Cotic Soul, advice needed

duke duvet

Hi all,

I've had my Cotic Soul (mk2) for a couple of years now. Built up with 120mm maxle rebas, Hope pro 2 evo on Stans Crest and mainly lightish xc/trail build.

Overall it is good but there is one area I really struggle with and that is going up hills. I seem to spend most of my time getting off and walking. As someone who enjoys the climbs I am beginning to get a bit frustrated at the flex and lack of directness from the back end. We have some steep climbs up here that on my old xc race bike I had no problems on as you would expect. Even my old retro Kona (steel) climbs better.

I've had a 20mm layback seat post and more recently 10mm to try and help my climbing position. Its a USE sumo alloy which granted is somewhat flexy. Stem is 90mm, bars 710mm

My fitness is generally the same so it is definitely bike related.

So what do I change on the set up? Or should I be looking for a Whyte 905/901/19 frame.

I know lots of folk rave about the Soul and generally I agree but has anyone else experienced the same?

Thanks

Long_Time_Lurker

Why are you getting off - tired, lack of traction, front keep lifting, run out of gears/spinning out?

duke duvet

none of the above really! Best way to describe it is I'll be heading up a long non technical climb then the gradient gets stiffer and I can keep going for a short time but have to stop. Tiredness comes into it but it just feels a long, slow, slog. I am pretty good with positioning etc getting on the nose and keep spinning away. but the energy just seems to dissipate whereas on other bikes they seem to keep moving forward and I climb a lot better.

duke duvet

Just to add I'm running 3x9 so plenty of gears and a nobby nic 2.1 on the back. Not spinning out. Front end is a tad high (no spacers thought so maybe 120mm fork?)

jimothy78

Sounds like it's in your head. If you're not running out of gears, struggling for traction or loosing your balance then you can keep going indefinitely. Maybe you've got into a bad habit of expecting yourself to fail?

Use some positive mental imagery - banish negative thoughts like "this is a drag", relax and look around you at the scenery - concentrate on taking deep, slow breaths and enjoy the fact that you're out in the fresh air doing something you love. Imagine yourself floating up the hill like a cloud and (to a certain extent) you will.

duke duvet

I do agree about mental attitude. My approach was always think confident, get in a good position, get a good pace going and when stuff got really tough just battle it out. It always worked and I could climb some very steep stuff.
Coming from a racy xc alloy hard tail the bike was great for climbing and I knew it always gave me a bit extra to keep going.

I always do the same on the Cotic but maybe it is just a very different bike from what I am used to

The Rookie

The Soul frame isn't much heavier than an alloy, and to be honest it won't be flexing enough to make a difference, the best I can suggest is you look closely at a bike you are comfortable on and get the pedal to saddle and to grips orientation as close as you can, many things in climbing can make life harder, even struggling to keep the front down.

lostboysaint

The compliance of the steel frame should actually help with traction. It's most likely the less aggressive position (weight forward and lower on the XC bike) meaning that your body isn't working quite as efficiently on the Soul and you're not used to it yet.

The lay-back post won't help, bearing in mind the length of the front end on the Soul.

Long_Time_Lurker

I had the same on my Zesty - it's heavier and not as nimble as my Cube.
I used to try to power my way up to the top of climbs - and then spend 2 minutes getting my breath back.

I've had the change the way I ride depending on the bike. I now just concentrate on finding a comfortable gear where i can spin the pedals. I then try to think about anything other than the slope ahead. I still get to the top, just a bit slower (but I'm also fresher at the end, so I'm not gulping for air).

cooldad

As this is Buying Advice I suggest N+1

peter413

The Soul isn't quite an XC race bike so it will behave differently to a racier bike. Comparing my Maxlight to a Caldera frame with exactly the same parts on each the Maxlight zipped up climbs. The weights were obviously similar due to using the same parts, both were set up properly and they were both bikes I owned so this wasn't just a one ride thing. The Maxlight was by far the flexier of the two yet accelerated better than the Caldera. I loved my Maxlight and I'd still ride it if it didn't have a cracked chainstay

I'd work on your set up a bit more but at the end of the day I wouldn't expect the Soul to climb quite as well as a racy XC bike. Having had a quick ride on one I do know that they are still great at climbing and also great when the hill points downwards. I'm seriously considering a Soul or Solaris as my next bike and as a replacement for my Maxlight.

duke duvet

Hey everyone thanks for all the replies and good tips.

After my last post I had some time so went for a ride. I moved the saddle forward and adopted a positive attitude! I learned loads. It's not an xc race bike so I need to change my mindset and riding style. I do think I could tweak the set up with a stiffer inline post and a few less psi in the rear tyre. Also a bit more patience on the ups will do the trick as long term lurker said.

Also out today realised that I had become less aggressive in riding full stop and that has slowed me down. Must be cos I'm a softie new dad. I rode much better today on some steep short climbs and was really on it coming home. Until I clipped a metal post at full tilt resulting in some sore and bruised joints! I remembered too that the soul just flows downhill so well.

I'll persevere with the soul but might be tempted if a whyte frame comes up!

Cheers all, one happier rider now inspire of injuries!

allthegearnoidea

as a relatively heavy rider at 100kg pre Kit, i can honestly say, on climbs i have not noticed the flex in the Soul at all, mine's set up on 130mm forks, inline post, 80mm stem, 760 bars, Medium frame, at 6ft it fits me spot on, Lovely chuckable frame, the flex you notice or rather Springiness when hitting the downs and the roots, but not the ups,
Generally i have an Avid Dislike of Ups, but they are viewed as a Necessary evil and to be endured, at 130mm on the steep the front can get a bit wandery but a shift in weight to the nose the saddle helps sort that, i can drop my forks down to anything between 80-130mm but rarely do, same for locking out, normally if i do either i tend to forget when i start hitting the downs!!

i would say it could be in the ol' noggin, a bit of a 'Oh B#gger, here's the climb i dont like' situation, i get into that quite frequently, i did find that doing the same route in the dark helps a Lot, you dont generally pick out the spots that trigger the psychological side of things, is normally when your half way up you realise it!

that said, the Soul isnt for everyone! i Love mine, and i know quite a few that have them and are the same, but they dont always suit everyone,

duke duvet

allthegear good to hear from another Soul rider, sounds like you are doing pretty good on those climbs.

I think you are right that some of it is in my head. We have a couple of climbs here that are pretty full on (puke hill being aptly named) and in the past I could do them but now my heart sinks a bit at the thought! So I reckon with a better attitude, some technique & set up changes Ill be in a better frame of mind. I do think I have got into some bad riding habits and have never moved on from old school xc riding. A skills course would really help me a lot I think.

Other than this the Soul is just awesome, I rode Deliverance at Glentress and the frame just soaks up a lot of the trail chatter and you can just hoon round the turns. Seems a shame to swap the frame out as overall I am pretty happy. I could always drop the fork to 100mm but it is just great at 120mm going down.

paul.skibum

Sounds like you need to put in more miles and vary how you ride - attack it a little more - stand up and pedal to climb from time to time, force a little more vim into your vigour! I haven't ridden a Soul but I hear only good things about their nature so to hear someone bitching about one being sloppy on a climb makes me think its the rider or the set up not the frame - Sorry!

allthegearnoidea

i'd leave it at 120mm fella, you get the best of both then, a lot of XC bikes are 120mm now as it is, 140mm can be wandery but if you allow a little more sag can bring it down, 100mm feels like your Riding Into the ground all the time after 120+!!
i simply Love riding mine, had it over 4 years now, its battered in terms of some peoples bikes, but every scar has a story as such!! ;-)

duke duvet

yeah it is def staying at 120mm! Allthegear sounds like you really click with your bike and I have had some cracking rides on mine so can understand that. They are something special.

Paul I have come to the conclusion that I do need a bit more vim into my vigour (I like that) as I mentioned and also some set up tweaks. But on the whole the Soul is awesome but the ups were my one problem.

benpinnick

Try tipping your saddle forward and rolling the bars more forward too, it will give you a much more solid platform for climbing.

duke duvet

thanks Ben, not thought of those. Normally keep my saddle flat and a bar tweak should really help too.

Look forward to trying those out when my hip and hand are better. Should be flying uphill after all the encouragement and tips on here!

chrisw333

In terms of hankering for a Whyte, the 905 is a great bike but I think the head angle is slacker than a Soul (which is relatively steep for a trail hardtail), so I would have thought it may be even further removed from your old XC style bike (climbing wise) than the Soul.

Excellent all round hard tails though (905's)

rockmonkeysc

What tyres do you have? Could it just be drag from a heavy/fat/underinflated/rubbish tyre?
You may even find it easier running a taller gear rather than spinning away in the granny ring. I found that once I had a bit of leg strength it takes less energy to get up climbs quickly in a high gear.

duke duvet

Normally in summer have a maxxis aspen on the back but just swapped to a nobby nic 2.1 pressure wise about 30psi.

Both quite light tyres and ok pressures, the nic climbs really well.

Last night I tweaked the bars and saddle and think that will really help. Recently although climbing on the nose felt like I was tipping off the back backwards so with saddle and bars forward think that will make me more efficient. I'll report back on Monday when I get a ride in to share how things have gone.

Thanks again everyone for tips, advice and hep.

duke duvet

Managed to get a ride in the other day and see if set up and my mind set helps improve climbing.

I definitely noticed that with a more positive attitude I climbed a lot better. Was in higher gears, out of the saddle and strava times show improvements.

Tweaking the saddle forward and bars left me with shoulder ache so bars have gone back and on the flat it takes a lot more effort to maintain pace. But will keep the saddle angle the same but move back and see how that goes.

Now if you could all sort my recent comedy descending skills all will be good!