Shimano RS81 C24 Vs Ultegra Wheelset

dwanes
dwanes Posts: 954
edited July 2015 in Road buying advice
Am I right in thinking that by the time you put rim tape on the RS81's they will weigh as much as the Ultegra wheelset, which don't need rim tape due to being a solid rim.
Anyone got weights for rim tape supplied with the RS81's, and is the quoted weight with or without rim tap?

Thanks.
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Comments

  • imposter2.0
    imposter2.0 Posts: 12,028
    Rim tape will be a few grams, if that's important..
  • dwanes
    dwanes Posts: 954
    Imposter wrote:
    Rim tape will be a few grams, if that's important..
    Well yes, I would class around £150 as being important, that is why I asked.
    A piece of paper can weigh 'a few grams', your answer isn't very helpful.
  • Bozman
    Bozman Posts: 2,518
    Rim tape weighs squat, probably about as much as the air in the tyre.
    150grams less for £120 more, the choice is yours.
  • darkhairedlord
    darkhairedlord Posts: 7,180
    the weight of the rim tape isn't going to get you up the hill any slower.
  • dwanes
    dwanes Posts: 954
    Bozman wrote:
    Rim tape weighs squat, probably about as much as the air in the tyre.
    yet another helpful answer :roll:

    Is 150grams squat? at what point doesnt weight become squat?
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,312
    2 strips of rim tape weigh less than 150 grams. Shimano is not the lightest rim tape, you can replace it with something lighter though
    left the forum March 2023
  • Bozman
    Bozman Posts: 2,518
    dwanes wrote:
    Bozman wrote:
    Rim tape weighs squat, probably about as much as the air in the tyre.
    yet another helpful answer :roll:

    Is 150grams squat? at what point doesnt weight become squat?

    150grams is the difference in weight between the two wheel sets, the rim tape weighs squat.
  • dwanes
    dwanes Posts: 954
    So the actual difference could be 100g between the wheelsets once rim tape is factored in?

    I still would like to know how much squat weighs.
  • banditvic
    banditvic Posts: 549
    Veloplugs very light.
  • Bozman
    Bozman Posts: 2,518
    dwanes wrote:
    So the actual difference could be 100g between the wheelsets once rim tape is factored in?

    I still would like to know how much squat weighs.

    Somewhere between 5 - 10gs per wheel.
  • meanredspider
    meanredspider Posts: 12,337
    RS81 are supplied with rim tape fitted so I'd think that the tape is included in quoted weights. But I'm with the majority so far, if you're worried about how much rim tape weighs you have very little to worry about in the world and you probably want to be filling your tyres with dry nitrogen
    ROAD < Scott Foil HMX Di2, Volagi Liscio Di2, Jamis Renegade Elite Di2, Cube Reaction Race > ROUGH
  • DKay
    DKay Posts: 1,652
    Shave your head, cut your nails and go for a poo before going for a ride. The saving in weight will be more than the weight of your rim tapes and it won't cost you anything.

    If you don't think this is helpful advice, then I think you're somewhat missing the intended point. :wink:

    P.S. Velox rim tape weighs about 20g per wheel and it's not known to be particularly light.
    N
    N+1
  • dwanes
    dwanes Posts: 954
    meanredspider wrote:
    RS81 are supplied with rim tape fitted so I'd think that the tape is included in quoted weights. But I'm with the majority so far, if you're worried about how much rim tape weighs you have very little to worry about in the world and you probably want to be filling your tyres with dry nitrogen
    There would be no point at all in buying the RS80's rather than ultegra's if the rim tape was 75g each. That is why I was asking the question :roll:
  • dwanes
    dwanes Posts: 954
    DKay wrote:

    P.S. Velox rim tape weighs about 20g per wheel and it's not known to be particularly light.
    At least you eventually answered my question with a useful answer.
  • meanredspider
    meanredspider Posts: 12,337
    dwanes wrote:
    There would be no point at all in buying the RS80's rather than ultegra's if the rim tape was 75g each. That is why I was asking the question :roll:

    Nor would it be much point if the rim tape weighed a kilo - but it obviously neither weighs 1kg or 75g - and I'm sure the weight of rim tape is not the real difference between RS81 and Ultegras
    ROAD < Scott Foil HMX Di2, Volagi Liscio Di2, Jamis Renegade Elite Di2, Cube Reaction Race > ROUGH
  • bmxboy10
    bmxboy10 Posts: 1,958
    OP I had some Mavic Elites until the summer when I sold them and had some wheels made. The Elites are regarded as being "better" than the RS80/RS81 and Ultegras you are considering. I now ride a set of Ugos wheels made up of Architype rims and DA hubs and the wheels cost me about £400. I wish I had taken Ugos advice now and gone for Ultegra hubs as the wheel set would have come in at about £280 and saved me a few quid. All I can say is to me the handbuilts ride better and at my weight are stiffer than the Mavics. The wheels look great and will be easy to maintain. The handbuilts are heavier than the Mavics (and the RS81s etc) but this makes no difference to the ride IMO. You pays your money you makes your choice! Do yourself a favour and go Handbuilt.
  • darkhairedlord
    darkhairedlord Posts: 7,180
    solboy10 wrote:
    OP I had some Mavic Elites until the summer when I sold them and had some wheels made. The Elites are regarded as being "better" than the RS80/RS81 and Ultegras you are considering. I now ride a set of Ugos wheels made up of Architype rims and DA hubs and the wheels cost me about £400. I wish I had taken Ugos advice now and gone for Ultegra hubs as the wheel set would have come in at about £280 and saved me a few quid. All I can say is to me the handbuilts ride better and at my weight are stiffer than the Mavics. The wheels look great and will be easy to maintain. The handbuilts are heavier than the Mavics (and the RS81s etc) but this makes no difference to the ride IMO. You pays your money you makes your choice! Do yourself a favour and go Handbuilt.

    But won't the extra weight of the rim tape kill his strava kom?

    I'll get me coat....
  • bmxboy10
    bmxboy10 Posts: 1,958
    darkhairedlord wrote:
    solboy10 wrote:
    OP I had some Mavic Elites until the summer when I sold them and had some wheels made. The Elites are regarded as being "better" than the RS80/RS81 and Ultegras you are considering. I now ride a set of Ugos wheels made up of Architype rims and DA hubs and the wheels cost me about £400. I wish I had taken Ugos advice now and gone for Ultegra hubs as the wheel set would have come in at about £280 and saved me a few quid. All I can say is to me the handbuilts ride better and at my weight are stiffer than the Mavics. The wheels look great and will be easy to maintain. The handbuilts are heavier than the Mavics (and the RS81s etc) but this makes no difference to the ride IMO. You pays your money you makes your choice! Do yourself a favour and go Handbuilt.

    But won't the extra weight of the rim tape kill his strava kom?

    I'll get me coat....
    No it's all good as I ride without the dust caps on so it all balances out :)
  • slam that stem
    slam that stem Posts: 104
    meanredspider wrote:
    dwanes wrote:
    There would be no point at all in buying the RS80's rather than ultegra's if the rim tape was 75g each. That is why I was asking the question :roll:

    Nor would it be much point if the rim tape weighed a kilo - but it obviously neither weighs 1kg or 75g - and I'm sure the weight of rim tape is not the real difference between RS81 and Ultegras
    I have 6700s and RS80s, so the previous version of each. For the rear wheel, the weights were not very light and closer than you can imagine. My memory is poor but I think they were 919g and 939g so if weight is your driver there's hardly any point going for the carbon/alu hybrid rim.

    I also have the 7890 DA wheels and the rear is into the 860s I believe but I'd have to re-weigh it to be certain.
    The titifers have sung their song.

    Now it's time for sleep.
  • cycleclinic
    cycleclinic Posts: 6,865
    150g is not enough to make you faster even on a steep long climb as there are more important factors which will determine how fast you like how fit you are at the time and tired your are.

    the 7890 wheelset if 1400g bare (well I think I know) so the rear is more like 760g and the front 640g.

    Rim tape is normally 15-20g per wheel. Veloplugs if they fit are 5g or less for both wheels and stans rim tape is around 5g for a pair of wheels too.

    Picking a wheelset based on is 100g lighter than the other one you are looking at is not a great thing do. Pick on other criteria, stiffness, aerodymanics, looks, price all these things are more important than 100g. For the RS81 and the ultegra wheels though the first three are similar so it come down to price.
    http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.
  • dwanes
    dwanes Posts: 954
    If this is the case then ultegra wheelset is the way to go.
    Not sure why anyone would buy the RS81 for an extra £150 for the sake of 100g?

    I do wonder though at what point does weight make a difference on a wheeset?
  • pippi_langsamer-2
    pippi_langsamer-2 Posts: 1,470
    Id go with the Ultegra's anyway simply due to being able to run them tubeless if you so desire.....which I would.
  • ozzzyosborn206
    ozzzyosborn206 Posts: 1,340
    thecycleclinic wrote:
    150g is not enough to make you faster even on a steep long climb as there are more important factors which will determine how fast you like how fit you are at the time and tired your are.

    the 7890 wheelset if 1400g bare (well I think I know) so the rear is more like 760g and the front 640g.

    Rim tape is normally 15-20g per wheel. Veloplugs if they fit are 5g or less for both wheels and stans rim tape is around 5g for a pair of wheels too.

    Picking a wheelset based on is 100g lighter than the other one you are looking at is not a great thing do. Pick on other criteria, stiffness, aerodymanics, looks, price all these things are more important than 100g. For the RS81 and the ultegra wheels though the first three are similar so it come down to price.

    I don't get what you are saying, he would have the same level of fitness regardless which wheels he had, and be slightly less fatigued on the lighter wheels which will then be slightly faster on a climb, rotational weight is more noticeable than anywhere else.
  • darkhairedlord
    darkhairedlord Posts: 7,180
    ozzzyosborn206 wrote:
    thecycleclinic wrote:
    150g is not enough to make you faster even on a steep long climb as there are more important factors which will determine how fast you like how fit you are at the time and tired your are.

    the 7890 wheelset if 1400g bare (well I think I know) so the rear is more like 760g and the front 640g.

    Rim tape is normally 15-20g per wheel. Veloplugs if they fit are 5g or less for both wheels and stans rim tape is around 5g for a pair of wheels too.

    Picking a wheelset based on is 100g lighter than the other one you are looking at is not a great thing do. Pick on other criteria, stiffness, aerodymanics, looks, price all these things are more important than 100g. For the RS81 and the ultegra wheels though the first three are similar so it come down to price.

    I don't get what you are saying, he would have the same level of fitness regardless which wheels he had, and be slightly less fatigued on the lighter wheels which will then be slightly faster on a climb, rotational weight is more noticeable than anywhere else.

    Absolutely,

    A mass of 100g weighs approx 1N.
    Lets say our rider is a pro going up ventoux, so 1600m of ascent in around an hour.
    Lets also assume bike + rider have a weight of 800N (about 80kg).
    Just overcoming the change in height (so ignoring rolling resistance, wind resistance, friction etc) will require 1.28MJ of energy.
    So if this is used over the hour he will be putting out 355.5Watts (just to overcome the change in height).
    If he now adds on the 1N of rim tape and rides up the same mountain with the same power output it will take him 4.5s longer and require 1.6KJ of energy.
    If he wants to get up in the same time he will need to MTFU and find the extra 0.4W.

    Weight on rim is irrelevant other than for acceleration and then it is really very marginal.
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,312
    darkhairedlord wrote:
    If he now adds on the 1N of rim tape and rides up the same mountain with the same power output it will take him 4.5s longer and require 1.6KJ of energy...

    Isn't that the energy contained in half a raisin?
    left the forum March 2023
  • darkhairedlord
    darkhairedlord Posts: 7,180
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    darkhairedlord wrote:
    If he now adds on the 1N of rim tape and rides up the same mountain with the same power output it will take him 4.5s longer and require 1.6KJ of energy...

    Isn't that the energy contained in half a raisin?

    or about 1/10th of a AA battery!
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,312
    darkhairedlord wrote:
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    darkhairedlord wrote:
    If he now adds on the 1N of rim tape and rides up the same mountain with the same power output it will take him 4.5s longer and require 1.6KJ of energy...

    Isn't that the energy contained in half a raisin?

    or about 1/10th of a AA battery!

    10 raising are a lot cheaper than a Duracell though... :roll:
    left the forum March 2023
  • DKay
    DKay Posts: 1,652
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    darkhairedlord wrote:
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    darkhairedlord wrote:
    If he now adds on the 1N of rim tape and rides up the same mountain with the same power output it will take him 4.5s longer and require 1.6KJ of energy...

    Isn't that the energy contained in half a raisin?

    or about 1/10th of a AA battery!

    10 raising are a lot cheaper than a Duracell though... :roll:

    I wouldn't fancy trying to ingest the latter...
    N
    N+1
  • Elfed
    Elfed Posts: 459
    I can't offer a direct comparison between both wheelsets, but have just fitted a set of WH6800 Ultegras on my bike last night and they roll really smooth compared to my Aksiums, which in all honesty are decent wheels for the price. I can't quote average speed comparisons as that depends on so many variables.

    Fitting the GP4000S II tyres was a bit of a struggle, but no more than fitting GP4S on the Aksiums.

    I got mine for £229 from Chainreaction, considering the Aksiums can't be bought without tyres and retail at £225 I think they're a bit of a bargain. Time will tell how long they last though.
  • Andersmi
    Andersmi Posts: 8
    [url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19184171#p19184171]dwanes[/url] wrote:
    Am I right in thinking that by the time you put rim tape on the RS81's they will weigh as much as the Ultegra wheelset, which don't need rim tape due to being a solid rim.
    Anyone got weights for rim tape supplied with the RS81's, and is the quoted weight with or without rim tap?

    Thanks.


    The RS81's are delivered with rim tap but according to the manual if using inner tube:

    "Do not use rim tape if using an inner tube either. Rim tape may make it difficult to remove and install the tire, and the tire or tube may become damaged or the tires may suddenly puncture and come off, and severe injury may result."

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