Time for a change, bits, or bike?

evade

Hey all

I'm an occasional rider, I'm pretty good on trails with only small obstacles, small tech sections, rock gardens. I've been riding for a few years on and off. I moved a couple of years ago, and bought a pimped-up 2009 Anthem X2, carbon everything, it's light as a feather, and has flat, narrow bars, a real race machine. A lot of the trails here scare the beejeezus out of me, I've never felt comfortable, even on the only marginal tech stuff. And I'm blaming the bike. I tried a downhill bike last year, and wow, it opened everything up for me. I went back home last month and took my old Scott Spark out to North Wales for a few days, which is heavier, has an extra 20mm and wide bars. It felt amazing, I was tanking around the blacks like a champ (well, errrr, kinda). Then I get back here, get on the X2, and it feels twitchy, unstable, and all my confidence goes out the window.

So I'm blaming the bike... Gotta be the bike's fault...

What I'd like to know is...

Would just getting wider bars make much difference? It feels like it could...

Or is it all the carbon making it feel so twitchy?

I don't wanna pump a load of coin on the off-chance...

Or should I be looking at getting more of a trail bike than a racer, will that give me more confidence when the going gets tougher?

If I should swap/upgrade the bike, should I go Trance, or Reign (in terms of mm sus)? If the latter, will it have a huge impact on climbing, or barely be noticeable?

Would appreciate any thoughts.

Evade :?

rockmonkeysc

I had basically the same frame and it doesn't have to be twitchy at all.
Wider bars and shorter stem will help a lot and I had 120mm forks on mine (Rockshox Rebas) which just made it a touch slacker. If you have skinny tyres that won't help.
No reason the carbon bits will make it twitchy.
It made a really nice trail bike.

evade

Cheers mate. It's got top-end Marzocchi Corsa SL forks - 100mm, and according to bikeradar review "if you don’t mind a bit of braking twang and vague tracking, the fork is very light" (I have no idea what braking twang is!?). And I'm running Racing Ralph tyres. So maybe looking at changing those bits, and the bars and stem. I'd be proper happy if I could keep most of it as is.

rockmonkeysc

Racing Ralps are good as long as they aren't too skinny.
A flexy fork will make it difficult to hold a line but won't necessarily make it feel twitchy.

The Rookie

Ralph's are good until it gets a bit muddy, then you need a few more knobblies, a Ron is an option, given what you say I'd make sure they are 2.25, not 2.1, wider bars, a shorter stem and maybe try and lift the grips a little, longer forks would do that and slacken head angle, or riser bars or moving spacers for example.

rockmonkeysc

Higher grips will make stability worse, especially when cornering. You need your weight low and central.

Bishbosh10

What is the head angle of you spark compared to the anthem?
"Twitchy" is a personal thing - for example - I found an Anthem twitchy so bought a Trance. Others, Rockmonkey for example doesn't find the anthem twitchy - each to their own.

Changing bars and stems might help, but if it is simply the case that the head angle is too steep for you comfort then you aren't going to fix it by changing themI would suggest.

supersonic

I prefer on the steep side and a 'sharper' feel. problem with whacking a longer fork on is that it slackens the seat angle too, which can disrupt seated handling. Consider an angleset too.

rockmonkeysc

It can be twitchy, depends how you set it up.

The Rookie

RockmonkeySC wrote:

Higher grips will make stability worse, especially when cornering. You need your weight low and central.

I'd disagree, it moves the weight back which increases rear grip and decreases front making is more stable as you turn in.

evade

TBH I've said "twitchy" but I don't even know if that's the right word - it's pretty hard to sum up how it feels, certainly not comfy and confidence inspiring...

Anyway, OK, well as I love the Anthem so much on the smooth, flat and climbing, I'm going to try to stick with it. So I've just bagged an EC90 bar and I'm gonna grab some new tyres - mine were really on their way out (they were 2.25 btw) - and we'll see how we go. If that doesn't do it, then I'll go for the stem (mine's 120mm).

I'll report back!

Cheers for responses guys

BloggingFit

The Rookie wrote:

RockmonkeySC wrote:

Higher grips will make stability worse, especially when cornering. You need your weight low and central.

I'd disagree, it moves the weight back which increases rear grip and decreases front making is more stable as you turn in.

I would say the opposite. You want more grip up front on turn in so the tyre hooks up and doesn't simply wash out. Then push he bike through the turn so you end up with more weight forwards the rear and grip for exiting.

The Rookie

I agree that is what you may WANT, but that does make the bike feel more responsive (aka twitchy) what may be better on paper is no good if the rider hasn't the confidence to use it.

I would also suggest looking at suspension settings, sag and damping can both effect how a bike feels. one persons lively is anothers scary (twitchy?).

rockmonkeysc

BloggingFit wrote:

The Rookie wrote:

RockmonkeySC wrote:

Higher grips will make stability worse, especially when cornering. You need your weight low and central.

I'd disagree, it moves the weight back which increases rear grip and decreases front making is more stable as you turn in.

I would say the opposite. You want more grip up front on turn in so the tyre hooks up and doesn't simply wash out. Then push he bike through the turn so you end up with more weight forwards the rear and grip for exiting.

That's exactly why DH and enduro racers use flat or low rise bars. A higher rise reduces grip, stability, control and feel for the front tyre.
You don't want your weight rearwards, you need to be central and low.

twonks

evade wrote:

TBH I've said "twitchy" but I don't even know if that's the right word - it's pretty hard to sum up how it feels, certainly not comfy and confidence inspiring...

Anyway, OK, well as I love the Anthem so much on the smooth, flat and climbing, I'm going to try to stick with it. So I've just bagged an EC90 bar and I'm gonna grab some new tyres - mine were really on their way out (they were 2.25 btw) - and we'll see how we go. If that doesn't do it, then I'll go for the stem (mine's 120mm).

I'll report back!

Cheers for responses guys

What your probably feeling is nervousness with a 120mm stem and flat bars.

For the cost of a stem and bars I'd buy a few stems from around 50 to 100mm with cheapy 750mm bars that can be cut down.

Then have a play and see what fits and feels best.

Initial thoughts of a chuckable stable riding position may be good when the going is down, but as soon as you want to ride uphill it may be too upright.

paul.skibum

Ultra light bikes can also feel less senttled on the trail, more inclined to being deflected or upset by trail obstacles, a feeling which is enhanced on a bike set up for a racey stretched out position. Weight forward/long stem, narrow bars etc - A better position on the bike will make it easier for you to deal with the bike pinging about on the trail for sure. if you are running 120mm stem then I would definitely knock that back to at least 80 as a start point, maybe 70 amd widen the bars to 710+ as a start point (or go really wide on the bars and trim to suit).

evade

paul.skibum wrote:

Ultra light bikes can also feel less senttled on the trail, more inclined to being deflected or upset by trail obstacles, a feeling which is enhanced on a bike set up for a racey stretched out position.

This resonates with me most. I bought the bike from a serious XC racer, it's carbon everything, weight weenied no expense spared, sub 22lb, and yeah clearly set-up that way, and so I think the lack of weight, coupled with the riding position, makes it feel much less sturdy for the riding I'm trying - yeah, yeah, I know, I'm moaning my bike is too light :oops:

And tbh too, I haven't changed the sus settings since I got it (no idea how to - all the gear, no idea :oops: ) so maybe it's also set-up for a different kind of riding. I'm gonna book into my LBS and get that looked at.

So I'll also grab a shorter stem too at the weekend.

rockmonkeysc

Suspension set up would help.
Get your full weight on the bike, bounce a few times then let it settle and get someone to measure the travel used front and rear, adjust air pressure until it's settling at around 25% travel used. Adjust the rebound so that when you compress the suspension it returns quickly but controlled, not firing back up super fast. You don't want it too slow either.