carbon v aluminium

apc1

Hi

Looking to get a new bike via B2W and looking to spend c£1200 (I can add the extra £200 before you shout!)

Around this price point there are good aluminium bikes with 11 speed 105 groupset such as well regarded Specialized Allez Comp with smartweld technology which is as stiff as many entry level carbon bikes. Last year's review was very good.

There are carbon framed bikes at this price but compromise is poorer groupset and I suspect carbon grade is not so refined.

Am I better going for aluminium Allez or something carbon framed? Not wanting to upgrade too much as mountain biking is my first love and this will be my bit on the side!!

Bordersroadie

If you do a search you'll avoid having umpteen threads on the subject repeated here.

FWIW, a decent alu frame with 25c tyres is more than acceptable comfortwise and if you prioritise a frame that will withstand the knocks of life without any worries (eg if you're the type that wants to be able to chuck a bike in the boot for example or regularly have to D-lock it somewhere public), alu is a good choice.

Weightwise, for your £1200 budget, an alu frame will be around 1.4 to 1.6kg vs a carbon (eg Planet X or Ribble) at 1.1 to 1.3kg.

iron-clover

Hi there,
It will depend on what you are looking for- either out and out performance from your frame, a mix of everything and whether you'll be prepared to upgrade any machines in the future.

For example, £1150 will get you a BMC SLR03 with Sora from Evans, which will no doubt have a great frameset going by the other Teammachine models, but unfortunately to make the most of it you'll have to replace everything else over time which will take more money and patience.

However, for £1200 you can get the 2015 Spesh Allez Comp which looks like it'll be pretty much ready to race out of the box, and the only thing I'd put on the list to change for real racing would be a lighter pair of wheels and leave it at that. Apparently the frame weighs only 1150g (80g less than the SLR03) so with the 105 components it'll be a lot lighter out of the box.

Jules Winnfield

You will get loads of views for such a subject. Some will say that you could buy the carbon bike (albeit with poorer quality carbon in its make up AND poorer quality components) and update the components in time. Or you could go for aluminium with much better components. The latter is something I would prefer but that's my choice.

Just because a bike is made from carbon, it doesn't automatically mean it must be a better bike than an aluminium one.

MisterMuncher

There's probably a few options in Carbon that wouldn't be massively compromised, and I say that as a dyed-in-the-wool aluminium fan. If you could stomach 10-Speed 105 there's a few places doing the Supersix Evo 6 from 2014 for 1200 or just under, for example. An extremely well regarded, reasonably light frame that'll hold it's value and is definitely worth upgrading.

I fully agree with Jules that material shouldn't be your deciding factor, though. A good frame is a good frame. The only real answer is to try as many as you can.

StillGoing

You buy what you're happy with and can afford, whether it be immediately or in the long term with upgrades. Don't pay any attention though to the notion that you can't chuck a carbon frame in the back of a car or use a D-Shackle on it. Carbon is more than capable of withstanding the knocks and scrapes you get with the hobby/sport and paint and lacquer can chip of off anything including aluminium. Entry level carbon is going to be every bit as good as top end aluminium. As for your price budget; you can get a current Wilier GTR in full carbon, with 105 for £1,200 and ready for Di2 if you decide to go that way in the future. That isn't an entry level frameset.

mcvw

Hi,

I bought a 2014 Giant Composite Defy 1 last week. It's full-carbon and has 11speed Ultegra (complete GS, apart from the br561 brakes).

It's a fantastic bike (already clocked up 48+ miles since Saturday) even more so as the store price-matched it to an internet site and I saved £500 on the RRP.

My advice would be, have an idea of what you'd like (spec wise), but don't be too choosy (brand wise) - there are bargains out there to be had


Mike

Anonymous

Just get the damn Allez FFS.
If you want carbon do some overtime.
It costs more, just deal with it.
Comparing aluminium and carbon bikes at the same price point is silly IMO.

MrSweary

If it weren't B2W I'd suggest a Canyon Roadlite AL - lighter than many similarly priced carbon bikes with full Ultegra. Super ride too.

But it isn't, so I won't.

ai_1

Carbonator wrote:

Just get the damn Allez FFS.
If you want carbon do some overtime.
It costs more, just deal with it.
Comparing aluminium and carbon bikes at the same price point is silly IMO.

How is comparing bikes of similar cost silly? Pretty much everyone when they go to buy a bike has a budget in mind. All decisions involved in choosing a bike are impacted by that. There are few questions less silly in my opinion than that of which material makes most sense at a given price point.
The OP isn't saying he specifically wants a carbon bike. As I read it he wants the best bike for the money and is asking which material he should be looking at to achieve that. A perfectly sensible question IMO

kajjal

One thing to consider coming from mountain biking is rim brakes are very poor, especially in the wet compared to hydraulic disc brakes.

Apart from that I would tend to go for aluminium as it will have better components on. Few people actually upgrade groupsets later on.

Check the sales , you may find a very good deal.

Anonymous

Ai_1 wrote:

Carbonator wrote:

Just get the damn Allez FFS.
If you want carbon do some overtime.
It costs more, just deal with it.
Comparing aluminium and carbon bikes at the same price point is silly IMO.

How is comparing bikes of similar cost silly? Pretty much everyone when they go to buy a bike has a budget in mind. All decisions involved in choosing a bike are impacted by that. There are few questions less silly in my opinion than that of which material makes most sense at a given price point.
The OP isn't saying he specifically wants a carbon bike. As I read it he wants the best bike for the money and is asking which material he should be looking at to achieve that. A perfectly sensible question IMO

There seems a 'want' for carbon to me. Why go beyond the Allez if not? As I said, just buy it.
There is at least as much of a want for carbon, as there is for better components.
Only the OP can decide which to compromise on if unwilling to pay for both.

Its much simpler to just accept that carbon is dearer than aluminium and view the groupset independently IMO.

benculverhouse

Be careful - I don't think they allow you to chip in over the £1,000 C2W scheme to get a fancier bike (at least they didn't when I signed up a year ago), due to ownership rights over the bike. Check first before getting your hopes up!

StillGoing

Kajjal wrote:

One thing to consider coming from mountain biking is rim brakes are very poor, especially in the wet compared to hydraulic disc brakes.

Apart from that I would tend to go for aluminium as it will have better components on. Few people actually upgrade groupsets later on.

Check the sales , you may find a very good deal.

Erm no. Roadie logic is to buy the best frameset you can afford and upgrade the components as and when you can. I've upgraded a couple of bikes for riders who bought the best they could afford with Sora, or 2300 etc and they've ended up with a very good bike and recouped some of the money by selling the old components.

Bordersroadie

philthy3 wrote:

Don't pay any attention though to the notion that you can't chuck a carbon frame in the back of a car or use a D-Shackle on it.

You took my comments out of context. . .I didn't say that.

What I was illustrating is that an alu frame (or steel or Ti) is far, far more forgiving of rough treatment and if your lifestyle means your bike may be treated (comparatively) roughly, a non-carbon bike is a wise choice.

Carbon frames are extremely strong where forces are as intended (ie riding a bike) but hit, compress or point-load tubes and they can be very fragile.

A few samples to illustrate: All my rides start on our farm track and I often hear big stones clanging heavily off the frame. I often chuck my bike in my works van with all manner of loose tools, timber and whatnot. It comes camping with us getting chucked in the van with all the clobber and (in the case of the ti bike) locked with a D-lock to the seat frame. Back home, my bikes have been in the house/garage and variously knocked over/hit with flying objects by children. There is no way I'd treat an expensive carbon frame in such ways.

I'm not knocking carbon frames, but alu/steel/ti are great in that you genuinely don't need to worry about avoiding damage from accidental clumsiness, something I excel in.

apc1

Thanks all for the responses and certainly kicked off a debate for some of you.

Not an easy call and will boil down to what deal I can get (discount) while staying within parameters of B2W I think. I'm sure I'll have a gut feeling when I get to the deal stage and will follow my instinct- just pay the extra couple of hundred and get carbon with a good 105 11 speed groupset!

frisbee

Bordersroadie wrote:

philthy3 wrote:

Don't pay any attention though to the notion that you can't chuck a carbon frame in the back of a car or use a D-Shackle on it.

You took my comments out of context. . .I didn't say that.

What I was illustrating is that an alu frame (or steel or Ti) is far, far more forgiving of rough treatment and if your lifestyle means your bike may be treated (comparatively) roughly, a non-carbon bike is a wise choice.

Carbon frames are extremely strong where forces are as intended (ie riding a bike) but hit, compress or point-load tubes and they can be very fragile.

A few samples to illustrate: All my rides start on our farm track and I often hear big stones clanging heavily off the frame. I often chuck my bike in my works van with all manner of loose tools, timber and whatnot. It comes camping with us getting chucked in the van with all the clobber and (in the case of the ti bike) locked with a D-lock to the seat frame. Back home, my bikes have been in the house/garage and variously knocked over/hit with flying objects by children. There is no way I'd treat an expensive carbon frame in such ways.

I'm not knocking carbon frames, but alu/steel/ti are great in that you genuinely don't need to worry about avoiding damage from accidental clumsiness, something I excel in.

Conversely, if you get a heavy dent in a tube or crack a weld that's probably it for metal framed bike, high end ones can be particularly fragile. But you can snap a carbon frame in half and get it repaired.

Anonymous

Personally I buy a road bike based on how it looks and rides, not how well it withstands forces it will probably never meet.

'Metal with a memory' they used to call (slag off) aluminium bikes when aluminium bikes were the new/expensive frame material.
Now all the hate just goes to carbon :roll:

Decent carbon frame with 105 or above. Get some decent wheels at some point (if not immediately) and you are sorted.

The OP seems to be going that way and will hopefully never ask questions he knows the answer to already again

StillGoing

Bordersroadie wrote:

philthy3 wrote:

Don't pay any attention though to the notion that you can't chuck a carbon frame in the back of a car or use a D-Shackle on it.

You took my comments out of context. . .I didn't say that.

What I was illustrating is that an alu frame (or steel or Ti) is far, far more forgiving of rough treatment and if your lifestyle means your bike may be treated (comparatively) roughly, a non-carbon bike is a wise choice.

Carbon frames are extremely strong where forces are as intended (ie riding a bike) but hit, compress or point-load tubes and they can be very fragile.

A few samples to illustrate: All my rides start on our farm track and I often hear big stones clanging heavily off the frame. I often chuck my bike in my works van with all manner of loose tools, timber and whatnot. It comes camping with us getting chucked in the van with all the clobber and (in the case of the ti bike) locked with a D-lock to the seat frame. Back home, my bikes have been in the house/garage and variously knocked over/hit with flying objects by children. There is no way I'd treat an expensive carbon frame in such ways.

I'm not knocking carbon frames, but alu/steel/ti are great in that you genuinely don't need to worry about avoiding damage from accidental clumsiness, something I excel in.

You're underestimating the strength of carbon frames and what they can withstand. The forces you'd need to exert to snap a chainstay are similar to getting a 12st man to stand on them with the frame on its side and no wheel fitted. Haphazardly chucking it in a van is not going to snap anything, unless it's a cheap inferior copy built in a hut in the far east, or eastern Europe using a cheap autoclave. The only likely damage is paint chips and scratches which you'd get on any material with a paint or lacquer finish.

Anonymous

Bordersroadie wrote:

my bikes have been in the house/garage and variously knocked over/hit with flying objects by children. There is no way I'd treat an expensive carbon frame in such ways.

I'm not knocking carbon frames, but alu/steel/ti are great in that you genuinely don't need to worry about avoiding damage from accidental clumsiness, something I excel in.

I would not treat any of my bikes in such a way!
Aluminium would dent and that would really pi55 me off.

Do you have an expensive frame of any kind?
It sounds like you are just trying to justify not spending on one.

What about wheels and components? Do they have to be a bit cr4p so that they can be abused/mistreated?

Bordersroadie

Carbonator wrote:

Do you have an expensive frame of any kind?
It sounds like you are just trying to justify not spending on one.

What about wheels and components? Do they have to be a bit cr4p so that they can be abused/mistreated?

I recently had a big budget, sort of a once in a blue moon type of spend, to get a new frame. I very nearly got a carbon frame as I'm a weight weenie at heart and I love the look and performance of many carbon frames, but bearing in mind the realities of my life (as above!) and knowing that I couldn't afford a replacement nor even a repair in the event of a mishap, I opted for custom hand-built Ti instead. It cost me an arm and a leg and I'm very happy with my choice for every possible reason.

My various road bikes have Dura Ace, Ultegra and 105, all with handbuilt wheels, so I believe in quality, my comments are purely based on the practicalities of different frame materials with respect to accidental damage. I was in no way suggesting that a carbon frame is a bad idea or inferior to more robust materials, I'm just saying that I like to have that aspect of my life (fretting about my best, very expensive, bike getting damaged) completely worry-free. I do actually get a smug feeling when a massive stone dings loudly off my titanium chainstay (which as I mentioned, happens almost with every ride because of where I live) because I know it's making zero damage, no worrying about paintwork, gelcoat damage, carbon weave getting pinholed, just a clanging noise and a warm feeling of not giving a sh1t.

Each to their own, I'm not saying I'm right and others are wrong in their choices.

Hey, we're all kindred spirits and it doesn't matter what bike any of us rides, as long as we're riding.

All the best, have a good weekend.

StillGoing

And we're just saying your worries/concerns about the frailty of carbon are completely unfounded.

desweller

Bordersroadie wrote:

philthy3 wrote:

Don't pay any attention though to the notion that you can't chuck a carbon frame in the back of a car or use a D-Shackle on it.

You took my comments out of context. . .I didn't say that.

What I was illustrating is that an alu frame (or steel or Ti) is far, far more forgiving of rough treatment and if your lifestyle means your bike may be treated (comparatively) roughly, a non-carbon bike is a wise choice.

Carbon frames are extremely strong where forces are as intended (ie riding a bike) but hit, compress or point-load tubes and they can be very fragile.

A few samples to illustrate: All my rides start on our farm track and I often hear big stones clanging heavily off the frame. I often chuck my bike in my works van with all manner of loose tools, timber and whatnot. It comes camping with us getting chucked in the van with all the clobber and (in the case of the ti bike) locked with a D-lock to the seat frame. Back home, my bikes have been in the house/garage and variously knocked over/hit with flying objects by children. There is no way I'd treat an expensive carbon frame in such ways.

I'm not knocking carbon frames, but alu/steel/ti are great in that you genuinely don't need to worry about avoiding damage from accidental clumsiness, something I excel in.

I've crashed my el-cheapo PX carbon frame 4 times, and it's still bashing out the miles. It gets slung in the back of a car every single week and carted 170 miles to the other side of the country, along with my colleague's Kinesis and our luggage too; the biggest problem I've had is the cable tension adjusters getting walked round where they're rubbing on things.

It's pretty tough stuff TBH.