Help needed drafting rules for our cycling club

mm1

Endless grief over why with 200+ members its always touch and go whether there will be enough people to marshall events that the club promotes.

Gazzetta67

All of the above. +. DONT tell new members that they have 5 mins to fix a puncture whilst there are 20 other riders standing watching or talking to each other. ...yes a certain cycling club in Glasgow told a guy that and he politely told them to F*$€ off then I'd rather cycle on my own....good on him

bondurant

Assuming you are talking about Kingston Wheelers Ugo? I had no idea we annoyed you so much.

pinno

Bondurant wrote:

Assuming you are talking about Kingston Wheelers Ugo? I had no idea we annoyed you so much.

...a tumbleweed moment...

madasahattersley

10) Petty arguments amongst members who have never met over the internet

slowmart

Some of the more negative comments on behaviours could be cut and pasted and referred to this forum….. :shock:

Colinthecop

And that's just the moderators....

qube

Taxi for Colin!

pblakeney

Qube wrote:

Taxi for Colin!

To the airport again?

pinno

PBlakeney wrote:

Qube wrote:

Taxi for Colin!

To the naughty step again?

FTFY

He probably enjoys getting whipped.

Colinthecop

Harsh...

I didn't say which moderator. Some of them may actually have a sense of humour.... :P

pblakeney

pinarello001 wrote:

PBlakeney wrote:

Qube wrote:

Taxi for Colin!

To the naughty step again?

FTFY

He probably enjoys getting whipped.

We all know what I meant.

qube

Colinthecop wrote:

Harsh...

I didn't say which moderator. Some of them may actually have a sense of duty.... :P

FTFY.... Again.

ugo.santalucia

Bondurant wrote:

Assuming you are talking about Kingston Wheelers Ugo? I had no idea we annoyed you so much.

I am NOT talking about the Kingston Wheelers... I only live in Richmond since 2012

secretsam

Dippydog3 wrote:

Come and ride with us. You are welcome.

1) Endless arguments about riding pace and riding standards
We never argue about anything. Fast riders go fast if they want to. Slow riders always go slow. No point joining a club if you just want to ride at your own pace.

2) Endless talks about nonsense things like "riding etiquette", "two abreast policy" and "mudguards in winter"
We have never mentioned or discussed any of this.

3) Endless grief with club kit that is always inevitable shabby, loose fit, dreadful in quality and late, but somewhat compulsory to comply with the club policy and BC insurance.
No club policy, no club kit, No BC insurance, But quite nice kit that you can buy if you want to. Or not. Don't confuse us with a club that gives a whatsit.

4) Endless changes of group rides to accomodate for every level of ability, down to "I have just removed the stabilisers" level
We are a bit more market driven. If you want to ride then turn up. If you don't like what happens then don't turn up again. Seems to work. We have gone from zero to 60 members in a year in a small area.

5) Endless search for volunteers to lead 10 mph beginners rides that nobody wanted in the first place
The owner of the LBS is a member and he always does these. Good way of meeting new customers.

6) Endless arguments between committee members for micro-power and micro-management
No committee, no management. If something needs doing we are normally thrilled if someone just does it.

7) Endless greed and need for an increasing membership fee, which inevitably gets accumulated in a bank account, as nobody has a clue of what the money should be spent on or why the club actually needs any money in the first place
No fees, no bank account.

8 ) Endless number of charity initiatives, which you feel compelled to contribute to or volunteer for.
Oops, none of these either. :oops:

9) Endless talks of "we need to have more women and more diversity in the club" when you just wanted to go for a bloody ride with a few mates!
Age range from 17 year old girls to 70 year old blokes, but I guess the majority are middle aged men and younger women. Form a membership queue here.........

Seriously, that sounds like my idea of a club. All this AGM bollocks is too much like work. I just know that my local club will have someone with an adenoidal voice who wants everyone to do what he (and it will be a "he") says. I've seen their website. There are rules. And the club colours are naff.

I also don't want to hear about someone's trip to Outer Bongo-Bongo land on a Penny Farthing for the Terminally Dithering Fuckwits charity. If I wanted that I'd go along to the CTC, wearing plus fours and dreaming of owning an old Dawes Galaxy.

I just want to ride and make some friends who ride.

ugo.santalucia

SecretSam wrote:

I just want to ride and make some friends who ride.

Sanity is in the numbers... keep it within 20-30 members top and you can have a ride-only club... pass that number and someone will start to have ideas... there are a few common beliefs which not only are wrong, but are detrimental for a club

1) The club needs a structure

2) The club needs to grow

3) The club needs a policy

It's all bollox... as structure creates friction, growth creates a lot more friction and all the the policy you need is to be found in the highway code

pinno

We have calculated that there are 23 regular cyclists in this locality. I say 'we' - the one's that meet up where the Old Wheelers used to meet on a Sunday at 9am. There was 8 of us two weeks ago. A whole 8!!
There are no rules, we just stick together for the majority and the loops we take allows people to drop out and go a short way home if they want.
Of the other 13 or so that don't come along with us, we wonder why? Even talking to them and trying to encourage them to ride with us seems to fall on deaf ears. I honestly think that they have no idea how many more miles you can ride in a group, swapping at the front and how much more genial it is.
I would have two rules. Everybody agree to meet up at a mutual time and ride together for at least three quarters of the ride.

mamba80

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Sanity is in the numbers... keep it within 20-30 members top and you can have a ride-only club... pass that number and someone will start to have ideas... there are a few common beliefs which not only are wrong, but are detrimental for a club
1) The club needs a structure
2) The club needs to grow
3) The club needs a policy

It's all bollox... as structure creates friction, growth creates a lot more friction and all the the policy you need is to be found in the highway code

this nonsense, if everyone thought like you, they d be no road races, no TT's possibly no sportives (so a good thing!)
No BC, no GO Ride or Go Race, no structure for youth progression, so an over riding success!!!???

I ve seen what happens when a club rip themselves to bits, for example RUTT CC in Plymouth, usually caused by some power crazed xxxx, but there are plenty other vibrate clubs where everyone rubs along just great.

Colinthecop

mamba80 wrote:

where everyone rubs along just great.

I thought we agreed on 'No Touching'...?

pblakeney

mamba80 wrote:

this nonsense, if everyone thought like you, they d be no road races, no TT's possibly no sportives (so a good thing!)
No BC, no GO Ride or Go Race, no structure for youth progression, so an over riding success!!!???

I ve seen what happens when a club rip themselves to bits, for example RUTT CC in Plymouth, usually caused by some power crazed xxxx, but there are plenty other vibrate clubs where everyone rubs along just great.

And that nonsense is what drives away recreational cyclists.
There needs to be 2 types of clubs.

1. Race clubs which train, compete and marshall.

2. Social clubs which get together purely for the joy of riding bikes. And possibly coffee & cake.

Mixing the two is a recipe for disaster although a rider could be in both.

NeXXus

PBlakeney wrote:

Mixing the two is a recipe for disaster although a rider could be in both.

My club does just this and is the biggest of the 5 or 6 local to me. Everybody mingles just fine

Dippydog3

PBlakeney wrote:

mamba80 wrote:

this nonsense, if everyone thought like you, they d be no road races, no TT's possibly no sportives (so a good thing!)
No BC, no GO Ride or Go Race, no structure for youth progression, so an over riding success!!!???

I ve seen what happens when a club rip themselves to bits, for example RUTT CC in Plymouth, usually caused by some power crazed xxxx, but there are plenty other vibrate clubs where everyone rubs along just great.

And that nonsense is what drives away recreational cyclists.
There needs to be 2 types of clubs.

1. Race clubs which train, compete and marshall.

2. Social clubs which get together purely for the joy of riding bikes. And possibly coffee & cake.

Mixing the two is a recipe for disaster although a rider could be in both.

You are almost dead right.

The only thing is that coffee snd cake should be mandatory. Especially if you have punctured and are therefore paying!

mamba80

PBlakeney wrote:

mamba80 wrote:

this nonsense, if everyone thought like you, they d be no road races, no TT's possibly no sportives (so a good thing!)
No BC, no GO Ride or Go Race, no structure for youth progression, so an over riding success!!!???

I ve seen what happens when a club rip themselves to bits, for example RUTT CC in Plymouth, usually caused by some power crazed xxxx, but there are plenty other vibrate clubs where everyone rubs along just great.

And that nonsense is what drives away recreational cyclists.
There needs to be 2 types of clubs.

1. Race clubs which train, compete and marshall.

2. Social clubs which get together purely for the joy of riding bikes. And possibly coffee & cake.

Mixing the two is a recipe for disaster although a rider could be in both.

As can be seen on this forum, some people just cause trouble, what ever type of club social or other wise they are in, so called racing clubs have their splits and arguments too, just as much as a social outfit might, it comes down to leadership of the club, a lot of people think they are suitable to be committee members but the reality is that few are capable of doing a good job of gelling a club together.
But if BC relied on so called racing clubs and members it would be a very small set up and all of the things I mentioned wouldn't happen.
even a club like mid devon cc probably has only about 5% if that, of their membership actually racing, so what you are calling for is pie in the sky.

pblakeney

mamba80 wrote:

even a club like mid devon cc probably has only about 5% if that, of their membership actually racing, so what you are calling for is pie in the sky.

No.
What I am stating is reality.
The majority of cyclists don't race.
The majority of cyclists don't care about racing outside of the three majors. And that is being generous. TdF is it.

I will agree 100% that this statement is depressing and leads to a depressed pool of winners but that does not retract from the fact.

The majority of people are struggling to find time to actually cycle, far less give up time to volunteer to watch others do it. That may be sad but it is fact.

ugo.santalucia

I start by saying that I don't think much of the current road race and time trial scene... essentially it's a bunch of hopeless middle agers who have seen the Tour de France on TV and want to have a go at racing... not sure why this should be endorsed at club level, but fair enough.

As above, when a club grows to the point that a number of members are interested in the above activities, then fine, but normally a club starts with a bunch of individuals who want to go for a sunday ride... then two years later it is taken over by the charity/activity brigade who need to turn it into their own personal creation.

British Cycling endorses clubs, as essentially they do a bit of work in return for nothing, or a badge saying they are good boys, but really I am not quite sure what British Cycling has ever done for me without me having to pay for it.

My experience is that of someone who is not interested in any of the activities Mamba mentions and would rather not be involved, hence stays out of trouble and club free. Selfish? Possibly, but I should be allowed to be selfish in my hobby... not sure why everything has to turn into a charitable activity

bontie

Clubs are good and essential to the growth of cycling.
Personally, I have been a member of a large club near me. Went on a handful of rides and didn't enjoy the vibe.
I now ride with small likeminded mates. We are not a club, but have has as many as 12 on a Saturday morning. Said rides have been going for 10 years.

Clubs are cool, for some. It doesn't make it wrong to want to belong to a club or start one.

A little birdy told me there has been a recent fallout even at Kingston wheelers...

None of this is new.

crescent

ugo.santalucia wrote:

As above, when a club grows to the point that a number of members are interested in the above activities, then fine, but normally a club starts with a bunch of individuals who want to go for a sunday ride... then two years later it is taken over by the charity/activity brigade who need to turn it into their own personal creation.

British Cycling endorses clubs, as essentially they do a bit of work in return for nothing, or a badge saying they are good boys, but really I am not quite sure what British Cycling has ever done for me without me having to pay for it.

My experience is that of someone who is not interested in any of the activities Mamba mentions and would rather not be involved, hence stays out of trouble and club free. Selfish? Possibly, but I should be allowed to be selfish in my hobby... not sure why everything has to turn into a charitable activity

I could not agree more. I enjoy being part of a club but going out and cycling with mates and/or on my own is very important to me as well and equally enjoyable. I resent the "unspoken" pressure within the club that you should make every effort to ride an event just because it is for "charidee". Generally speaking I ride where I want, when I want - if I don't fancy the look of a club Sunday ride then I'll give it a miss. Several times in the past I have avoided rides because they are created by someone who is trying to outdo the guy who made up the previous week's route - "This is much further/harder/hillier than last week, that was too easy etc etc" - willy waggling basically. As soon as I sense it is degenerating into this I'm out on my own that week. Thankfully these occasions are few and far between now.

pinno

From what Ugo said, despite the rise of cycling in the UK, nothing much has changed amongst British Clubs.

It used to be that French clubs would lend bikes and give coaching to as well as providing transport to and from events for the equivalent category 2 or above rider. Sometimes, they used to pay a little and split winnings. In the early 90's, they were even advertising for cat 2 racers in the comic. Despite all this and the (previously?) well structured nature of their racing scene, it befuddles me that they haven't got a better showing in the pro ranks.

Perhaps the rise in cycling in the UK is just a ten fold increase in MAMILS.

pblakeney

pinarello001 wrote:

Perhaps the rise in cycling in the UK is just a ten fold increase in MAMILS.

Nail on the head I think.

t4tomo

mamba80 wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Sanity is in the numbers... keep it within 20-30 members top and you can have a ride-only club... pass that number and someone will start to have ideas... there are a few common beliefs which not only are wrong, but are detrimental for a club
1) The club needs a structure
2) The club needs to grow
3) The club needs a policy

It's all bollox... as structure creates friction, growth creates a lot more friction and all the the policy you need is to be found in the highway code

this nonsense, if everyone thought like you, they d be no road races, no TT's possibly no sportives (so a good thing!)
No BC, no GO Ride or Go Race, no structure for youth progression, so an over riding success!!!???

I ve seen what happens when a club rip themselves to bits, for example RUTT CC in Plymouth, usually caused by some power crazed xxxx, but there are plenty other vibrate clubs where everyone rubs along just great :shock: :shock: .

Unintentional irony I think - that is Ugo's point, not everyone thinks alike and at some point, certian members /factions impose or try to impose theirthought of the perfect club on the rest of the memebership.

:shock: :shock: Brilliant typo. club kits made from leather & PVC?