5000 Lumens Light for £19.99?!?

Samvan77

Hi all in my quest for to prepare myself and kit out my bike for commutes on dark country lanes I have come across this almost to good to be true offer on a bike light http://ow.ly/CskaM

I have read about many other users rating cheap import lights from China but just wanted to check if anyone else out there have tried out one of these and what their feedback is.

snowster

Link doesn't work?

Ouija

Unless it's got five XM-L's, running each emitter at 3 amps it's not going to put out 5000 lumens. But doing that would generate huge amounts of heat and would require a pretty humungous battery pack.

A lot of these mutli-emitter lights use more than one emitter so that they DON'T have to run one emitter at 3 amps, as emitters are more economical at lower amps. For instance, a single XM-L style emitter running at 3 amps puts out around a 1000 lumen but two emitters running at just 1.5 amps put out MORE than 1000 lumens (how much depends on which model/bin emitter) despite the fact they are running at only half their maximum output. Three emitters running at 1 amp put out even more light (but still draw the same amount from the battery...... 3 amps) etc.

So, simply add up how many emitters/LED's are on the light and you get the theoretical max lumen output if all are run at full brightness. But almost none are.

Samvan77

snowster wrote:

Link doesn't work?

doh!!!

Here we go again

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-Cree-XML-U2 ... 486abd3929

diy

Wouldn't you prefer something you can remove easily to avoid it getting nicked?

The heads for those cost about £8 which is pretty good given the LEDs are around £3.
http://www.lightmalls.com/solarstorm-x2 ... -lamp-only

These leaves you to source a decent pack and charger. Ideally you want one with removable cells. So you can source decent 18650s. Those in the sealed packs tend to be less than 1.5Ah each.

Test show the the head can push about 1-1.2k Lumen on max - which is still a lot. 1.5-2A is about where you want these to get the sweet spot between light,heat and efficiency.

If you rig up your own pack then this will be a fantastic light.

Personally I'd want something I can remove and pop in my bag, which is why I run torches with the same LED, two of which will out perform the above by quite a lot due to the higher ampage and better positioning of the lights. I accept you have the faf of buying cells, mount and charger, but then I don't have to worry about getting stuck with an empty or wet pack.

For road use I use 2 of these http://www.lightmalls.com/ultrafire-wf- ... ch-1-18650
Which with a decent 18650 cell produce about 1.5k lumen on max (750 each). Not that you need that - they are fine on low and give a 10 hour run-time, ~3-4 on medium and 1.5-2 on high as I use cells with genuine 2.7Ah rating (@3A)

t4tomo

I used to ahve a torch type one like the link above

I now use one of these http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2000-Lumen-CREE-XML-T6-LED-BICYCLE-BIKE-CYCLING-FRONT-HEAD-LIGHT-TORCH-HEADLIGHT/121345977805?_trksid=p2047675.c100010.m2109&_trkparms=aid%3D555012%26algo%3DPW.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20140221143405%26meid%3Dc0f654b6f5c84e83950acabe9d7aa4c5%26pid%3D100010%26prg%3D20140221143405%26rk%3D6%26rkt%3D24%26sd%3D311028431145

which I prefer and is plenty bright for dark country lanes etc. I nver bother with anything except lowest setting.

if the one the OP linked really is 5000lm thne that is insanely bright. better used as football pitch floodlights than a bike light.

Samvan77

diy wrote:

Wouldn't you prefer something you can remove easily to avoid it getting nicked?

The heads for those cost about £8 which is pretty good given the LEDs are around £3.
http://www.lightmalls.com/solarstorm-x2 ... -lamp-only

These leaves you to source a decent pack and charger. Ideally you want one with removable cells. So you can source decent 18650s. Those in the sealed packs tend to be less than 1.5Ah each.

Test show the the head can push about 1-1.2k Lumen on max - which is still a lot. 1.5-2A is about where you want these to get the sweet spot between light,heat and efficiency.

If you rig up your own pack then this will be a fantastic light.

Personally I'd want something I can remove and pop in my bag, which is why I run torches with the same LED, two of which will out perform the above by quite a lot due to the higher ampage and better positioning of the lights. I accept you have the faf of buying cells, mount and charger, but then I don't have to worry about getting stuck with an empty or wet pack.

For road use I use 2 of these http://www.lightmalls.com/ultrafire-wf- ... ch-1-18650
Which with a decent 18650 cell produce about 1.5k lumen on max (750 each). Not that you need that - they are fine on low and give a 10 hour run-time, ~3-4 on medium and 1.5-2 on high as I use cells with genuine 2.7Ah rating (@3A)

Hi I like the two torches option, how do you mount these on the handlebars? It does not look they come with any mounting brackets

diy

I use a couple of loops of MTB inner tube on the drops or my aero clip-ons. I sleeve the body to stop it chipping the carbon in a long bit of tube and use two short strips of tube to attache to the bars. But if you want them on the top bar or MTB bar you can either use a couple of copper pipe clips and a bolt or buy a universal mount (google universal bicycle flashlight mount) 100s of options.

You also need a charger (google 18650 power pack or nitecore 18650 charger or XTAR 18650 charger) and some 18650s which you can get from an old laptop pack or ebay (try to buy panasonic or senybor if you are not using laptop cells) Avoid anything that says it has less than 2.5Ah or more than 3Ah capacity. below 2.5Ah wont be up to it and over 3Ah is just BS.

There is a massive thread in the MTB buying section. Seriously 4 of these and I outshine anyone with a £100+ setup off-road.

I did a bit of a brain dump here - https://sites.google.com/site/easyierth ... bikelights
but its hard to keep it up to date

MichaelW

Does it illuminate the sky as well as the road?

Samvan77

diy wrote:

I use a couple of loops of MTB inner tube on the drops or my aero clip-ons. I sleeve the body to stop it chipping the carbon in a long bit of tube and use two short strips of tube to attache to the bars. But if you want them on the top bar or MTB bar you can either use a couple of copper pipe clips and a bolt or buy a universal mount (google universal bicycle flashlight mount) 100s of options.

You also need a charger (google 18650 power pack or nitecore 18650 charger or XTAR 18650 charger) and some 18650s which you can get from an old laptop pack or ebay (try to buy panasonic or senybor if you are not using laptop cells) Avoid anything that says it has less than 2.5Ah or more than 3Ah capacity. below 2.5Ah wont be up to it and over 3Ah is just BS.

There is a massive thread in the MTB buying section. Seriously 4 of these and I outshine anyone with a £100+ setup off-road.

I did a bit of a brain dump here - https://sites.google.com/site/easyierth ... bikelights
but its hard to keep it up to date

Wow, you have really made this area of expertise your own. Thank you very for this is really useful to know, I was consider spending a £100.00 plus on a set of lights. I will definitely give this a go first. I have seen that these(the torchlights) are available from UK vendors on E-bay

craker

I had something of a fail with a DealExteme / 18650 torch as it flickered like mad. There are some suggested fixes (sellotape the battery to keep it in place better) that didn't work for me and maybe I was unlucky with my particular torch / brand (I can't offer a brand or model or anything other than it's no good for cycling with ;-) )

Haven't had a similar problem with the remote battery jobbies, £16 for 1000 lumens which is brighter than a dark country lane needs.

diy

Samvan77 wrote:

Wow, you have really made this area of expertise your own. Thank you very for this is really useful to know, I was consider spending a £100.00 plus on a set of lights. I will definitely give this a go first. I have seen that these(the torchlights) are available from UK vendors on E-bay

Came about after going Night MTBing with a couple of mates about 5-6 years ago. As a total noob I turned up with conventional halogen bulb lights and spent most of the ride in fear of death as I trashed through the trails in near total darkness trying to keep up with the pack. I was told I needed to spend at least £200 - I turned up 3 weeks later with 50 quids worth and had a more light than everyone.

At 6 quid buy 3 or 4 and have some spares. Wherever you choose to buy - make sure its XM-L2 (XM-L U2 or U3 at a push) - Ideally from a seller who publishes the driven amps and claims at least 2A-2.5A on high. Not that it matters quite so much for road riding.

Samvan77

diy wrote:

Samvan77 wrote:

Wow, you have really made this area of expertise your own. Thank you very for this is really useful to know, I was consider spending a £100.00 plus on a set of lights. I will definitely give this a go first. I have seen that these(the torchlights) are available from UK vendors on E-bay

Came about after going Night MTBing with a couple of mates about 5-6 years ago. As a total noob I turned up with conventional halogen bulb lights and spent most of the ride in fear of death as I trashed through the trails in near total darkness trying to keep up with the pack. I was told I needed to spend at least £200 - I turned up 3 weeks later with 50 quids worth and had a more light than everyone.

At 6 quid buy 3 or 4 and have some spares. Wherever you choose to buy - make sure its XM-L2 (XM-L U2 or U3 at a push) - Ideally from a seller who publishes the driven amps and claims at least 2A-2.5A on high. Not that it matters quite so much for road riding.

Hi

So excuse my ignorance here but what does the XM-L2 or XM-L U2 refer to? Is it the type of led lights?

Most of the Ultrafire lights I have seen on Ebay are listed as XM-L T6. Are these any good or should I steer clear of these?

Ouija

XM-L is the older LED, XM-L2 is the newer LED (more light and less heat at identical amps).

The "T6" designation is the BIN number. Like CPU's and Graphic Chips in video cards, LED's are tested after manufacture and graded into different BINS (literally). So in the case of CPU's and GFX chips, they may produce too much heat or have defects. But rather than throw them away manufacturers just downgrade or disable sections of the chip and sell them off cheap in budget computers, running at lower clock speeds and with fewer features. Likewise, Chips that exceed expectations (in the vast number they are made in some are bound to come out more perfectly formed than was expected) are often sold off as Ultra desirable models (with appropriate silly names like "Titanium Edition" "Deluxe Edition" etc) and bought by gamers and modders for their overclocking potential.

Similarly, LED's such as the XM-L and XM-L2 get graded into seven quality categories from 'T2' to 'T6', with T6 being a LED that meets design expectations for light and heat production at a certain ampage and T2 being as badly formed as the emitter can be while still able to function. The last two BIN numbers, 'U2' and 'U3' are LED's that exceeded expectations and actually throw out more light and less heat than was planned for.

Typically, a bog standard newer XM-L2 T6 puts out similar levels of light as an old deluxe XM-L U2. Though the old XM-L T6 is still a good light. Just depends on what package it comes in. A lot of the newer XM-L2's seem to be coming in smaller packages running at lower amp draw to take advantage of the higher output and lower heat it generates. Older XM-L T6's tend to require a bit higher ampage to achieve similar brightness and, subsequently, produce a bit more heat that requires more venting and heat sinking to manage it all.

But that doesn't mean the older XM-L T6 can't outperform a newer XM-L2 T6. The brightest lights i have are still XM-L T6 driven (despite having seven or eight XML-2 driven lights). They just tend to be bulkier and a bit more consumptive on battery power.

It's also worth noting that they always tend to tell you what BIN number an old XM-L is in most listings (T5,T6,U2,U3 etc) but most of the newer XM-L2 lights just say "XML-2", with no BIN number after it (I always assume T6, but there is no guarantee that's the case).

You can find the spec sheets for XM-L and XM-L2 here (about halfway down the page).

thistle_

I might be missing something, but does it come with a battery?

The photo shows the head unit, a charger, some O rings and a head mount but I couldn't see a battery pack? Is it internal?

supersonic

The one in the original link comes with a battery pack and charger. They output about 1200 lumens, which is still a good whack. They last 1-2 hours on full, the packs tend to degrade quickly. But on low power they go on for ages. A good, no nonsense buy that is easy to use.

Samvan77

Ouija wrote:

XM-L is the older LED, XM-L2 is the newer LED (more light and less heat at identical amps).

The "T6" designation is the BIN number. Like CPU's and Graphic Chips in video cards, LED's are tested after manufacture and graded into different BINS (literally). So in the case of CPU's and GFX chips, they may produce too much heat or have defects. But rather than throw them away manufacturers just downgrade or disable sections of the chip and sell them off cheap in budget computers, running at lower clock speeds and with fewer features. Likewise, Chips that exceed expectations (in the vast number they are made in some are bound to come out more perfectly formed than was expected) are often sold off as Ultra desirable models (with appropriate silly names like "Titanium Edition" "Deluxe Edition" etc) and bought by gamers and modders for their overclocking potential.

Similarly, LED's such as the XM-L and XM-L2 get graded into seven quality categories from 'T2' to 'T6', with T6 being a LED that meets design expectations for light and heat production at a certain ampage and T2 being as badly formed as the emitter can be while still able to function. The last two BIN numbers, 'U2' and 'U3' are LED's that exceeded expectations and actually throw out more light and less heat than was planned for.

Typically, a bog standard newer XM-L2 T6 puts out similar levels of light as an old deluxe XM-L U2. Though the old XM-L T6 is still a good light. Just depends on what package it comes in. A lot of the newer XM-L2's seem to be coming in smaller packages running at lower amp draw to take advantage of the higher output and lower heat it generates. Older XM-L T6's tend to require a bit higher ampage to achieve similar brightness and, subsequently, produce a bit more heat that requires more venting and heat sinking to manage it all.

But that doesn't mean the older XM-L T6 can't outperform a newer XM-L2 T6. The brightest lights i have are still XM-L T6 driven (despite having seven or eight XML-2 driven lights). They just tend to be bulkier and a bit more consumptive on battery power.

It's also worth noting that they always tend to tell you what BIN number an old XM-L is in most listings (T5,T6,U2,U3 etc) but most of the newer XM-L2 lights just say "XML-2", with no BIN number after it (I always assume T6, but there is no guarantee that's the case).

You can find the spec sheets for XM-L and XM-L2 here (about halfway down the page).

Thanks for clarifying this!

Samvan77

Ouija wrote:

XM-L is the older LED, XM-L2 is the newer LED (more light and less heat at identical amps).

The "T6" designation is the BIN number. Like CPU's and Graphic Chips in video cards, LED's are tested after manufacture and graded into different BINS (literally). So in the case of CPU's and GFX chips, they may produce too much heat or have defects. But rather than throw them away manufacturers just downgrade or disable sections of the chip and sell them off cheap in budget computers, running at lower clock speeds and with fewer features. Likewise, Chips that exceed expectations (in the vast number they are made in some are bound to come out more perfectly formed than was expected) are often sold off as Ultra desirable models (with appropriate silly names like "Titanium Edition" "Deluxe Edition" etc) and bought by gamers and modders for their overclocking potential.

Similarly, LED's such as the XM-L and XM-L2 get graded into seven quality categories from 'T2' to 'T6', with T6 being a LED that meets design expectations for light and heat production at a certain ampage and T2 being as badly formed as the emitter can be while still able to function. The last two BIN numbers, 'U2' and 'U3' are LED's that exceeded expectations and actually throw out more light and less heat than was planned for.

Typically, a bog standard newer XM-L2 T6 puts out similar levels of light as an old deluxe XM-L U2. Though the old XM-L T6 is still a good light. Just depends on what package it comes in. A lot of the newer XM-L2's seem to be coming in smaller packages running at lower amp draw to take advantage of the higher output and lower heat it generates. Older XM-L T6's tend to require a bit higher ampage to achieve similar brightness and, subsequently, produce a bit more heat that requires more venting and heat sinking to manage it all.

But that doesn't mean the older XM-L T6 can't outperform a newer XM-L2 T6. The brightest lights i have are still XM-L T6 driven (despite having seven or eight XML-2 driven lights). They just tend to be bulkier and a bit more consumptive on battery power.

It's also worth noting that they always tend to tell you what BIN number an old XM-L is in most listings (T5,T6,U2,U3 etc) but most of the newer XM-L2 lights just say "XML-2", with no BIN number after it (I always assume T6, but there is no guarantee that's the case).

You can find the spec sheets for XM-L and XM-L2 here (about halfway down the page).

Thanks for clarifying this!

snowley

This has been a really informative thread.

Thanks for all input!!!

diy

You'll often find that most Night MTBers know more about LEDs and Lithium batteries than they do tyres. Getting as much light as you possibly can on a trail is really all that prevents us from riding at day time speeds.

That an the odd grumpy badger, deer or cottager

redbikejohn

t4tomo wrote:

I used to ahve a torch type one like the link above

I now use one of these http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2000-Lumen-CREE-XML-T6-LED-BICYCLE-BIKE-CYCLING-FRONT-HEAD-LIGHT-TORCH-HEADLIGHT/121345977805?_trksid=p2047675.c100010.m2109&_trkparms=aid%3D555012%26algo%3DPW.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20140221143405%26meid%3Dc0f654b6f5c84e83950acabe9d7aa4c5%26pid%3D100010%26prg%3D20140221143405%26rk%3D6%26rkt%3D24%26sd%3D311028431145

which I prefer and is plenty bright for dark country lanes etc. I nver bother with anything except lowest setting.

if the one the OP linked really is 5000lm thne that is insanely bright. better used as football pitch floodlights than a bike light.

I use these too and they are plenty bright enough. No need to spend loads on lights! The battery last well to. I used them for over three hours without any noticeable drop in performance.

anthdci

If you follow what diy says you wont go far wrong. I run the same setup he has described, but I use handle bar mounts like http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bicycle-Bike-LED-Flashlight-Torch-Lamp-Mount-Clamp-Holder-Bracket-Adjustable-/400720787945?pt=UK_SportGoods_CyclAcces_RL&hash=item5d4cd1f9e9.

I find having both on the lowest setting is great for dark riding but when there is street lights. Put them both onto high and you can see on any country road. Having 1 is sufficient but it is nice to have redundancy in case one fails for whatever reason. I haven't had one fail yet, whereas I had two similar lights from a bigger brand that cost about £100 each fail on me within the space of a couple of months.

diy, out of interest, I have seen battery tube extenders on ebay, so to double the capacity of these style of torches.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/151396373025?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
From my basic knowledge of electricity this would mean running two 18650 batteries in series and therefore give 3.7v x 2 = 7.4v and therefore blow the led. Or would it double the runtime?

diy

It depends on the driver and the current it consumes. Some of the drop ins can go to 15v as they are aimed at 12v power sources (boats, cars caravans etc). If your current light is drawing less than 1.5A on full then you may get away with it. I "blued" an MC-E this way. was friggin bright for about 2 mins. then not so much TBH - I just carry a spare cell. But if the driver is a variable input one then it will just drop the current consumed as the voltage goes up giving you the longer run time.


This is one of the 501bs mounted to the wife's MTB using some MTB innertubes looped together.

anthdci

diy wrote:

It depends on the driver and the current it consumes. Some of the drop ins can go to 15v as they are aimed at 12v power sources (boats, cars caravans etc). If your current light is drawing less than 1.5A on full then you may get away with it. I "blued" an MC-E this way. was friggin bright for about 2 mins. then not so much TBH - I just carry a spare cell. But if the driver is a variable input one then it will just drop the current consumed as the voltage goes up giving you the longer run time.

i think it is exactly the same as this
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/WF501B-CREE-XM-L-2-LED-5-Modes-LED-1600-Lumens-Flashlight-Mini-Torch-Light-Lamp-/151109086631?pt=UK_SportsLeisure_Camping_LightsLanternsTorches&hash=item232ecdada7

How would I know if it can take a higher voltage?

Manc33

I got a Cree T6 x3 LED off Amazon (it was coming from Hong Kong) with a 4x18650 battery pack and charger, even had a helmet clip. It was £23 and is ludicrously bright. I got lucky and got UK stock so I even received it in 2 days.

Its only drawback is the battery, its not all that powerful and its not waterproof. I got a 6x18650 and a 4x18650 pack from DX.com, they were dirt cheap, are water resistant enough for the UK and they seem to last a lot longer than the battery pack that came with the light, what do you expect for £23 lol. With the two battery packs (that has about 10 hours of lighting power on the bike if both packs are charged) it all came to about £45 in the end.

Before looking at those China/HK lights, I was contemplating spending about £50 on a front light, but seriously, what can you buy for that here?

It is so bright I wish I had just got a 2x one, but they seem more expensive than the ones with three in half the time.

With my three LED one:

One LED: I use on the road, but it has to be pointed down, you will blind drivers! Don't take this lightly!

Two LED's: Totally unlit roads in pitch black, has a good throw on the light.

Three LEDs: I never ever have all three on - firstly because it ain't much brighter than two and secondly because it uses 50% more power than having two on. Between one and two its a huge difference, between 2 and 3 its almost pointless. I guess its there for extremely bad conditions like heavy rain in the dark.

One of the best things I ever bought for my bike. You look at ones in Halfords at £70 and just laugh. Anything this bright on sale here is over £100.

diy

anthdci wrote:

How would I know if it can take a higher voltage?

It says working voltage 3.7v - 4.2v, if you have a DC transformer or usb power supply and a DC Amp meter you can push 5-6v through it and see what current is consumed. Ideally you don't want it going above 3A otherwise its more heater than light.

anthdci

diy wrote:

if you have a DC transformer or usb power supply and a DC Amp meter

I don't know what they are or how I would use them.

diy

To be honest they are pretty unweildy in inline format better off having a side by side setup. However if you really want a 2 cell option. This is £10
http://www.lightmalls.com/solarforce-l2 ... ht-2-18650
or this £15.51
http://www.lightmalls.com/fixed-star-fs ... ot-include

Though I think they are both pretty chunky and I find two of the 501bs plenty for road use. Plus easier to mount.

anthdci

yea I just saw the extension tubes for coppers and thought it might be handy. I use two 501b and it is plenty and I've not killed the batteries. Most of my commute is on lit roads so I run them on low there, then the couple of miles on unlit roads I put them upto high. I charge them at work, so its usually about 40mins x 2 (each way) on low, then 10mins x 2 on high.

Have been tempted over the last couple of days to up it to 4 lights on the front. I have space... :idea: