Wheel truing stand
graememacd
Posts: 386
Looking at building up my first wheel set and thinking of getting a wheel truing stand as there may be more projects in future. Looking at the park tools ts8. Has anyone got experience of this or any other one around the £70 - £80 mark?
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If you can buy the Park Tool for < 100, buy it, there is IMO no alternative.0
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You can make one out of plywood that's just as good for less than a tenner. Just sayin'.- - - - - - - - - -
On Strava.{/url}0 -
Tru, but that's another story...
I made the majority of my wheels with an old fork and my nails.
It's IMO no use to buy a cheap instable stand.0 -
I think the OP is referring to the cheaper Park stand. The DB one is near £200.00Keezx wrote:If you can buy the Park Tool for < 100, buy it, there is IMO no alternative.Pegoretti
Colnago
Cervelo
Campagnolo0 -
Stumbled upon this thread as looking for the same. Some Googling has revealed some on Planet x.
I'm quite tempted by http://www.planetx.co.uk/i/q/TOJWPWTS/j ... shop-stand
Some forum discussions out there point out this one http://www.planetx.co.uk/i/q/TOJWWTS/jo ... shop-stand is blatantly a rip off of a Park one (but claims out of stock until January 2015).
Some discussion on them here http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic ... ing-stands
Yes you can use ply wood, an old fork, turn your bike upside down and use cable ties, or be a complete pro and pluck the spokes and just know how true the wheel is by listening to the tune they play. But if someone wants to buy a proper tool for the job that's up to them....0 -
Thanks for the replies all. That planet X jobsworth one looks good although I am tempted to just have a go with the wheel in frame method for my first go at it. Would it be worth getting a dishing tool also?0
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Dishing tool makes centering easy and is certainly advisable.
The Minoura foldable one is good enough.0 -
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Definitely worth buying quality tools. The Park Tools TS2 stand is very good and solid, the TS8 does not look as solid, but I've no experience of it. The Jobsworth one above does look like a copy of the TS2 at the price of the TS8. Might be worth a punt.ugo.santalucia wrote:
Regarding spoke keys I bought one of these. I thought it would be a good one, but in use it's rather irritating. the notch for the spoke to sit in is too narrow so it sometimes grips the spoke. I noticed your DT Swiss key had a much larger channel so it would not be an issue. One of those things you don't notice until you actually use the thing.0 -
Never had any trouble with the Spokey.0
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anewman wrote:Stumbled upon this thread as looking for the same. Some Googling has revealed some on Planet x.
I'm quite tempted by http://www.planetx.co.uk/i/q/TOJWPWTS/j ... shop-stand
I have that stand, bought it in the price drop last year for about £75. It is my first stand, and if you are OCD you can get too focused on the dials.
If I can fit it in the car, I could bring it down this weekend, as my in-laws are just over the hill at Maesy for you to have a look at.
Recommend reading Paolo's article on tools you need and get Munson's book etc. For the things I have got, I have got a Spokey, the TM-1 and I made a nipple driver from an old handle and a cheap screwdriver. I borrow a friend's dishing tool (Santa is coming with mine). Also, if you want to get really OCD then you could build yourself a calibration gauge for the tension meter (search for user 'hypster' and see what he did, which I am copying)0 -
Trouble is maybe too strong a word, more a minor irritation. I found if the spoke is leaning into he spokey it applies side loading making it a bit stiffer to remove from the nipple and it needs a little wiggle. This is with the spokey pro which has double jaws. The DT spoke key has a much larger channel for the spoke to sit in so it would not apply any side load. As I say minor detail but I just found it mildly irritating in use when it needn't be that way.Keezx wrote:Never had any trouble with the Spokey.
The regular spokey may not do this as the single jaw may allow a bit more flexibility. Or I'm just overly fussy. :oops:0 -
Thanks for the responses. I have decided to go for this as a starter...
http://www.rosebikes.co.uk/article/rose ... _info_tabs
Also, looking at spoke choice. I'm planning on building a 20h radial front with 24h rear. I've been looking at DT swiss spokes, will it be ok to use the ultra light 2/1.5/2 or would it be better using the 2/1.8/2 for strength??0 -
graememacd wrote:Thanks for the responses. I have decided to go for this as a starter...
http://www.rosebikes.co.uk/article/rose ... _info_tabs
Also, looking at spoke choice. I'm planning on building a 20h radial front with 24h rear. I've been looking at DT swiss spokes, will it be ok to use the ultra light 2/1.5/2 or would it be better using the 2/1.8/2 for strength??
Don't start with a 20/24... start with a 28/32, much more forgivingleft the forum March 20230 -
I hear what you're saying, would it be that much harder to do 20/24??0
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graememacd wrote:I hear what you're saying, would it be that much harder to do 20/24??
It's the principle... your first set and you are already trying to cut corners. Instead of concentrating on learning, you want the result fast. A higher count wheel will allow you to learn by your own mistakes, a lower count will either come out OK or crap and either way you won't know why.left the forum March 20230 -
ok that sounds like a good enough reason. I have found quite a few youtube videos on 32 spoke lacing but nothing much on 28, any pointers??0
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graememacd wrote:ok that sounds like a good enough reason. I have found quite a few youtube videos on 32 spoke lacing but nothing much on 28, any pointers??
Use a 2 cross, same as you probably wanted to do on the 24 rearleft the forum March 20230 -
Veronese68 wrote:
Definitely worth buying quality tools. The Park Tools TS2 stand is very good and solid, the TS8 does not look as solid, but I've no experience of it. The Jobsworth one above does look like a copy of the TS2 at the price of the TS8. Might be worth a punt.ugo.santalucia wrote:
Regarding spoke keys I bought one of these. I thought it would be a good one, but in use it's rather irritating. the notch for the spoke to sit in is too narrow so it sometimes grips the spoke. I noticed your DT Swiss key had a much larger channel so it would not be an issue. One of those things you don't notice until you actually use the thing.
I agree with the Parktools 2.2 wheelstand but I don't rely on it to measure dishing.
I use the spokey pro (4 sided) and never an issue with it. I did use one of the old style DT Swiss spoke key and to be honest I couldn't see the difference, however, I do like the idea of the new DT Swiss spoke key and the option to use it with the bladed spoke holder, just for that I think it's worth getting one.
The Parktools tension meter is a bit off the true tension but not a lot, maybe 10% max, it's quite well documented issue that over reads tension. As long as you are aware of that and apply just a little more tension then you are OK.0 -
I may well be more cack handed than most then.RRSODL wrote:I use the spokey pro (4 sided) and never an issue with it.0 -
RRSODL wrote:
I agree with the Parktools 2.2 wheelstand but I don't rely on it to measure dishing.
The Parktools tension meter is a bit off the true tension but not a lot, maybe 10% max, it's quite well documented issue that over reads tension. As long as you are aware of that and apply just a little more tension then you are OK.
Agree with NOT using the truing stand for centering(it will get you close but not dead on). Would also advise getting a good dishing tool. Not some flimsy piece of junk. I would add that a newbie building a wheel should have a tension meter. I'm a believer in finding out for sure what spoke tension's are and not simply thinking that you heard it right by plucking(maybe when you've built a goodly share of wheels you'll be able to tell by plucking or feel).No reason your first wheel shouldn't give you good useful service. However cutting corners and trying to do up some sort of fancy build(the first time out) is not the way to go. 28 or 32 J bend 14 ga. spokes, 2 or 3 cross, aluminum rims, standard groupset hub, and brass nipples will most likely give you your best shot at a wheel that will roll very nicely down the road for many miles.0 -
ugo.santalucia wrote:graememacd wrote:I hear what you're saying, would it be that much harder to do 20/24??
It's the principle... your first set and you are already trying to cut corners. Instead of concentrating on learning, you want the result fast. A higher count wheel will allow you to learn by your own mistakes, a lower count will either come out OK or crap and either way you won't know why.
I agree with ugo. You would only be adding more room for frustration and less for enjoyment.
When you have a bit more practice you can go ahead and build something a little harder and so on.
It never pays off to cut corners in wheelbuilding I think cause it is just a question of time before the problem shows up. It might take 20 minutes or 6 months..... whatever time it takes.0 -
brettjmcc wrote:I have that stand, bought it in the price drop last year for about £75. It is my first stand, and if you are OCD you can get too focused on the dials.
If I can fit it in the car, I could bring it down this weekend, as my in-laws are just over the hill at Maesy for you to have a look at.
A very kind offer. Thanks very much indeed. Apologies for not getting back to this sooner. I'm happy enough to go on recommendation alone.
I've noticed it is now £84.99 instead of the £99.99 I think it was when I mentioned it. I've noticed the rims I chose to buy have a weld seam that will no doubt make the gauge go wild, and I've read mention that stickers on rims tend to have that affect too. It's a shame they still reckon a wait until January for the park copy. I'm using disc brakes so fraction of a mm trueness isn't so important anyway, I'm guessing.0 -
dennisn wrote:RRSODL wrote:
I agree with the Parktools 2.2 wheelstand but I don't rely on it to measure dishing.
The Parktools tension meter is a bit off the true tension but not a lot, maybe 10% max, it's quite well documented issue that over reads tension. As long as you are aware of that and apply just a little more tension then you are OK.
Agree with NOT using the truing stand for centering(it will get you close but not dead on). Would also advise getting a good dishing tool. Not some flimsy piece of junk. I would add that a newbie building a wheel should have a tension meter. I'm a believer in finding out for sure what spoke tension's are and not simply thinking that you heard it right by plucking(maybe when you've built a goodly share of wheels you'll be able to tell by plucking or feel).No reason your first wheel shouldn't give you good useful service. However cutting corners and trying to do up some sort of fancy build(the first time out) is not the way to go. 28 or 32 J bend 14 ga. spokes, 2 or 3 cross, aluminum rims, standard groupset hub, and brass nipples will most likely give you your best shot at a wheel that will roll very nicely down the road for many miles.
Yes and no. A dish tool measures the distance to the end of the axle, a truing stand which is centred measures the distance to the dropouts, which is the one that matters. Some hubs have axle to dropout distance which is different left to right, in which case the dish tool becomes inaccurateleft the forum March 20230 -
ugo.santalucia wrote:dennisn wrote:RRSODL wrote:
I agree with the Parktools 2.2 wheelstand but I don't rely on it to measure dishing.
The Parktools tension meter is a bit off the true tension but not a lot, maybe 10% max, it's quite well documented issue that over reads tension. As long as you are aware of that and apply just a little more tension then you are OK.
Agree with NOT using the truing stand for centering(it will get you close but not dead on). Would also advise getting a good dishing tool. Not some flimsy piece of junk. I would add that a newbie building a wheel should have a tension meter. I'm a believer in finding out for sure what spoke tension's are and not simply thinking that you heard it right by plucking(maybe when you've built a goodly share of wheels you'll be able to tell by plucking or feel).No reason your first wheel shouldn't give you good useful service. However cutting corners and trying to do up some sort of fancy build(the first time out) is not the way to go. 28 or 32 J bend 14 ga. spokes, 2 or 3 cross, aluminum rims, standard groupset hub, and brass nipples will most likely give you your best shot at a wheel that will roll very nicely down the road for many miles.
Yes and no. A dish tool measures the distance to the end of the axle, a truing stand which is centred measures the distance to the dropouts, which is the one that matters. Some hubs have axle to dropout distance which is different left to right, in which case the dish tool becomes inaccurate
Yes and no. The Park Tools WAG-4 allows you to dish the wheel using dropout to dropout distance(which is the way to go) instead of end of axle to end of axle(not as accurate).0 -
Are you and Paolo trying to confuse me?
" A dish tool measures the distance to the end of the axle" It can do that but I use it to measure the distance to the lock nut (dropout if you like) In other words, it helps to determine that the distance between the rim and lock nuts are the same on both sides of the wheel.
"The Park Tools WAG-4 allows you to dish the wheel using dropout to dropout distance" I thought all dishing tools would do that, not just the Park Tools WAG-4.0 -
RRSODL wrote:Are you and Paolo trying to confuse me?
" A dish tool measures the distance to the end of the axle" It can do that but I use it to measure the distance to the lock nut (dropout if you like) In other words, it helps to determine that the distance between the rim and lock nuts are the same on both sides of the wheel.
"The Park Tools WAG-4 allows you to dish the wheel using dropout to dropout distance" I thought all dishing tools would do that, not just the Park Tools WAG-4.
Couldn't agree more. You need to center the wheel between the lock nuts, NOT between the ends of the axle. I have a Park WAG-4 and that's how I've always done it. It's made to be used like that.0 -
dennisn wrote:RRSODL wrote:Are you and Paolo trying to confuse me?
" A dish tool measures the distance to the end of the axle" It can do that but I use it to measure the distance to the lock nut (dropout if you like) In other words, it helps to determine that the distance between the rim and lock nuts are the same on both sides of the wheel.
"The Park Tools WAG-4 allows you to dish the wheel using dropout to dropout distance" I thought all dishing tools would do that, not just the Park Tools WAG-4.
Couldn't agree more. You need to center the rim between the lock nuts, NOT between the ends of the axle. I have a Park WAG-4 and that's how I've always done it. It's made to be used like that.0
