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Hubs again

socratessocrates Posts: 453
edited November 2014 in Road buying advice
Maybe a good one for Ugo. PMP, Tune or Chris King R45. Any advantages or disadvantages? Durability? Servicing etc?

Posts

  • cyclecliniccycleclinic Posts: 6,865
    Chris king are over priced cartridge bearing hubs. Pretty but you do need expensive tools to service and expensive hubset. 345g for a pair They are relaible but so are miche hubs. Lots of drilling options

    PMP are like an Italian version of Royce appartantly. No experience of them though. weight unknown to me and I don't care either.

    Tune- light weight no epxerience of them though except if you buy them from germany and have a warranty issue the distributor Posh bikes will tell you were to go. This is one reason why I will not use Tune hubs - the distributor is not helpful. They once asked me how do we know your a shop, the conversation ended there. Some tune hubs (MTB ones) need a tool to pull the freehub off not sure if this applied to the mig/mag road hubs though.
    Weight from a bit over 200g for a pair are they relaible - I have no idea.

    You have not mentioned
    White Industires T11. The rear shimano hub has 5 bearings in it and the campagnolo version has 6. The bearings are not big but given the number of them it leads to long bearing life. Ti freehub 345g for the pair. Lots of drilling options

    Royce - perfection. Reliable and classy. One colour though and that Royce. Simple to service. Ti freehub.2x 6001 NTN bearing in main shell and 6901 bearings in the freehub. 435g for a pair lots of drilling options and Royce hubs will now be shimano 11 speed compatible. Must get these new ones for the shop.

    Dura Ace 9000. these are brilliant. Cup and cone hubs are easy to service and you need to service them. 18H front will soon be available. 370g for the pair and could last a lifetime. 18H, 24H, 28H, 32H and 36H

    Campagnolo Record - black only and 32H. Shimano freehub available (steel), campagnolo freehub is alloy. 343g pair for the campagnolo version. Campagnolo hubs are the perfect design, cup and cone but unlike shimano the bearing cups are replacable so you can never trash them beeyond repair. Perfection apart from the drilling restriction.

    Cheaper options.
    Hope mono mini - good hubs but Hope alloy freehubs are very soft. Quite light and lots of drilling options and colours.
    Miche Primato, simple big 6001 bearings, steel axle, alloy freehub that does not notch easily, 11 speed compatible, simple to service + bearing preload adjuster. 435g for a pair and very reliable.
    Novatec A171/F172 6001 bearings and simple to service. Reliable.

    Flashy hubs are nice, I have a number like Campagnolo Record 28H O/S axle silver too and chorus O/S axle hubs 32H, Royce Ti/carbon hubs e.t.c. But while these are nice none of them require expensive tools to service. Cartridge bearings hubs do need care or a good press when pushing in new bearings but that it. Chris Kings require a whole lot more investment, which most shops don't have. I ride on Miche hubs quite regularly and race on them without issue.

    So I would recomend White Industries T11 or Dura Ace 9000 for something high end, has good geometry and is reliable. Dura Ace 9000 has all that in spades. Also the distributor madison has a good warranty department should anything go wrong which iot probably won't. Sideways cycles who distribute White Industries are also helpful., problem with these hubs is also rare. Royce couldn't be more helpful if they tried.
    http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.
  • PMP is an interesting company. They make mechanical components and have an expertise in machining metal alloys. The cycling components are only a part of the business, but taking advantage of the former, they have the most incredible tolerances, which in turn result in long bearing life and trouble free use.
    You would normally pair them with a Campagnolo groupset as I don't even think they have an 11 speed Shimano option yet.
    They are not the latest, they are not the lightest, but they might well be the best. Harry Rowland and Derek at Wheelsmith have been using them for years, among others.
    As you buy them direct from the factory in Italy, the current favourable pound-euro exchange rate make them reasonably good value over other options
  • cyclecliniccycleclinic Posts: 6,865
    PMP hubs do come in pretty colours as well.
    http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.
  • Any practical experience with Goldtec as another UK made option?

    http://www.mountainbikecomponents.co.uk/items.asp?CategoryID=120&Name=Goldtec+Road+Hubs+%2D+Rims+%2D+Wheel+Build+Options

    Split the difference between WI & King weight wise, seem to share DT's ideas when it comes to rear hub geometry.
  • JonEdwards wrote:
    Any practical experience with Goldtec as another UK made option?

    Only fixed gear ones... they are very popular, but never built a geared one... solid stuff
  • cyclecliniccycleclinic Posts: 6,865
    The flange seperation on goldtec geared hubs for the rear is like a DT Swiss hub i.e not very good. For that reason I don't use them. Just read you whole post, you seem to have figured that out.
    http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.
  • socratessocrates Posts: 453
    Thanks for the replies. Was originally going with Tune but have now narrowed it down to PMP or DA. Would like to have gone Campag but the drilling restriction puts me off.
  • I was nosing around PMP's distributors website yesterday. Can report they do indeed do 11 speed shimano freehubs. Their alloy clinchers look very tempting.
  • cyclecliniccycleclinic Posts: 6,865
    DA is perfect, lighter and last forever if looked after. Don't let the drilling of Campagnolo record hubs put you off, they are excellent, superior to every other hub in production down to the replacable bearing cups and the external preload adjuster. Light too at 343g if an alloy freehub is used and an alloy freehub for shimano is available. Light 1500g wheels are easily doable with these hubs if weight is your concern.
    http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.
  • g00seg00se Posts: 2,221
    Yup - the Record preload adjusters great. One little hex-key and you don't take the wheels out of the frame/forks.
  • mrushtonmrushton Posts: 5,182
    PMP roll beautifully but their lockring was (May have changed) specific to them. You had to have a specific tool for it. Rohan Dubash may give you more info on PMP.
    M.Rushton
  • mrushton wrote:
    PMP roll beautifully but their lockring was (May have changed) specific to them. You had to have a specific tool for it. Rohan Dubash may give you more info on PMP.

    True, but they supply lockring and tool with the rear hub... of course if you break it, you need a replacement... on the other hand, who breaks lockrings? Surely someone who shouldn't get anywhere near a cassette
  • mrushtonmrushton Posts: 5,182
    Ah, it's when the lockring remover and/or the tool has been 'misplaced' that issues arise!
    M.Rushton
  • secretsamsecretsam Posts: 4,840
    DA is perfect, lighter and last forever if looked after. Don't let the drilling of Campagnolo record hubs put you off, they are excellent, superior to every other hub in production down to the replacable bearing cups and the external preload adjuster. Light too at 343g if an alloy freehub is used and an alloy freehub for shimano is available. Light 1500g wheels are easily doable with these hubs if weight is your concern.

    So can be built into nice, long lasting strong wheels - what could I get for £350 using these hubs? If anything?!?!!?!?!? I love Campag so am keen to get AMAP on my bike :mrgreen:

    It's just a hill. Get over it.
  • cyclecliniccycleclinic Posts: 6,865
    £350 with DA will buy you some hubs, a pair of cheap rim and a few spokes and thats it. With record hubs about the same but you would get decent rims. Not a complete wheelset though. For £350 look at novatec or Miche hubs as they are quite decent (miche have the external preload adjuster), then you can afford the rims and spoke you want and maybe have some change.
    http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.
  • giant_mangiant_man Posts: 6,890
    mrushton wrote:
    PMP roll beautifully but their lockring was (May have changed) specific to them. You had to have a specific tool for it. Rohan Dubash may give you more info on PMP.

    True, but they supply lockring and tool with the rear hub... of course if you break it, you need a replacement... on the other hand, who breaks lockrings? Surely someone who shouldn't get anywhere near a cassette
    Mine came with both the lockring and tool as you say. PMP are great hubs.
  • secretsamsecretsam Posts: 4,840
    £350 with DA will buy you some hubs, a pair of cheap rim and a few spokes and thats it. With record hubs about the same but you would get decent rims. Not a complete wheelset though. For £350 look at novatec or Miche hubs as they are quite decent (miche have the external preload adjuster), then you can afford the rims and spoke you want and maybe have some change.

    OK, thanks for this

    Just a quick question for a noob: there's lots of talk about sealed vs cup 'n' cone on here, but which is 'better'? I'd have thought sealed units which can be easily replaced would need less maintenance???

    It's just a hill. Get over it.
  • SecretSam wrote:
    Just a quick question for a noob: there's lots of talk about sealed vs cup 'n' cone on here, but which is 'better'? I'd have thought sealed units which can be easily replaced would need less maintenance???

    There isn't an easy answer to this... but there are complicated ones... :mrgreen:

    Angular contact bearings (cup and cone to you and me) are design to carry load, so if you are heavy or carry luggage, they are better than sealed units, but as you point out they might require a bit of maintenance and replacement of the individual units is costly and not always possible, due to the limited availability of spares.

    Sealed cartridges are not designed to carry load, but just to roll, so ideal for lighter riders. They die, you replace them and restore day one functionality pretty easily. If you are your own worst DIY enemy, they are the ones for you.
    Of course one could fit angular contact cartridges, which do exist, although I have never heard of anyone doing so and there might be reasons for it being a bad idea.
  • northpolenorthpole Posts: 1,499
    Thing is Uno, having long time ago demoted a bike to daily commuter and being completely guilty of failing to carry out anything like regular maintenance of the wheels, I'd just note that my 7800 series DA wheels/ hubs (rims are near shot but still original!) still run true and smoothly - they were new in 2006. I'm around 13.5 stone in old money. They owe me nothing and have provided fantastic service over the years. That's coming from a Campy man!

    Peter
  • northpolenorthpole Posts: 1,499
    Ugo even!!

    Peter
  • cyclecliniccycleclinic Posts: 6,865
    ACB bearings would require a chamered bearing seat in the hub like in a headset.
    http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.
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