Rolling Resistance vs Puncture Resistance

bsharp77

Its that time of the year again!

Changed the conti sport tyres on my commuter at the weekend for a pair of Vittoria Rubino Pro Techs.
I was expecting to feel a bit of compromise in regards to rolling resistance....but these have changed the bike feel completely! It is so dead and perceived effort is much greater - the tyres seem to grip the road like mad giving high rolling resistance.

Its changed my ride so much, id rather have a few punctures and enjoy a responsive ride, rather than put up with that level of resistance - it just makes the bike no fun at all.

Just wondering what anyone else has tried and can comment on - im thinking of sticking a set of conti gp4000s II on, like I have on the weekend bike (although id be interested in anyones views on the GP four seasons).

danlikesbikes

Have both conti's for summer & winter bike.

The 4seasons were on my best bike through winter and did feel a little less speedy & agile, though in theory less likely hood of a puncture but only theory as I didn't have any.

But since then now have a winter bike so a lot heavier so no direct comparison.

ugo.santalucia

Get both and go tubeless...
Just punctured on my way home, but oppss, it fixed itself... job done and they are the best rolling tyres I have ever ridden

Schwalbe one Tubeless, awesome!

Grill

4 Seasons are the best compromise tyre on the market.

ugo.santalucia

Grill wrote:

4 Seasons are the best compromise tyre on the market.

But if an extra 20 quid are not an issue, you no longer have to compromise... 8)

Grill

Not all of us ride tubeless.

ben@31

In 2 years only had 1 real puncture* with conti sport inner tubes inflated to 100 psi and over. I'm guessing rock solid tubes will just roll over stones without deforming and pinching? I like to use a track pump before every ride, even if it's just one or two pumps to top up.

*The other puncture was a fault with the rim. Lack of rim tape caused a hole to rub / pinch.

bsharp77

Thanks for all the responses so far guys....looks like the four seasons would still be a compromise.

Ive never really paid much attention to tubeless before - very interesting Ugo...ill have to look into it a lot more, as anything that offers a smooth responsive ride, with good puncture protection has to be a winner.

Ill have to go looking through some older threads for more info...!

bsharp77

Had a good read through some old threads and some youtube videos and im thinking tubeless is the way to go.
In fact, it looks much simpler than faffing around with tubes, especially when using the sealant.
Bide-discount also have the schwalbe ones at a reasonable price, so no reason not to give it a shot.

Just one question Ugo - on my commuter I still have the stock CXP22 rims. No world beaters, but are solid and will do for the impending winter commutes! Would converting these using joes yellow tape be ok?
Any other tips much appreciated. Will hope to convert next weekend....a birthday treat! 8)

ugo.santalucia

bsharp77 wrote:

Just one question Ugo - on my commuter I still have the stock CXP22 rims. No world beaters, but are solid and will do for the impending winter commutes! Would converting these using joes yellow tape be ok?
Any other tips much appreciated. Will hope to convert next weekend....a birthday treat! 8)

Not really... you need tubeless or at leads tubeless compatible wider rims if you want to run high pressure road tubeless tyres

ugo.santalucia

Grill wrote:

Not all of us ride tubeless.

But you should... you don't appreciate it until you are riding in the pouring rain and you hear the hissing of sealant spraying out and doing the work for you.... 8)

bsharp77

Meh...I was afraid you might say that!
Any recommendations for a set of tubeless compatible rims on a tight budget?!!

simon_masterson

ben@31 wrote:

In 2 years only had 1 real puncture* with conti sport inner tubes inflated to 100 psi and over. I'm guessing rock solid tubes will just roll over stones without deforming and pinching? I like to use a track pump before every ride, even if it's just one or two pumps to top up.

*The other puncture was a fault with the rim. Lack of rim tape caused a hole to rub / pinch.

Well, if you were trying to stab a hole in a piece of stiff board and a piece of thick flexible plastic, which would you expect to find easier? I'm more prepared to believe the oft quoted anecdotal proof that a flexible tyre inflated adequately will resist incursion than that a less flexible tyre overinflated will do the same.

ugo.santalucia

bsharp77 wrote:

Any recommendations for a set of tubeless compatible rims on a tight budget?!!

The cheapest tubeless ready rims might be some Alexrims ones if you can find them. Otherwise Velocity A 23... as for tubeless read sets... you need to look around for offers.
Thing is tyres are more expensive, so it's not a conversion you can do on a tight budget

Grill

bsharp77 wrote:

Thanks for all the responses so far guys....looks like the four seasons would still be a compromise.

Ive never really paid much attention to tubeless before - very interesting Ugo...ill have to look into it a lot more, as anything that offers a smooth responsive ride, with good puncture protection has to be a winner.

Ill have to go looking through some older threads for more info...!

Only a compromise as compared to GP4000s. They weight 220g, have better protection than Gatorskins, are as stable in the wet as the top tyres out there, so the only thing you lose is the lower Crr of the Black Chilli compound. We should all be so lucky.

ben@31

Simon Masterson wrote:

ben@31 wrote:

In 2 years only had 1 real puncture* with conti sport inner tubes inflated to 100 psi and over. I'm guessing rock solid tubes will just roll over stones without deforming and pinching? I like to use a track pump before every ride, even if it's just one or two pumps to top up.

*The other puncture was a fault with the rim. Lack of rim tape caused a hole to rub / pinch.

Well, if you were trying to stab a hole in a piece of stiff board and a piece of thick flexible plastic, which would you expect to find easier? I'm more prepared to believe the oft quoted anecdotal proof that a flexible tyre inflated adequately will resist incursion than that a less flexible tyre overinflated will do the same.

To me it makes sense... if you have a lot of pressure inside the tube acting outwards. It is less likely to deform inwards by a stone. The tyre will stay solid and just roll over the stone, the pressure inside is greater than the force outside.

If there were less pressure the tyre and tube would deform much easier to a point where it can't deform any more and split / rupture.

I would be interested to see how many punctures those who regularly inflate their tubes to 100+ psi have, compared to those who never check the pressure and allow it to dissipate to 40 psi?

I also inflate my tyres before every ride as I like to think there's less rolling resistance with solid tyres at 100+ psi as the contact area stays small and not deforming under weight.

Manc33

I wish they made a Marathon Plus tyre like a chocolate - with a smooth middle.

The M+ has quite a deep tread down the middle of it. :evil:

Why can't we have good things.

simon_masterson

ben@31 wrote:

Simon Masterson wrote:

ben@31 wrote:

In 2 years only had 1 real puncture* with conti sport inner tubes inflated to 100 psi and over. I'm guessing rock solid tubes will just roll over stones without deforming and pinching? I like to use a track pump before every ride, even if it's just one or two pumps to top up.

*The other puncture was a fault with the rim. Lack of rim tape caused a hole to rub / pinch.

Well, if you were trying to stab a hole in a piece of stiff board and a piece of thick flexible plastic, which would you expect to find easier? I'm more prepared to believe the oft quoted anecdotal proof that a flexible tyre inflated adequately will resist incursion than that a less flexible tyre overinflated will do the same.

To me it makes sense... if you have a lot of pressure inside the tube acting outwards. It is less likely to deform inwards by a stone. The tyre will stay solid and just roll over the stone, the pressure inside is greater than the force outside.

If there were less pressure the tyre and tube would deform much easier to a point where it can't deform any more and split / rupture.

I would be interested to see how many punctures those who regularly inflate their tubes to 100+ psi have, compared to those who never check the pressure and allow it to dissipate to 40 psi?

I also inflate my tyres before every ride as I like to think there's less rolling resistance with solid tyres at 100+ psi as the contact area stays small and not deforming under weight.

I use 32mm (27 x 1 1/4) on my main road bike, and the only puncture I've had in the last 2 1/2 years was an intrepid thorn to the sidewall, despite some horrible road surfaces. I don't bother to keep my tyres topped up. There is a reason why it's generally accepted that overinflated tyres are more susceptible to punctures. If the tyre can't give, something sharp will penetrate it very easily, as in the example. The testimony of a great many using high TPI tubs on British roads without incessant punctures is instructive, particularly as most (if not all) tubs aren't built like Marathon Pluses, either.

As for rolling resistance, it seems to be generally accepted now that a 25mm can roll better than a 23mm, so it's never simple. I'm less than inclined to believe amateur viewpoints on this that aren't based on hard numbers, though.

charlie_potatoes

Simon Masterson wrote:

I'm less than inclined to believe amateur viewpoints on this that aren't based on hard numbers, though.

Me too

ugo.santalucia

Simon Masterson wrote:

As for rolling resistance, it seems to be generally accepted now that a 25mm can roll better than a 23mm, so it's never simple. I'm less than inclined to believe amateur viewpoints on this that aren't based on hard numbers, though.

Differences are always minimum, unless you go the opposed sides of the spectrum. I use Randonneur PRO 32 for commuting and general abuse and Schwalbe ONE tubeless for posher rides. Of course the latter roll significantly better, hold speed better, get to speed faster and are half a pound lighter for the set... in essence they are a lot more fun to ride. The former are designed for mileage and will give you 7000 puncture free miles on any road or track.
The latter are race tyres, first puncture after 500 miles, sealed by the Stans liquid without getting off the bike. I think at a push they will do 2,000 miles before being square, full of cuts and good for the bin.
That's my philosophy, I don't mess about with shades of grey... if I want a fast tyre I get the best out there, if I want a commuting tyre I get the toughest out there... all these 25 mm Gatorskin, 4 Season, Rubino Tech are compromises that I find pretty pointless as they don't do anything well.
If you want to embrace technology, punctures are a thing of the past, the real issue is how many miles you need your tyres to do and that's where you have to sacrifice ride quality if you want mileage or mileage if you want ride quality