Clamping bikes :O

notamondayfan

Let's just take a step back.

All it says is "ring to release", not "there is a fee to release the bike".

Playing devils advocate here, but perhaps the company will release it for free, but just want to make it clear that bikes maybe shouldn't be parked there?!

Also, one way round this is to find a lock smith who will pick the lock, or learn you're self. That way you are releasing the bike your self, without criminal damage. Then return the lock and chain to the local police station. I've seen this done with wheel clamps on cars, where the wheel is removed, then the clamp, and the clamp returned to the owners.

Another angle you could take is that you need the bike to earn money, and by clamping the bike you will be suing them for loss of earnings.

Dean

bikaholic

The correct course of action for the bike owner is to cut off the lock and to take it away with them for disposal.


By dialling the number, you will (most probably) have to give your name, address and contact telephone number in order to release the bike.

What might a scammer do with the pieces of information that you have willingly submitted?

If I were a scammer, I would prey on the bike owner's sense of morality (because only the most morally upright and upstanding people would make the call in the first place) by sending them an official looking court demand letter...

If I were an information broker, I'd sell the info to junk mail companies and burglers...


Rhetorical question: who wants to be shot?

The correct anwser is to not enter into the game by responding to the question.


So, people, don't be constrained by your strong sense of morality to take actions that appear seemingly wrong.


PS, if you find superglue in your lock or, that a heavy-duty lock has been put onto your bike, then it means that the thief didn't have the necessary tools at hand and will come and liberate it at a more convenient time.

The Rookie

bikaholic wrote:

The correct course of action for the bike owner is to cut off the lock and to take it away with them for disposal.

That's the correct course even if it's criminal damage? Wow, let me know where you live so I can come and smash the place up, it will be Ok I'll just say it was the correct course of action and I'm sure you'll be fine with that?

bikaholic

The Rookie wrote:

bikaholic wrote:

The correct course of action for the bike owner is to cut off the lock and to take it away with them for disposal.

That's the correct course even if it's criminal damage? Wow, let me know where you live so I can come and smash the place up, it will be Ok I'll just say it was the correct course of action and I'm sure you'll be fine with that?

Like I stated previously, some people aspire to be so morally upright that they fear to do what appears to be wrong.

Lets follow through with your criminal damage argument and how you will enforce it.

A bicycle does not have a registration plate.

This point alone will render the criminal damage argument and enforcement useless.

So, how else would you prove criminal damage? Video the bike owner actually in the act of cutting the cable, you say?

In order to do that, you must first prove that the lock belongs to you and not the bike owner - so, you video yourself putting the lock onto the bike.

But this would be setting up a honey trap - aka entrapment...

Ok, so you don't video yourself putting the lock onto the bike to avoid the situation of entrapment, you just video the bike owner removing the lock instead.

What if the bike owner shields his activities from view, cuts the lock and takes it away with him?

Since it would seem like the bike owner removed his own lock on video, and no physical evidence has been left behind, criminal damage can't be proved.

Ok, so you intercept the bike owner while he puts the damaged lock into his bag..., but this would risk exposing yourself and incurring the wrath of the bike owner. Again, criminal damage can't be proved. If you say you have the key to the damaged lock, then it would fall back to entrapment again.

There are a few other obvious points and circumstances which dictate that nothing of any consequence will happen to the bike owner but I am sure that you can figure them out yourself...

The Rookie

Whether it is CD or not is a matter of fact, the fact they may not (or may...) be able to trace the perpetrator doesn't change that - you seem to be confusing committing the crime and being able to prove you committed the crime, sometimes it is right to do what is morally write anyway unless you are some sort of sociopath, however it's still a gamble that you can only surmise they don't know, they may have excellent CCTV imagery and traced the bike rider to where they work for example?

This is someone's property (the land and furniture) and that someone has decided they don't want bikes left there and is taking steps to stop it happening, that is their right, (I'm sure you'd be OK if I came and parked on your front lawn?) We don't know what signs are in place or even if there is a release fee or not.

diy

There really isn't any possible defence of entrapment. Further if you take steps to conceal the removal to avoid being caught then you'll find it hard to have a defence of an honest belief that you had a lawful reason to remove it.

One of the reasons these firms use warning notices is because their rights and possible damages to remedy via trespass are very weak. These are publicly open spaces and the landowner is highly unlikely to have the exclusive possession, which is key to a claim of trespass. Their angle is really one of license to access the site and establishment of a contract of service via a warning.

I wouldn't have much faith in a magistrate if you started arguing the weird and wonderful, of course you could always leave a sticker stating your terms for anyone who attaches a lock to your bike giving you the right to dispose of it. I recall a solicitor brought a case against a private clamper for the disposal of his wheel clamp in accordance the terms and conditions displayed on the car. it was quite a smart way to head of a claim in a civil court.

The Rookie

Entrapment doesn't exist as a distinct concept in UK law, even in American law it relates to someone acting as an 'agent provocateur' and totally different to suggested above which could never be entrapment, there seems to be a common misunderstanding of the word entrapment these days!

diy

Police and Criminal Evidence Act allows for evidence gained through "entrapment" to be excluded from trial, so there can be a way to get a case thrown out due to lack of evidence. However, this scenario is wildly off.

There have been quite a few high profile ones recently where under cover plod crossed the line - typically the evidence is excluded and the case collapses due to lack of evidence.

andymphillips

The Rookie wrote:

Oh well if they do and read this post, we'll see you in court for aiding and abetting....don't be a Neanderthal all your life!

Who are you referring to as a Neanderthal Rookie?

After reading all your messages, I am wondering if you work for this bunch of crooks

bikes`n`guns

I can`t even believe all this discussion.

Simply remove the lock from your bike and walk away.

What on earth are they going to do about it ?

In Scotland this would be demanding money with menace and they would be prosecuted.

The Rookie

andymphillips wrote:

The Rookie wrote:

Oh well if they do and read this post, we'll see you in court for aiding and abetting....don't be a Neanderthal all your life!

Who are you referring to as a Neanderthal Rookie?

After reading all your messages, I am wondering if you work for this bunch of crooks

The people suggesting others just cut it off with absolutely no understanding of the legal situation.....which if the cutting off is a criminal offence (which it may well be, we've be shown nothing to suggest otherwise) would make it aiding and abetting, that's punishable by a prison offence (though very unlikely in this case), myself I don't do things generally that could get me put in prison, it makes getting a job and travelling a real pain, so I like to stick to fact based advice and not shooting from the hip.

I think it's obvious from my post count I don't work for them but am a keen cyclist, perhaps you should read the whole thread and all my replies before, well, shooting from the hip?

chris_bass

I think it would be fitting if this thread got even more heated and ended up being locked

diy

Saw what you did there