How often do waterproofs require reproofing?

earth

I have some NikWax technical wash and some reproofer. But I use my waterproof everyday, NikWax costs a fortune and I find it does not last more than a week. Today I got soaked because it just doesn't work. The rain soaks into the material instead of beading off and after 20 minutes I am getting wet.

I've read the recent BR article on the subject and it suggests the DWR will only stick to existing DWR but it can be washed off. So have I left it too long between reproofing and it will never work again?

BTW its a Rapha City Rain jacket. Is anything they make really waterproof? What about the Hardshell jacket or a GoreTex jacket?

pippi_langsamer-2

I don't believe any waterproof for cycling is actually worth it- they just make you sweat (to varying degrees), and keep your sweat warm at least so you don't get cold. You think it's keeping you dry coz you're warm, but most of the time they ain't.

imposter2.0

Agree with above - the need for 'waterproofs' is massively over-stated, IMO. Getting wet is inevitable. Keeping warm is the main issue, wet or not.

sloppyschleckonds

Skin is waterproof last time i chequed

earth

My experience is if the jacket lets water through it waterlogs anything underneath and you get cold through wind chill or when you stop. If we accept that water always gets through then next it will be neoprene wet suits.

But back to the original question. How often does DWR require reproofing? Am I expecting too much to be able to do it once every 3 months? I think thats a lot.

Elfed

SloppySchleckonds wrote:

Skin is waterproof last time i chequed

Where do I sign?

jermas

If your Rapha jacket is good to use in drier conditions-just keep using it. When it's raining hard, use a packable waterproof jacket over the top. As above, you'll get damp (sweating) but not soaked.
I find an "emergency" jacket invaluable in heavy rain.

No waterproof jacket has enough breathability to keep you bone dry during intense exercise in the rain. Whilst raining the humidity in the air reaches 100%, so water vapour (sweat) inside the jacket has nowhere to go.

iPete

Are you washing the jacket after every ride?

Personally, if you are doing a commute where you change at the end of the ride (I'm guessing you are?), I would get a windproof jacket and concentrate on being warm.

Anonymous

I thought you needed to re proof when they stop beading water.
Did you pop it in the tumble dryer? I think the chemicals are heat activated.

I thought it was water resistant (rather than water proof) stuff that needed re proofing.
I re proof my soft shells every 6 months, but I don't wear them that much.

nibby

Have you contacted Rapha about it?

Sir Velo

Make sure you use the Nik tech wash before reproofing, you need to thoroughly but gently lift dirt and grime off the garment first. Otherwise you are applying a DWR onto dirt, not really going to work.

I have tech washed and then proofed my Rapha rain jacket and it seems to work very well. But again I don't use it to commute and therefore it's not getting the same amount of wear as your city jacket.

As others have said they shouldn't be washed too often.

Do you wear rain city rain jacket every day? surely there hasn't been many weeks when it is raining on every commute? If it is it raining then something warm but not necessarily waterproof.

SV

pippi_langsamer-2

SloppySchleckonds wrote:

Skin is waterproof last time i chequed

So you're the one responsible for the tribes of Mamils on the roads in wet, 6deg weather! :idea:

True enough though. If racing in the rain, I won't wear leggins etc as they just get wet n stay wet. The effort associated with racing means your generally going to stay warm enough. Baby Oil gel is also good for adding an extra layer of watershedding :oops:

earth

I use it for commuting mainly so it gets daily use this means I don't wash it after every use.

I wash it in Nik Wax tech wash before washing it again in reproofer. I don't leave it to dry between tech wash and reproof but I will try that next wash. I don't tumble dry, the garment says not to and the Nik Wax instructions say not to.

I would like to wash it as soon as water stops beading off but this happens after about a week of use so it costs too much.

jermas

Tesco sells (cheap) liquid soap flakes which is basically what tech-wash is. It cleans just as well and doesn't affect the DWR.

earth

jermas wrote:

Tesco sells (cheap) liquid soap flakes which is basically what tech-wash is. It cleans just as well and doesn't affect the DWR.

Do you know what they are called?

MichaelW

earth wrote:

jermas wrote:

Tesco sells (cheap) liquid soap flakes which is basically what tech-wash is. It cleans just as well and doesn't affect the DWR.

Do you know what they are called?

Dri-Pak

I use it on my 10-year-old Paramo jacket. I wash every 2-3 months and re-proof once/year.

Paramo takes up TX.Direct better than nylon materials.

earth

MichaelW wrote:

I use it on my 10-year-old Paramo jacket. I wash every 2-3 months and re-proof once/year.

That's mroe like it

The link to TX.Direct has it for £8.50 but a quick search and I found some other online seller for £2.99 for 750ml

Techwash is about £3 for 100ml.

I don't mind washing it more frequently now.

jermas

In Tesco store it's in the delicate clothes wash area --about £3 not £8.50 as on the web

earth

I can wash it more often now but that doesn't explain why the DWR stopped working after about a week when I reproofed it.

earth

I've washed it again in TechWash exactly as it said on the jacket and it hasn't even come clean. The same dark patches of grime are there. :evil:

dj58

Have a read through these FAQ on the Gore website.
http://www.goreapparel.co.uk/FAQs/cs-fa ... l#04Answer

earth

DJ58 wrote:

Have a read through these FAQ on the Gore website.
http://www.goreapparel.co.uk/FAQs/cs-fa ... l#04Answer

The FAQ says 40^ wash with warm tumble drying. Thing is the garment is not GoreTex and the care instructions say 30^ wash and no tumble drying. Not to mention I have no tumble dryer.


It's true that its not raining every day and in summer I do not wear it every day. But it doubles as a high vis jacket for this time of year so I do wear it every day in the autumn, winter and some spring months.

I've never found a breathable waterproof jacket that is waterproof or breathable. Even if I wore nothing at all, as earlier posters suggested, I would still perspire on the ride.

Maybe the way to go is forget breathability and go for a completely nonporous membrane that is a total physical barrier between the outside and the inside. Throw it on when necessary and live with the boil in the bag consequences.

MichaelW

Don't let ANY detergent contaminate the PWR layer, even residue in the washing machine.
Paramo is quite warm but unbeatable for breathability + water resistance. I use mine in the dry <15C and can ride all day in heavy rain in relative, un-clammy comfort.

You need a series of windproof and waterproof tops of varying permeability, venting and water-proofness.
eg windproof top with waterproof gillet

dj58

Well yes I agree you should follow the instructions on the garment label. I have a Gore oxygen active jacket and the printed card tag label care instructions conflicted with what was printed on the garment label.

I queried this with Gore and interestingly they advised using the spray on type reproofing rather than the wash in.

What jacket do you have?

earth

DJ58 wrote:

Well yes I agree you should follow the instructions on the garment label. I have a Gore oxygen active jacket and the printed card tag label care instructions conflicted with what was printed on the garment label.

I queried this with Gore and interestingly they advised using the spray on type reproofing rather than the wash in.

What jacket do you have?

Rapha City Rain Jacket.

earth

MichaelW wrote:

Don't let ANY detergent contaminate the PWR layer, even residue in the washing machine.
Paramo is quite warm but unbeatable for breathability + water resistance. I use mine in the dry <15C and can ride all day in heavy rain in relative, un-clammy comfort.

You need a series of windproof and waterproof tops of varying permeability, venting and water-proofness.
eg windproof top with waterproof gillet

I run the washing machine on an empty rinse cycle first to wash out any left over detergent. I don't think I have ever washed it with detergent but if I did would it be irreversible?

BTW which Paramo is it?

earth

First wet ride today after I washed the jacket in techwash and reproofed only a few days ago. Rain did not bead off. It started wetting out immediately. :x

MichaelW

If you screw up the re-proofing with contamination, solvent, detergent, you have to start over again with a soap/techwash then reproof.
To remove oil stains, you need a solvent (eg swarfega).
Chain spray lube has an effective solvent, ie will eat PWR.
If I want to get really serious, I dryclean, then techwash/reproof

My old Paramo is a Cuzco. The new ones are thinner, lighter, more venting, rear pocket , non-removable hood and foul colours.

mikenetic

earth wrote:

I can wash it more often now but that doesn't explain why the DWR stopped working after about a week when I reproofed it.

Having spoken to Rapha about the best way to reproof my rain jacket they did recommend that it once the DWR was applied after washing that it's tumble-dried or dried close to a radiator. Heat is important in activating the coating correctly.

earth

I don't think I messed up the reproofing. I put the machine on a rinse cycle to clean out any detergent residue before washing the jacket - I always do. I washed it at 30^ in techwash as per the care instructions. It was still grubby after washing. I left it to dry after the tech wash before washing again in reproofer. I did not tumble dry - care instructions say not to but I did leave it hung above a radiator to dry. The care instructions also specifically say not to dry clean.

I haven't talked to Rapha about it so I suppose that's the next step. Maybe they will clarify the care instructions because there does seem to be some contradiction over whether to apply heat or not.

StorckSpeed

Nikwax works great on Gore-Tex, Event and most other waterproof fabrics but not all.
I have a Rossignol ski jacket rated at 10,000mm and have washed it and a Gore-Tex Jacket at the same time. Worked great on the Gore-Tex jacket and not on the Rossi at all. Haven't tried it with the Grangers stuff.
Seems like the material the Rossi jacket is made of just doesn't absorb the NIKWAX.