Electric bikes revisited - and recommendation please ....

EKE_38BPM

The Rookie wrote:

.....though of course they are not zero emission despite the BS above.

Well, zero emission "at the tail pipe", unless it is charged by solar, then it really is zero emission.

As an aside, have you ever looked into the amount of energy (electricity) needed to refine crude oil into petrol (and other products too, of course)? It is a lot! So as well as the emissions "at the tail pipe" of internal combustion engines, you should also include the emissions of the refining process.
I'm a recent convert into the belief that electric vehicles (maybe not unicycles) are the future and the future is here now (or at least just around the corner).

mudcovered

EKE_38BPM wrote:

I'm a recent convert into the belief that electric vehicles (maybe not unicycles) are the future and the future is here now (or at least just around the corner).

For small vehicles like bikes/mopeds maybe. For cars its a lot less clear cut as there are a couple of scenarios that all electric cars just can't handle.

1. Long distance journeys. (Haven't seen an electric car with a range that would cover some of my 1 day drives).
2. How to charge the thing if you can't park it near enough to your house to plug in. Actually I'd go further and say that the overnight charge point needs to be in an indoor secure location or some scrote is going to come along and unplug it.

I'm also not convinced that they are cheaper to run than a petrol driven car based on current electricity and petrol process (although I've not really looked as the overnight charge issue is a showstopper for me. ).

Mike

EKE_38BPM

mudcovered wrote:

EKE_38BPM wrote:

I'm a recent convert into the belief that electric vehicles (maybe not unicycles) are the future and the future is here now (or at least just around the corner).

For small vehicles like bikes/mopeds maybe. For cars its a lot less clear cut as there are a couple of scenarios that all electric cars just can't handle.

1. Long distance journeys. (Haven't seen an electric car with a range that would cover some of my 1 day drives).
2. How to charge the thing if you can't park it near enough to your house to plug in. Actually I'd go further and say that the overnight charge point needs to be in an indoor secure location or some scrote is going to come along and unplug it.

I'm also not convinced that they are cheaper to run than a petrol driven car based on current electricity and petrol process (although I've not really looked as the overnight charge issue is a showstopper for me. ).

Mike

1. The Tesla Model S has a range of about 300 miles. A Nissan Leaf has a range of about 120 miles. The number of charging points is on the up. A Tesla rapid charge gets you an 80% charge in less than 10 minutes. A 'normal' rapid charge (for a Leaf or example) gets you an 80% in about 15 minutes. Yes, its not as convenient as fossil, but its heading in the right direction.
2. There is no solution that I know of for 'anywhere' on street charging overnight at the moment, but if you have a regular parking place (e.g.I have a bay in an estate) then you can get induction charging, which you don't have to plug in. You park the car as normal and a pad set into the ground (under the tarmac or bolted on top) and it wirelessly charges the car.

A Leaf costs about £4 to fully charge on-peak, and less than £2 off-peak. £2 for 120 miles!
Tesla have a network of rapid chargers which are free to use and they say they always will be. So, 300 miles for free. Always.

I know the Tesla is crazy expensive. Merc S Class territory, but if you have zero fuel charges and minimal servicing costs* then the long-term ownership costs tumble. And if you have solar panels on your house...
I think I'm right in saying that the Tesla is outselling the S Class in Yankland, and the Audi A8, and the BMW 7 Series. ALL PUT TOGETHER!
The new Tesla (a 5+2 seater S Class rival) has the same 0-60 time as a McLaren F1!!!!!!!

There has been a hell of a lot of negative press about electric cars, but if you do you're own research and not rely on what the mainstream media spoon feeds you (like I did) then you will probably come to the same conclusionI have.

*Servicing for a Leaf is not much more than rotating the tyres, changing the pollen filter and topping up the screenwash.

Ian.B

EKE_38BPM wrote:

2. There is no solution that I know of for 'anywhere' on street charging overnight at the moment, but if you have a regular parking place (e.g.I have a bay in an estate) then you can get induction charging, which you don't have to plug in. You park the car as normal and a pad set into the ground (under the tarmac or bolted on top) and it wirelessly charges the car.

These are all over Paris and can be used for any electric car I believe, not just Autolib ones

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@48.8847293,2.3307228,3a,75y,261.69h,74.56t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1smlR_xxtSiKa7FRJy4DZRmQ!2e0

mudcovered

EKE_38BPM wrote:

1. The Tesla Model S has a range of about 300 miles. A Nissan Leaf has a range of about 120 miles. The number of charging points is on the up. A Tesla rapid charge gets you an 80% charge in less than 10 minutes. A 'normal' rapid charge (for a Leaf or example) gets you an 80% in about 15 minutes. Yes, its not as convenient as fossil, but its heading in the right direction.
2. There is no solution that I know of for 'anywhere' on street charging overnight at the moment, but if you have a regular parking place (e.g.I have a bay in an estate) then you can get induction charging, which you don't have to plug in. You park the car as normal and a pad set into the ground (under the tarmac or bolted on top) and it wirelessly charges the car.

A Leaf costs about £4 to fully charge on-peak, and less than £2 off-peak. £2 for 120 miles!
Tesla have a network of rapid chargers which are free to use and they say they always will be. So, 300 miles for free. Always.

*Servicing for a Leaf is not much more than rotating the tyres, changing the pollen filter and topping up the screenwash.

The Tesla range and rapid chargers are approaching the level of practicality that is needed for on the move charging and at least Tesla have a sane view about how much range a car need to have between refueling stops. Shame the car is out of my price range.

That assumption about a reserved parking pay is a laugh for most of this country. In some of the places I've lived you are lucky if you can park the car in the same street let alone near your house so those inductive chargers would have to be layed under both sides of the road in a continuous line to be practical in the way that petrol cars are.

There is one servicing cost you have missed which is replacing the batteries. Not an issue if you buy new and sell after 3 years but a lot of people keep cars for far longer than that. AlthoughI understand that some of the manufacturers have set things up so that's covered by them.

I'd love it if these problems were solved but it isn't going to happen soon. Still petrol cars were in the same place 100 years ago so if there is the will and the demand these problems will be solved. And if the petrol runs out they will be solved rather quickly or there will be an awful lot more bikes on the road.

Mike

EKE_38BPM

mudcovered wrote:

The Tesla range and rapid chargers are approaching the level of practicality that is needed for on the move charging and at least Tesla have a sane view about how much range a car need to have between refueling stops. Shame the car is out of my price range.

That assumption about a reserved parking pay is a laugh for most of this country. In some of the places I've lived you are lucky if you can park the car in the same street let alone near your house so those inductive chargers would have to be layed under both sides of the road in a continuous line to be practical in the way that petrol cars are.

There is one servicing cost you have missed which is replacing the batteries. Not an issue if you buy new and sell after 3 years but a lot of people keep cars for far longer than that. AlthoughI understand that some of the manufacturers have set things up so that's covered by them.

I'd love it if these problems were solved but it isn't going to happen soon. Still petrol cars were in the same place 100 years ago so if there is the will and the demand these problems will be solved. And if the petrol runs out they will be solved rather quickly or there will be an awful lot more bikes on the road.

Mike

There are at least two Toyota Priuseseseses that are being used as minicabs and have one million miles on the clock, on the same batteries. There is no denying that over a very long time the batteries will deteriorate but nowhere near as rapidly as the naysayers, erm, say. And even when they do deteriorate to a point when the owner feels that they need to be changed, then they can still be used for other, less intensive, applications e.g. power storage for a domestic solar installation.

I have no argument for the on-street parking problem. The nearest I can get is that Nissan have a locking charger thingymabob to prevent scrotes unplugging it. I think the cable is armoured to prevent someone cutting it and even if they did, I doubt they'd do it a second time as they are something pretty sporty like 30 amps at 250 volts. That'd put a skip in your step.
When I went to a Nissan dealership to ask about test driving a Leaf, the first thing they asked me was if I had a garage or driveway as you'll need one or the other for the electrics to charge it. I lied and said yes so that I could go for a spin around the block. Nice car, but I'd want a proper test drive, including motorways, before I thought about putting my hand in my pocket (assuming I had some way of charging it).

Tesla are very much leading the charge (pun intended) with EVs and the fact that they are outselling the S-Class et al in a market not exactly known for tree hugging and yoghurt knitting shows that they can be made to work and as demand increases and technology improves, prices will drop.

Tesla have gone all open source on their battery technology, rather than holding onto their patent, so that anyone can use it and hopefully all EVs will improve. Big up Tesla.