Tubeless Confusion

2plus2

I'm thinking about trying out a tubeless setup for cyclocross but I'm slightly confused about the options available to set it up. The rims and tyres are both tubeless ready (DT Swiss R23 Spline rims and Schwalbe Rocket Ron tyres).

As I understand it there are two options (unless I've got this wrong):

- I can install a Tubeless Kit + sealant i.e. from Stan's or DT Swiss which includes moulded strips with integrated valves.

- I can fit tape (Stan's yellow tape?) and use separate removable valves, also with sealant.

Are both those options viable? Is one more reliable than the other? I'm leaning towards the tape and removable valves as it seems like if something goes very wrong it would be easier to remove the valves and fit a tube. I'll also be swapping between tubeless CX and standard clincher road tyres on the rims so I'm thinking the removable valves would help here as well.

Just not sure if there's a benefit to using rim strips rather than tape that I'm missing. Cheers.

2plus2

Actually...just realised that maybe those tyres are no good for a tubeless setup. Might have to rethink my choice there.

ugo.santalucia

If it's CX low pressure, most tyres should work. Tape + valve is a better option should you need to insert an inner tube in an emergency to get back home.

Have a read at this article I wrote some time ago

http://paolocoppo.drupalgardens.com/con ... conversion

2plus2

Thanks for that, good read. Have you continued to use the same setup since you wrote the article?

ugo.santalucia

2plus2 wrote:

Thanks for that, good read. Have you continued to use the same setup since you wrote the article?

Yes... I even did Paris-Roubaix on those and eventually run out of thread on the rear tyre and binned it... never had to fix a flat. I then moved to a set of Vittoria XG, also used tubeless, but suffered one terminal puncture, courtesy of a shard of glass almost an inch long. The tyre won't go tubeless any more, but it still has a second life with an inner tube and a tyre patch.
I then got a pair of road tubeless tyres to try (Schwalbe one) which I have only just reluctantly removed today and replaced with a set of heavy duty tubed commuting things for the coming winter.

rowlers

ugo.santalucia wrote:

If it's CX low pressure, most tyres should work. Tape + valve is a better option should you need to insert an inner tube in an emergency to get back home.

Have a read at this article I wrote some time ago

http://paolocoppo.drupalgardens.com/con ... conversion

Just re-read this piece and you've got me thinking about converting my Archtype/Vittoria Randoneur Cross Pro's to tubeless on my Pro6. Do you think this is a worthwhile conversion?
I'm thinking Stans tape, valves and sealant?

(sorry for the high jack, but is relevant )

ugo.santalucia

rowlers wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

If it's CX low pressure, most tyres should work. Tape + valve is a better option should you need to insert an inner tube in an emergency to get back home.

Have a read at this article I wrote some time ago

http://paolocoppo.drupalgardens.com/con ... conversion

Just re-read this piece and you've got me thinking about converting my Archtype/Vittoria Randoneur Cross Pro's to tubeless on my Pro6. Do you think this is a worthwhile conversion?
I'm thinking Stans tape, valves and sealant?

(sorry for the high jack, but is relevant )

The thing is

1) The Randonneur are puncture proof, so the all sealant debate is of little use... if you puncture on one of those, it's likely to be something quite big that the sealant can't fix anyway

2) The Randonneur are nice, but pretty thick tyres, certainly not supple, you won't make them much better by removing the inner tubes... you will probably shave 300 grams and that's the only advantage... on balance I wouldn't bother... unless you want to try for the sake of trying and practicing, which is fair enough. I have not found information on whether they do seal nicely or they burp... my money is on the former though.

rowlers

Yeah, I suppose your right.
TBH, I find the Randonneurs a little harsh, I've dropped the pressure to 50 or so which is better, they were cheap as chips so nothing lost if I go for something a little more "racy".
Cheers

ugo.santalucia

rowlers wrote:

Yeah, I suppose your right.
TBH, I find the Randonneurs a little harsh, I've dropped the pressure to 50 or so which is better, they were cheap as chips so nothing lost if I go for something a little more "racy".
Cheers

They are touring tyres, meant to deal with glass, flint, screws and thorns. Under the black rubber there is an extra layer of red rubber before you get to the kevlar layer. It all numbs down the ride and make them rather rigid. 50 PSI is about right for the 32 and if you have the bigger ones you can safely go down to 40 or even less if you do mainly offroad. I did try mine on the cobbles ahead of Roubaix and decided to go for something a bit more flexible.
On the upside, they last forever

rowlers

ugo.santalucia wrote:

rowlers wrote:

Yeah, I suppose your right.
TBH, I find the Randonneurs a little harsh, I've dropped the pressure to 50 or so which is better, they were cheap as chips so nothing lost if I go for something a little more "racy".
Cheers

They are touring tyres, meant to deal with glass, flint, screws and thorns. Under the black rubber there is an extra layer of red rubber before you get to the kevlar layer. It all numbs down the ride and make them rather rigid. 50 PSI is about right for the 32 and if you have the bigger ones you can safely go down to 40 or even less if you do mainly offroad. I did try mine on the cobbles ahead of Roubaix and decided to go for something a bit more flexible.
On the upside, they last forever

Agreed, I think they are a bit overkill for my use tbh (commuting winter training), but there doesn't seem to be much choice in 28/32 road tyres...

ugo.santalucia

rowlers wrote:

Agreed, I think they are a bit overkill for my use tbh (commuting winter training), but there doesn't seem to be much choice in 28/32 road tyres...

I use mine (road version) as 32 most of the year and only use proper CX tyres or road race tyres on special occasions

rowlers

Well, I've only ridden a couple of times so I'll see how I get on before swapping, If only they weren't as "dead" feeling.

Thanks for your comments

maddog 2

rim strips are heavier but the tyre will inflate/seat more easily with them, and burp less (although burping is more of an MTB tyre problem). I use them on the MTB when setting up a std. tyre tubeless. If your rim is non-tubeless or non-tubeless-ready then using a rimstrip can help to get the tyre to seat properly.

tape+valve is lighter and fine for proper tubeless tyres on proper tubeless or tubeless-ready rims. Stans tape is expensive though. 3M crossweave is much cheaper and super tough/sticky. Stans valves are good though.

For tubeless-ready rims then tape+valves will be fine. I'd use proper tubeless tyres though. Often, normal tyres can take an age to seal and hold pressure as the sidewalls are too porous. I use the Vittoria XG tubeless tyres on taped up Archetypes.

lostboysaint

Three rounds of electricians tape is every bit as effective. I have two sets of Mavic EN521 MTB wheels, one with a full Stans set up and one with electricians tape and Stans valves and there's absolutely no difference in use whatsoever. Tyres go on and off the same, stay inflated the same, need the same amount of sealant etc.etc. Stans tape and rim strips are all about convenience. They fit, first time (the tape is the right width - assuming you ordered the right one!) and it all goes together quickly and easily.

maddog 2

CX tends to be higher pressures than MTB so puts lecky tape under more.. well.. pressure. 3M crossweave is cheap like lecky tape but stronger.