High gear or low?

earth
earth Posts: 934
edited November 2014 in Road general
When describing what gear ratio you are in do you say a gear that is harder to push but causes you to travel further forward for each revolution of the crank is a higher or lower gear?

And following from that when moving to a gear that is harder to push ... are you moving up the cassette or down?

Comments

  • Sirius631
    Sirius631 Posts: 991
    Higher
    Down
    To err is human, but to make a real balls up takes a super computer.
  • katiebob
    katiebob Posts: 208
    I could never remember but it was explained to me as follows...

    In a car the lowest gear is 1st gear - the gear you start to travel in.
    You move up to the higher gears (3,4,5) as you get quicker :-)
  • me-109
    me-109 Posts: 1,915
    I would describe the gear I am in as smart office wear.

    Ignoring the term 'harder to push' (because it might not be) then in development terms, a higher gear is one with more travel per revolution of the cranks than a lower gear. At the wheel/freewheel/cassette end, then gears are numbered 1 - n, where '1' is the innermost sprocket and n is the outermost sprocket available.

    So to change 'up' a gear, you go 'down' the cassette. To 'change down', means to go down a gear, hence up the cassette.
  • DeVlaeminck
    DeVlaeminck Posts: 9,106
    I've voted A. I think for everone a higher gear is one that produces more travel per turn of the cranks. The second bit was a bit more questionable, I think saying change up or down comes from cars where you change up to get into a higher gear so I've gone with that - saying change up the cassette to get a lower gear doesn't sound right to me - don't people just say "change up" without adding "the cassette" .
    [Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]
  • earth
    earth Posts: 934
    Wording is everything for this question :roll:

    When I say moving up the cassette I really mean moving to a smaller sprocket and I don't care what you are wearing!


    Now this is going to invite the wrong comment: To get higher I always go up.
  • CiB
    CiB Posts: 6,098
    As KatieBob says, same as a car. 1st gear is the lowest = easy but slow, high gears are harder but provide more speed for the same crank revolutions.

    Lowest gear is the low ratio 39/28, highest is high ratio 53/11. You change up from the former to the latter, with up being up to a higher ratio.
  • earth
    earth Posts: 934
    CiB wrote:
    As KatieBob says, same as a car. 1st gear is the lowest = easy but slow, high gears are harder but provide more speed for the same crank revolutions.

    Lowest gear is the low ratio 39/28, highest is high ratio 53/11. You change up from the former to the latter, with up being up to a higher ratio.


    That's my view. I go by the ratio. 39/28 = 1.392, 53/11 = 4.818. The gear that increases progress is the higher ratio and going higher involves going up.
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,356
    earth wrote:
    CiB wrote:
    As KatieBob says, same as a car. 1st gear is the lowest = easy but slow, high gears are harder but provide more speed for the same crank revolutions.

    Lowest gear is the low ratio 39/28, highest is high ratio 53/11. You change up from the former to the latter, with up being up to a higher ratio.


    That's my view. I go by the ratio. 39/28 = 1.392, 53/11 = 4.818. The gear that increases progress is the higher ratio and going higher involves going up.
    This.
    It is simply a shorter way of saying a higher gear ratio.
    Or gear in inches for the old school.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • earth
    earth Posts: 934
    I asked this question after using the turbo. I was watching the training videos on uTube and they all seem to use the opposite convention.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    I talk about bigger & smaller, where bigger gear inches is bigger etc
    _
  • d_o_g
    d_o_g Posts: 286
    It IS the second. ;)

    The higher/low gearing point is not the issue, this is universally accepted, it's how the transition to that higher gear is completed that is the potential issue. The key is to separate the two.

    To go to the higher gear you do shift down the cassette - as you transit from larger sprockets to smaller ones. Conversely, on the chainrings, you shift up to the big ring.

    Simple. :P
  • earth
    earth Posts: 934
    D O G wrote:
    It IS the second. ;)

    The higher/low gearing point is not the issue, this is universally accepted, it's how the transition to that higher gear is completed that is the potential issue. The key is to separate the two.

    To go to the higher gear you do shift down the cassette - as you transit from larger sprockets to smaller ones. Conversely, on the chainrings, you shift up to the big ring.

    Simple. :P

    Why is going from a larger sprocket to a smaller one considered to be going down? It leads to a higher ratio and you go up to get higher. Is it because it is going towards the outer most sprocket and therefore the same as shifting to the big ring?
  • d_o_g
    d_o_g Posts: 286
    Down in sprocket size.
  • d_o_g
    d_o_g Posts: 286
    earth wrote:
    It leads to a higher ratio and you go up to get higher.

    Not up a cassette. You have to separate the two concepts - the answer to one is not the answer to the other.
  • Initialised
    Initialised Posts: 3,047
    I'd describe being in my lowest gear (lowest gear ratio e.g. 34/28 Road or 22/34 MTB) as 1-1 and highest as 2-9 (50/11 on the road double) or 3-9 (44/11 on the MTB triple).

    An upshift increases the gear ratio, a downshift decreases the gear ratio, don't overthink it.
    I used to just ride my bike to work but now I find myself going out looking for bigger and bigger hills.
  • CiB
    CiB Posts: 6,098
    D O G wrote:
    earth wrote:
    It leads to a higher ratio and you go up to get higher.

    Not up a cassette. You have to separate the two concepts - the answer to one is not the answer to the other.
    Nah. It's not as if it's ever the subject of a conversation - "Hank, change up two gears now" - or even something to actively think about. You ride your bike, you change gear up & down. You don't change cassette, you change gear. Gears are referenced by ratio.
  • marcusjb
    marcusjb Posts: 2,412
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    I talk about bigger & smaller, where bigger gear inches is bigger etc

    Taller or shorter as well.

    Not that I change gear very often these days, think it was August when I last changed.
    Stuff about riding a bike a long way
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,468
    D O G wrote:
    It IS the second. ;)

    The higher/low gearing point is not the issue, this is universally accepted, it's how the transition to that higher gear is completed that is the potential issue. The key is to separate the two.

    To go to the higher gear you do shift down the cassette - as you transit from larger sprockets to smaller ones. Conversely, on the chainrings, you shift up to the big ring.

    Simple. :P

    This is the correct answer. End of debate.
  • earth
    earth Posts: 934
    edited November 2014
    CiB wrote:
    D O G wrote:
    earth wrote:
    It leads to a higher ratio and you go up to get higher.

    Not up a cassette. You have to separate the two concepts - the answer to one is not the answer to the other.
    Nah. It's not as if it's ever the subject of a conversation

    It is when you are watching turbo training videos and they say change down two gears. To me that means change to a lower ratio not a higher ratio.

    Over thinking it is bothering what size the sprockets are. It is the ratio that you are trying to change regardless of the mechanics of doing it. What if you have hub gears and have no idea what kind of mechanical witchcraft is going on inside the hub?
  • d_o_g
    d_o_g Posts: 286
    earth wrote:
    It is when you are watching turbo training videos

    Woaah! There's your issue. Get off the turbo and go outside!
  • earth
    earth Posts: 934
    edited November 2014
    The other flaw in this sprocket argument is that you can also change to a lower ratio by changing to a smaller chainring.

    But it has already been stated that changing to a bigger ring is shifting up therefore changing to a smaller ring must be shifting down so in that case shifting down it results in a lower ratio - as it should.
  • earth
    earth Posts: 934
    D O G wrote:
    earth wrote:
    It is when you are watching turbo training videos

    Woaah! There's your issue. Get off the turbo and go outside!


    When I say watching I do mean while on the turbo, in the weekday evenings, when it is dark and raining outside. I'd rather not use the turbo but it's better than being run over on some dark country lane.
  • davep1
    davep1 Posts: 837
    Katiebob wrote:
    I could never remember but it was explained to me as follows...

    In a car the lowest gear is 1st gear - the gear you start to travel in.
    You move up to the higher gears (3,4,5) as you get quicker :-)

    This is how I think of it too; Top Gear in a car is 5th (or 6th/7th/8th depending on how modern your car is!).

    If you were racing, you would drop down a gear before a corner or hill to accelerate through it.

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