question: Would you expect the celebrities convicted on operation ewe tree evidence be allowed to serve their time, and then come back to do what they were good at, and present Top Of The Pops?

ballysmate

jawooga wrote:

Devil's advocate question: Would you expect the celebrities convicted on operation ewe tree evidence be allowed to serve their time, and then come back to do what they were good at, and present Top Of The Pops?

That would be up to their employers. Whether I watch, is my decision.

southdownswolf

jawooga wrote:

Devil's advocate question: Would you expect the celebrities convicted on operation ewe tree evidence be allowed to serve their time, and then come back to do what they were good at, and present Top Of The Pops?

I'm really not sure how you can compare the cases....