Zonda profile differences

johngti
johngti Posts: 2,508
edited November 2014 in Road general
Just wondering if anyone knows what the actual difference is in the profile of the 1-way and 2-way fit zondas? How wrong would it be to fit tubeless to 1-way fit rims - what will go wrong?

Comments

  • dj58
    dj58 Posts: 2,223
    I don't know as I don't own a set, but have you seen the video on the campy website?

    http://www.campagnolo.com/WW/en/Technologies/2_way_fit

    There are downloadable pdf files at the bottom of the page in the link below, under Technical Documentation, Instruction Sheets tab.

    http://www.campagnolo.com/WW/en/Wheels/wheel_zonda

    May give you an idea to the difference in the profiles. People do fit tubeless tyres to non tubeless specific wheels using the Stan's kit, however there is a possibility that they might unseat themselves from the bead seat.
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,317
    DJ58 wrote:
    May give you an idea to the difference in the profiles. People do fit tubeless tyres to non tubeless specific wheels using the Stan's kit, however there is a possibility that they might unseat themselves from the bead seat.

    They do mainly on low pressure knobbly tyres. High pressure road tyres are more dangerous, of course
    left the forum March 2023
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,667
    johngti wrote:
    what will go wrong?

    Guessing the tyre will come away from the rim.
    Call me a marketing sucker if you like but I am not going to try it to find out.
  • Bobbinogs
    Bobbinogs Posts: 4,841
    Is there an echo in here?
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,667
    think so,Is there an echo in here?
  • johngti
    johngti Posts: 2,508
    An echo? In here?
  • DKay
    DKay Posts: 1,652
    "QUACK!"
    N
    N+1
  • pinarellokid
    pinarellokid Posts: 1,208
    I thought the 2 way referred to running standard or tubular tyres. Not tubeless, I already thought they were tubeless ready due to the lack of spoke holes and rim tape of any type.

    I may be wrong though
    Specialized S Works SL2 . Campagnolo Record 11spd. rolling on Campag Zonda wheels

    http://app.strava.com/athletes/881211
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,317
    pinarellokid wrote:
    I thought the 2 way referred to running standard or tubular tyres. Not tubeless, I already thought they were tubeless ready due to the lack of spoke holes and rim tape of any type.

    I may be wrong though

    You couldn't be more wrong
    left the forum March 2023
  • johngti
    johngti Posts: 2,508
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    pinarellokid wrote:
    I thought the 2 way referred to running standard or tubular tyres. Not tubeless, I already thought they were tubeless ready due to the lack of spoke holes and rim tape of any type.

    I may be wrong though

    You couldn't be more wrong

    Agreed (done a bit more research). Apparently the two way fit have a system campagnolo have called Ultra Fit with a more pronounced lip around the rim to hold a tubeless tyre in place. Otherwise the wheels are identical; so the issue isn't the airtight-ness, it's the fact that on the clinchers, there's a risk the tubeless tyre would pop off.

    Next set of wheels I buy will have the option :)
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,317
    johngti wrote:
    Next set of wheels I buy will have the option :)

    Yeah, it's a bit silly that in the 21st century bicycles are the only creatures on the road with inner tubes and running huge tyre pressure. It's a thing of the past. 27-30 mm tubeless tyres at 50-80 PSI are the future of road cycles
    left the forum March 2023
  • dj58
    dj58 Posts: 2,223
    And the sooner the bike manufacturers start producing more bikes with the appropriate fork and frame clearances, the better.
  • philbar72
    philbar72 Posts: 2,229
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    johngti wrote:
    Next set of wheels I buy will have the option :)

    Yeah, it's a bit silly that in the 21st century bicycles are the only creatures on the road with inner tubes and running huge tyre pressure. It's a thing of the past. 27-30 mm tubeless tyres at 50-80 PSI are the future of road cycles

    only when they fit the frame. Bah humbug... :)
  • pinarellokid
    pinarellokid Posts: 1,208
    That's me educated. Glad I didn't try it now lol
    Specialized S Works SL2 . Campagnolo Record 11spd. rolling on Campag Zonda wheels

    http://app.strava.com/athletes/881211
  • JoostG
    JoostG Posts: 189
    johngti wrote:
    Just wondering if anyone knows what the actual difference is in the profile of the 1-way and 2-way fit zondas? How wrong would it be to fit tubeless to 1-way fit rims - what will go wrong?

    Can't give any guarantees, but I used a regular zonda (1 way fit as you call it) tubeless with Schwalbe ones. No problems at all and soon I will use the same zonda's with vittoria cross XG pro tubeless on my cyclocrosser.

    I compared the zondas with my eurus 2 way fit, and to the eye there aren't much differences. The only difference I see is a slightly different rim 'bed' (so the tubeless tyre will 'pop' better). If the lip is different, it's more for airtightness than safety I guess. The regular zonda rim isn't airtight. A small hole is drilled into the rim. Isolation tape will do the trick.

    Poping off is an argument that I hear often, but I don't cross a single story where that really happened. Especially if you keep in mind that you can run tubeless tyres at really low pressure (in my case 5/5.5 with my 71kg), I wouldn't be afraid that such a thing will happen. In return you'll have much more adhesion (is that the right word?) and no exploding inner tubes and a more comfy ride.
  • johngti
    johngti Posts: 2,508
    JoostG wrote:
    johngti wrote:
    Just wondering if anyone knows what the actual difference is in the profile of the 1-way and 2-way fit zondas? How wrong would it be to fit tubeless to 1-way fit rims - what will go wrong?

    Can't give any guarantees, but I used a regular zonda (1 way fit as you call it) tubeless with Schwalbe ones. No problems at all and soon I will use the same zonda's with vittoria cross XG pro tubeless on my cyclocrosser.

    I compared the zondas with my eurus 2 way fit, and to the eye there aren't much differences. The only difference I see is a slightly different rim 'bed' (so the tubeless tyre will 'pop' better). If the lip is different, it's more for airtightness than safety I guess. The regular zonda rim isn't airtight. A small hole is drilled into the rim. Isolation tape will do the trick.

    Poping off is an argument that I hear often, but I don't cross a single story where that really happened. Especially if you keep in mind that you can run tubeless tyres at really low pressure (in my case 5/5.5 with my 71kg), I wouldn't be afraid that such a thing will happen. In return you'll have much more adhesion (is that the right word?) and no exploding inner tubes and a more comfy ride.

    Now that's interesting to know... whereabouts is the hole drilled?
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,317
    johngti wrote:
    JoostG wrote:
    johngti wrote:
    Just wondering if anyone knows what the actual difference is in the profile of the 1-way and 2-way fit zondas? How wrong would it be to fit tubeless to 1-way fit rims - what will go wrong?

    Can't give any guarantees, but I used a regular zonda (1 way fit as you call it) tubeless with Schwalbe ones. No problems at all and soon I will use the same zonda's with vittoria cross XG pro tubeless on my cyclocrosser.

    I compared the zondas with my eurus 2 way fit, and to the eye there aren't much differences. The only difference I see is a slightly different rim 'bed' (so the tubeless tyre will 'pop' better). If the lip is different, it's more for airtightness than safety I guess. The regular zonda rim isn't airtight. A small hole is drilled into the rim. Isolation tape will do the trick.

    Poping off is an argument that I hear often, but I don't cross a single story where that really happened. Especially if you keep in mind that you can run tubeless tyres at really low pressure (in my case 5/5.5 with my 71kg), I wouldn't be afraid that such a thing will happen. In return you'll have much more adhesion (is that the right word?) and no exploding inner tubes and a more comfy ride.

    Now that's interesting to know... whereabouts is the hole drilled?

    I would assume at the joint, so opposite to the valve.

    If you want to use a non tubeless rim with tubeless tyres, it is a balancing act: on the one hand you don't want too high pressure, which can blow the tyre out of the rim, but you don't want it to be too low, as it can lead to air leaking (burping) as you hit a hole or a kerb. There is a sweet spot and depending how wide the sweet spot is in terms of pressure range, it allows you to ride them or give you a lot of grief. A bigger tyre is probably your safest bet... something like Schwalbe One 28 can be ran at 70 PSI or even lower
    left the forum March 2023
  • JoostG
    JoostG Posts: 189
    Where? I found two: one in the outer sidewall, and one in the inner 'bed'. I guess they're meant to 'de-water' the rim.

    High pressure and blowing it out of the rim; isn't that what will happen to a regular clincher as well. And what would be the purpose of an high pressured tubeless tyre? Too low on pressure and burping is a problem, but I guess only if you're talking about pressure as low you use on a cyclocrosser. If you stick to manufacturers manual (in case of Schwalbe 5.0-8.5 bar) and use it on the road, you're not going to face issues.

    With my current experiences I'm confident enough to try vittoria cross CX pro (TNT version) at 3.0 bar (45psi) in combination with my normal zonda's.
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,317
    JoostG wrote:
    With my current experiences I'm confident enough to try vittoria cross CX pro (TNT version) at 3.0 bar (45psi) in combination with my normal zonda's.

    You mean XG? I use them.. at 45 PSI they're hard as bricks and don't really work on the mud... 30 is good and if you can push it towards 25 even better... but you need tubeless rims for that... 8)
    left the forum March 2023
  • JoostG
    JoostG Posts: 189
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    JoostG wrote:
    With my current experiences I'm confident enough to try vittoria cross CX pro (TNT version) at 3.0 bar (45psi) in combination with my normal zonda's.

    You mean XG? I use them.. at 45 PSI they're hard as bricks and don't really work on the mud... 30 is good and if you can push it towards 25 even better... but you need tubeless rims for that... 8)

    Aha, so there will be a challenge... Currently I'm using cheap Schwalbe CX Pro (I guess I know where I got that 'CX pro' part from) and I'm running those on 3.0bar and the rims are taking a lot of hits. But I'm new to cyclocross and have a lot to test.

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