Carbon vs steel vs titanium

tlw1

Weighing up the options for a new bike build, it's to celebrate finishing my MBA so unless I go carbon it's probably an additional bike (number 6)

Current thoughts are:

Look 675 lightweight (carbon)
Either van Nicholas or lynskey (titanium)
Condor, Brian rourke (953) or colnago masters (steel)

Would like any views on these or the alternatives. Budget is £4k max unless it's a self build when the obvious slight creep will occur

cycleclinic

Well you pick a number fo different bikes to seek advise on which one. Some you don't even pick a model, just a brand.

First of all you need to decide what kind of rider your are, which determines the postion you adopt which in turn deterines the frames geometry. Right there is the most important thing, making the frame dimension right for you and the riding you do.

Tyres, tyre width, tyre pressure has a bigger influence on ride comfort than frame material. Ti frames, steel frames and carbon frames can be stiff, behave like noodles, make great race bikes, audax bikes, training bikes...........

So unless you know what you want and care share no one can really help you, without repeating what already in various threads on this site.

Oh and self build is obviously the best way.

tlw1

The different choices (and materials) are an indication of my lack of choice clarity! I've promised myself a new bike for completing my course and would like it to be a relative keeper.

I'm after a bike for bright sunny days only, that could be a blast with some friends or if the weather had been right, I would have used it for ride London. I'm shoot at maintenance and ride in all weathers so will keep my wilier for those days.

Wheels will probably be deep rim

jordan_217

I own one of each and each bike/material has it's merits and drawbacks. In terms of quality of ride and enjoyment of just turning the pedals; I prefer my steel bike. The most obvious drawback is it's relatively heavy. Don't get me wrong, it's not going to stop you getting up hills, you'll just need to work harder. I've been using it mainly for commuting and the fact it can take a rack and mudguards makes it as versatile as a Birdseye waffle.

I enjoy my Ti bike for those long rides on the typical crappy surfaces we have in the UK. I find that my rear wheel becomes 'choppy' and skips around under heavy load but that's mainly when I've used it for racing so it's not so much of an issue on training rides. Even with stiff wheels and 23mm tyres the ride is quite forgiving, though I'm not sure if it borders on being a bit 'numb'(?).

I've recently bought a Scott Addict, the first carbon bike I've had in a few years. Being sub 7 kgs it's a revelation and comes into it's own when the road starts pointing up hill. I bought this purely for racing and I'm sure it's going to more than fit for purpose. I'd have to 'condition' myself to ride it for 4+ hours though, it's very stiff and quite aggressive geometry (for me)

For reference my (lowend) steel bike is a Ribble 525, my Ti bike is an Enigma Echo.

You need to take the above with a pinch of salt though; I'm sure there's Ti frames that are stiffer, I'm sure there's steel bikes that are significantly lighter and carbon bikes that are more forgiving. My advice would be to ride as many bikes/materials as possible and find out what you like most and what suits the types of riding/routes you do.

You also need to stop thinking 'carbon Vs steel Vs Ti'. There's different grades of steel and Ti and builders use different gauges in different areas to alter the characteristics and to meet price points. Similarly manufacturers will use different moulds and lay ups to achieve this with carbon. Not all frames of the same material are equal. IMO, you need to think bike a Vs bike b, etc etc.

As above, finishing kit can have as much as an influence as frame material and a lot of people overlook that.

You're in Shropshire right? Get yourself to Epic cycles for a start. They probably have the best cross section of manufactures/models/materials that I can think of. You'll also get bike fitting and some good advice.

tlw1

Thank you!

Was in epic a couple of weeks ago and bought a seat - the build has begun!

In the winter I have a heavy steel single speed which I use for club rides - so used to dragging myself up hills

cattytown

Best thing it so see if you can give the bikes a try. From Shropshire you are not too far from Drew at Spin as well - http://ridefullgas.com/

Paul.

cycleclinic

I have an 8kg steel bike and a 9.6kg steel bike. Both are equally hard going up hills because you are working against gravity, I mean it holds galaxies together! Pulling an extra 1.6kg is not really that noticable.There could 3kg between the ribble bike and the enigma echo, that is in the noticable range.

OP you need to know the position you can take. given the riding you do a race frame is probably pointless. So a frame with a longer headtube will work well. Why not go with disc brakes. A number of steel and Ti options appearing now. I think steel frames look good so on the basis you race them if you want to and they just look right I would go with that. You could even get a custom build if you want it tailored to you.

I would do that. Lynsky do a good range of Ti frames if that takes your fancy. Most carbon frames are race bike frames and look a little odd, the only thing going for them is that they are light. Look on weight weenies though a 7kg steel bike is easily done.

meanredspider

Slightly bizarre statement about most carbon race frames looking a little odd. Can you elaborate? Oddness depends upon your frame of reference. Carbon's major advantage is that you put carbon where you want it in the shape and thickness that you want it. Steel and Ti bikes tend to be made of tubes which tend to subject them in one way or another to form compromises. I'm not saying that it makes all carbon bikes better than all metal bikes - far from it - but being light isn't carbon's only advantage.

bontie

The lug is not the frame
The geometry is not the frame
The alignment is not the frame
The material is not the frame
The frame is the frame
- Richard Sachs
The bikes you describe are all vastly different on so many levels that you’ll end up wondering what the other one would have been, regardless of what you buy.

jordan_217

thecycleclinic wrote:

There could 3kg between the ribble bike and the enigma echo, that is in the noticable range.

I wish it was only 3kg :oops:

tlw1

bontie wrote:

The lug is not the frame
The geometry is not the frame
The alignment is not the frame
The material is not the frame
The frame is the frame
- Richard Sachs
The bikes you describe are all vastly different on so many levels that you’ll end up wondering what the other one would have been, regardless of what you buy.

Buying one now, does preclude buying another later!

Everyone - thanks for the input, much appreciated

DeVlaeminck

I can't vouch for the 675 but Look are very good quality bikes and most people that have owned them speak highly of them. On the other hand they should be good for what they cost these days. For a summer bike I'd get the Look.

alan_sherman

Surely it depends what the other bikes are in your stable.

If you already have a carbon race steed, or a steel winter trainer, or a titanium super-audax, or a carbon cross bike, or a vintage Colnago Master, or a steel round the world tourer.

New TT bike? Carbon
Bike-for-life? Titanium
Summer thrills? Carbon, or titanium or steel depending on what floats your boat. Get one designed for the purpose.
Commuter? Any of the above but alloy is a good option too for VFM.


As it is post MBA then you should be starting a job soon that will leave very little time to ride though

cycleclinic

Many carbon frames use the scuplted tubes as I call them. There is something about the gap between the forks and downtube that does not look right but it does not affect the bike function either. It is a personal athestic comment not one that is meant to reflect how the bike performs.

cougie

When you already have 5 bikes you have to ask yourself what role the 6th one will perform. I'd work that out before worrying about the material.

If you haven't a role for it then I'd save the cash - despite the N+1 rule - there comes a point when it just won't get ridden. Spend the cash on a weekend away in the Alps - memories will last longer than bike bits.

veronese68

If I were you I'd go for a custom Rourke, or similar, frame and do a self build. Whilst you are waiting for the frame you can start getting parts delivered, to work of course.
A friend of mine did that and not only does he love the bike but he really enjoyed the whole buying experience.

term1te

Surely you will use all your newly acquired strategic thinking and problem solving skills to identify the best option. The biggest problem is always finding the correct discount factor for your NPV analysis of any bikes future utility. Although, it really depends which bikes you already have, and what you need to create a balanced portfolio of bikes. Me, I'd love a custom 953

veronese68

Of course with a self build you can tell the other half you are assembling the bike using parts off another bike. The fact that my new MTB will be 2x10 XT when I'm using the parts off my old 3x9 bike is not something that she needs to worry herself about.
So you're only buying a new frame really. Don't forget to keep all the receipts in your desk at work too.

tlw1

Veronese68 wrote:

If I were you I'd go for a custom Rourke, or similar, frame and do a self build..

The rourke in my mind is currently in second place, with the colours decided (lotus black and gold)

Currently winning is the masters as a gift to myself for completing the masters - cheesy I know. this will probably change next w.end when I visit condor cycles!

dwanes

Funny how Aluminium hasn't cropped up in conversation. Its Light, stiff, low cost. Probably the best 'all-rounder' of the materials.
I guess its just not 'fashionable''?

veronese68

matthew h wrote:

this will probably change next w.end when I visit condor cycles!

I'm sure Stevo and I could come along in an advisory capacity. What could possibly go wrong?

Stevo_666

Veronese68 wrote:

matthew h wrote:

this will probably change next w.end when I visit condor cycles!

I'm sure Stevo and I could come along in an advisory capacity. What could possibly go wrong?

Especially if we have a few beers before going shopping

If you want my pennysworth, go Ti just because its a bit special. Lynskey would be my first choice - with disc brakes. (Edit - as in Helix disc variant 8) )

Brian B

I have the VN Astraeus. Its a bit special and so much more fun to ride than my high end carbon frame from Storck and so much more forgiving on long rides. Always gets a bit of attention at café stops. Fast though and my times for rides between 100-200miles has actually improved due to only I can think its more comfortable to ride.

tlw1

Stevo 666 wrote:

Veronese68 wrote:

matthew h wrote:

this will probably change next w.end when I visit condor cycles!

I'm sure Stevo and I could come along in an advisory capacity. What could possibly go wrong?

Especially if we have a few beers before going shopping

If you want my pennysworth, go Ti just because its a bit special. Lynskey would be my first choice - with disc brakes. (Edit - as in Helix disc variant 8) )

If I wasn't with the current wife and kids.... I would meet up!

Planning on a trip to see fatbirds in Cambridge to see the Helix in the flesh along with the VN's

jordan_217

matthew h wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Veronese68 wrote:

matthew h wrote:

this will probably change next w.end when I visit condor cycles!

I'm sure Stevo and I could come along in an advisory capacity. What could possibly go wrong?

Especially if we have a few beers before going shopping

If you want my pennysworth, go Ti just because its a bit special. Lynskey would be my first choice - with disc brakes. (Edit - as in Helix disc variant 8) )

If I wasn't with the current wife and kids.... I would meet up!

Planning on a trip to see fatbirds in Cambridge to see the Helix in the flesh along with the VN's

Just so you don't get lost…Fat Birds isn't in Cambridge. It's in Hunstanton, Norfolk. Just ask my wife…..

A few years ago she picked up the iPad after I'd been looking at bike stuff, for no apparent reason she threw the iPad at me and scowled, "what the hell is this?!". Being perplexed I took a look at the screen, top of the list of recent google searches was 'fat birds norfolk'. Oh how we laughed :oops: :oops:

If you're driving over this way then I'd also recommend Windmill Wheels, an Enigma dealer:

http://windmillwheels.co.uk/how-to-find-us/

tlw1

jordan_217 wrote:

matthew h wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Veronese68 wrote:

matthew h wrote:

this will probably change next w.end when I visit condor cycles!

I'm sure Stevo and I could come along in an advisory capacity. What could possibly go wrong?

Especially if we have a few beers before going shopping

If you want my pennysworth, go Ti just because its a bit special. Lynskey would be my first choice - with disc brakes. (Edit - as in Helix disc variant 8) )

If I wasn't with the current wife and kids.... I would meet up!

Planning on a trip to see fatbirds in Cambridge to see the Helix in the flesh along with the VN's

Just so you don't get lost…Fat Birds isn't in Cambridge. It's in Hunstanton, Norfolk. Just ask my wife…..

A few years ago she picked up the iPad after I'd been looking at bike stuff, for no apparent reason she threw the iPad at me and scowled, "what the hell is this?!". Being perplexed I took a look at the screen, top of the list of recent google searches was 'fat birds norfolk'. Oh how we laughed :oops: :oops:

If you're driving over this way then I'd also recommend Windmill Wheels, an Enigma dealer:

http://windmillwheels.co.uk/how-to-find-us/

Stevo_666

jordan_217 wrote:

A few years ago she picked up the iPad after I'd been looking at bike stuff, for no apparent reason she threw the iPad at me and scowled, "what the hell is this?!". Being perplexed I took a look at the screen, top of the list of recent google searches was 'fat birds norfolk'. Oh how we laughed :oops: :oops:

I bet you got some interesting search results as well as the bike shop :P