Wheels choices

chubbo

Dear all

I have recently purchased my first "good" bike - Giant TCR Advanced - and loving it!

The bike comes with Giant P-SL1 Wheels, which I understand are the most basic wheels made by Giant. http://www.giant-bicycles.com/en-nz/gear/product/p.sl1.wheelsystem/2765/59395/#features

So far the wheels have been fine for training, but I wonder how good they really are. Unfortunately, I could not find any proper reviews, and I do not have much experience to know how good wheels feel like. I signed up for a 160km sportive, and I wonder if I could improve the experience by getting new wheels.

I have been thinking about the following wheelsets:

* Campagnolo Zonda - http://www.wiggle.com/campagnolo-zonda-clincher-wheelset/

* Campagnolo Shamal Ultra Mega G3 - http://www.wiggle.com/campagnolo-shamal ... -wheelset/

* Campagnolo Neutron Ultra - http://www.wiggle.com/campagnolo-neutro ... -wheelset/

* Zipp 30 - http://www.wiggle.com/zipp-30-clincher-wheelset-2013/

My questions are:

1. At this price point, will I feel any noticeable difference between my P-SL1 and these wheels? Will 200-300g of weight really make that much difference?

2. Out of the above wheels, are the more expensive = better? If not, which of the four would you recommend?

3. Any other wheels I should consider at these prices? I am looking for something what would roll fast and climb well.

Thanks in advance!

diy

A £500 wheelset should be a noticeable improvement, though personally I'd run the standard ones until they are showing signs of wear. Last thing you want to be doing is running "posh" wheels through the winter.

Bobbinogs

A few points.

First off, most wheels roll fast and most wheels will climb as well as the rider putting out the watts per kg can allow. Magazines may buy into the marketing BS terms like 'spin up fast' and 'climb well' but I find it all a bit tiresome. I spend a lot of time waiting at the tops of climbs for riders who are riding bikes that cost the price of a small car.

Next up, with a handle like Chubbo, how much do you weigh, roughly? Not that I want to call you a fat bstard but some wheels have limits...and there is also a limit to expectations to the performance benefits of shaving 300g off a wheelset when the rider is 95kg.

All those wheels listed are good wheels but when is your sportive? Most now will be in the springtime so you might be better to invest some money in good winter kit so that you can ride through and reach the next season with some decent base miles in your legs before spending some money on flash kit. Then, treat the purchase as a reward for all those winter miles and enjoy the feel of a purchase well earned.

Finally, and this is me being a tight-arsed git, IMO £300 gets you good wheels, £600 will often get you good wheels that cost £600. Nice light decent wheels really are great to ride with though. I like riding so anything that makes it more pleasurable is worth the money so I am not saying don't spend money, just tune your expectations more towards enjoying your sportive and spend your money wisely.

Hope I don't sound to piffy for a Monday morning

diy

I used to think that until I got my dura-ace C50s : they are like wings. Hardly noticed going from Ritchey DSs to Fulcrum racing 3s, but the Dura-aces are in a different league.

I think we spend too much time looking at weight and aero when the quality of the hubs makes a big difference.

imposter2.0

A local shop team near me all rode these TCRs a couple of years ago. They rode them completely standard on 105 kit (that was the deal, I think). They didn't seem to have any issue competing on them at 1st cat and 2nd cat level.

Let's just say the wheels won't be holding you back. They may not look as funky as a nice pair of deep sections (which, if you want some, then go for it), but I don't think there's any need to start convincing yourself that the stock wheels are not up to the job.

lostboysaint

I wouldn't buy mass-produced wheels again. I'm a big fan of hand-builts and would speak to a decent wheelbuilder and get some built that I know can be easily serviced/maintained and that will offer the right performance for the riding that I do.

chubbo

Thanks for your responses, everyone.

Hehe, Bobbinogs, I am not fat, but I can definitely stand to lose some weight (I am 179cm, 88kg at the moment).

The sportive is at the end of November (I am in New Zealand). One reason why I was considering a new set of wheels is because I purchased an 11-28 cassette for the sportive (which is quite hilly) and more difficult rides, but I still want to keep using my current 11-25 cassette for training and day to day rides (which will make me work harder). Although I understand that it is not that too hard to swap cassettes, I don't really want to keep doing it. This made me thinking about a second set of wheels.

As I started searching on Wiggle, I saw that many people seem to rave about Campagnolo Zondas. The problem was, however, that I don't really know how good/bad my stock P-SL1 wheels are and whether £220 wheels like Zonda would be an improvement.

But after reading your opinions, maybe I need to rethink whether I need a second set of wheels at all...

diy

I take it you checked your mech can handle the 11-28?

chubbo

Hi diy. Yes, I have an 11 speed Ultegra Di2, which can handle 11-28.

ugo.santalucia

chubbo wrote:

Thanks for your responses, everyone.

Hehe, Bobbinogs, I am not fat, but I can definitely stand to lose some weight (I am 179cm, 88kg at the moment).

The sportive is at the end of November (I am in New Zealand). One reason why I was considering a new set of wheels is because I purchased an 11-28 cassette for the sportive (which is quite hilly) and more difficult rides, but I still want to keep using my current 11-25 cassette for training and day to day rides (which will make me work harder). Although I understand that it is not that too hard to swap cassettes, I don't really want to keep doing it. This made me thinking about a second set of wheels.

As I started searching on Wiggle, I saw that many people seem to rave about Campagnolo Zondas. The problem was, however, that I don't really know how good/bad my stock P-SL1 wheels are and whether £220 wheels like Zonda would be an improvement.

But after reading your opinions, maybe I need to rethink whether I need a second set of wheels at all...

Don't you have one of the trendiest wheel builder on the planet down there?

http://wheelworks.co.nz/

chubbo

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Don't you have one of the trendiest wheel builder on the planet down there?

http://wheelworks.co.nz/

Do we?

I would imagine they would not be cheap though...

ugo.santalucia

chubbo wrote:

Do we?

I would imagine they would not be cheap though...

I would imagine if they are successful it's because they can cater for all pockets... pound for pound bespoke wheels are priced in line with factory counterparts, except the latter often are heavily discounted...
AFAIK asking is free of charge, give them a call...

lostboysaint

They do the SL23, which combined with a 28 or 32 hole hub would be excellent for your weight and your riding. They'll fatten a 25mm tyre up nicely and be more comfortable with the lower pressures as well.

chubbo

Again, thanks a lot everyone.

To clarify about bespoke wheels - are they generally considered better than similarly priced mass produced wheels (ignoring potential discounts on mass produced wheels)? Or is the only reason for going bespoke is to ensure that the wheels can handle the rider's specific weight, etc?

The initial ballpark quote provided by Wheelworks is more than I intended to spend - however, I am happy to consider it if there are good reasons for it. So I am trying to understand what makes bespoke wheels different from mass produced once.

Thanks
Vlad

ugo.santalucia

chubbo wrote:

Again, thanks a lot everyone.

To clarify about bespoke wheels - are they generally considered better than similarly priced mass produced wheels (ignoring potential discounts on mass produced wheels)? Or is the only reason for going bespoke is to ensure that the wheels can handle the rider's specific weight, etc?

The initial ballpark quote provided by Wheelworks is more than I intended to spend - however, I am happy to consider it if there are good reasons for it. So I am trying to understand what makes bespoke wheels different from mass produced once.

Thanks
Vlad

If you are heavy and the builder knows what he is doing, they will be more durable. Of course if you only cycle 1-2,000 miles per year it's probably not worth bothering.

Vlad? Nice name...

chubbo

Damn, I can't believe I used my real name in a post, hehe.

gimpl

I think the P-SL1 wheels are actually pretty good, they're certainly not the most basic in the range. I was persuaded to buy a Composite 1 Defy over a Composite 2 because it had those wheels on and they made a big difference.

ugo.santalucia

chubbo wrote:

Damn, I can't believe I used my real name in a post, hehe.

To answer your question in detail, what makes them different?

In essence the fact that they are assembled from components which are avialable individually, while saying Mavic (or Campagnolo) never supply spare hubs and rarely supply spare rims and when they do they price them so that it's more convenient to get a brand new wheel instead. Other brands mostly follow what Mavic does.
This comes handy if you clock many miles, as rims last 5-10 K miles as average. So typically after 10 K you can have your rims replaced on your bespoke wheels for saying 100-200 GBP all in or get a new set of Mavic Ksyrium for 400 + GBP.

However, if you only ride occasionally, your rims might outlast your inclination to ride them... in other words you might desire new flashier wheels before yours are due, in which case the argument for hand built wheels is less strong. Of course a crash is always around the corner and repairs are much easier and chepaer with bespoke wheels... in many cases free of any charge... you might struggle to find a bike shop willing to repair a Campagnolo wheel, given the amount of hassle involved in fitting a spoke to a Neutron or Zonda wheel... will you be happy to do it yourself? Tthat said Mavic, to name one, offers a crash replacement scheme for a little extra on top of their 2 years warranty... so there are lots of factors to consider.

Ultimately if you are heavy most wheels on the market are not suitable for you... typically Mavic has a weight limit of 100 Kg for their range, including the bike and other brands are not far off.

Bobbinogs

Some wise and balanced words from Ugo. I would also add another consideration into the mix:

Type of riding. Do your rides venture far from home and/or stick to nice roads and/or do you ride at night?

I think these factors are important because the risk and impact of popping a spoke midride (through potholes, etc.) is reduced when riding the higher spoke counts usually (but not always) associated with handbuilts.

As an example, if a heavy rider rides on long audaxes through poorly lit backlanes complete with the odd rutted surface, then they would be better advised to select a 32/36 spoke (typically handbuilt) wheelset as any problems can be sorted on route. Popped spoke? No problem, remove the offending article and either retension as a temp workaround or just slacken off the brakes to get around...or even buy a new spoke at any convenient LBS and refit en-route. Whereas when a spoke pops on a bling 20h wheelset, chances are that a wheel will be unrideable and a replacement spoke may take 3 months to reorder through a specialist dealer.

Like most things, there is no clear answer as to which wheelset to get. I am a fan of RS80/1s and Zondas..but I also love riding some dandy handbuilts (Record/Veloce hubs with Excellight/Open Pro rims, etc.).

ilm_zero7

my friends ride the Shamal mega 3's - I am envious ! say no more

ugo.santalucia

ILM Zero7 wrote:

my friends ride the Shamal mega 3's - I am envious ! say no more

Trump him with the Mega-Ultra...

chubbo

As an update, I was considering either getting custom built wheels from wheelworks.co.nz or to simply cope with my current wheels...until I saw a set of Campy Zondas on Wiggle for £130.

At this price, I don't care if the wheels last more than a year. At least it will give me an idea how other wheels feel and will allow me to utilise my second cassette.

I was happy to receive the email this morning that my order was shipped out, because it appears that they are already sold out (Wiggle still has the more expensive 2-way Zondas).

Anonymous

You won't get them unfortunately as it was a pricing error