Could a crosser-commuter also make a good tourer?

KnightOfTheLongTights

And if so, which one?
At the moment I have an old Spesh Allez Triple that I commute on and occasionally use for touring.
I must say it's done pretty well at both and I'm tempted to just leave it - but then I've been tempted by cyclocross and was wondering if I could get a three-in-one bike, as it were. (Space is an issue, I can only have two bikes, and the BMC ProMachine stays.)
And if I didn't end up doing much cyclo-cross would that significantly degrade my choice? In that there are non-crosser bikes that will be much better as commuter-tourers?
Phew, er that's it. ta.

bendertherobot

Don't see why not. My Condor Bivio does commuting and cross duties and takes a rack.

arthur_scrimshaw

Depends what touring you have in mind. I use a Boardman CX for general commuting and bad weather use but in June used it for a Jogle and it was great. I put a carradice camper longflap on the back (with a qr carradice support) and a bar bag. This was staying in b+b's and hostels, if you want to be completely self sufficient and camp you'd need front panniers as well. Not sure if any Cross bikes have mountings for these?
Edit .. The gearing is a tad high for really steep stuff when loaded up. I was running a 34/30 as the lowest gear and had to zig zag on a few Cornish hills but most if the time just fine. A triple would be better if carrying more stuff.

rolf_f

As far as I can see, all a cross bike is is a trendy touring bike without braze ons. Best bet might be to get a tourer and take the mudguards off for cross!

cjcp

In principle, yes.

My Kona Jake was very comfortable, but I'd use a 34 for touring instead of a 36. And disc brakes rather than cantis.

UndercoverElephant

I would think that a cross bike would lack the long wheelbase of a good touring bike. That said, Genesis are doing the Tour de Fer this year, based on the Croix.

MichaelW

Rolf F wrote:

As far as I can see, all a cross bike is is a trendy touring bike without braze ons. Best bet might be to get a tourer and take the mudguards off for cross!

CX race bikes and CX/doitall; are different.
Race bikes are clean of eyelets, chainsay bridge and any mud-traps.

Tourers usually have longer chainstays which places heavy loads bewteen the axles.
With shorter chainstays, loads hang over the back end, wagging the dog.

UndercoverElephant

UndercoverElephant wrote:

I would think that a cross bike would lack the long wheelbase of a good touring bike. That said, Genesis are doing the Tour de Fer this year, based on the Croix.

Ah, re-reading the info on them, they lengthened the chainstays and increased the fork rake.

http://www.genesisbikes.co.uk/blog/02/0 ... our-de-fer

tgotb

As others have alluded, it really depends what you mean by touring. If you're looking at heavily-loaded panniers full of camping kit, probably not. At the other end of the spectrum, I did a week's tour in the Alps last month, with nothing more than a 2kg dry bag strapped under the saddle of my road bike. Pretty much any bike would work for that sort of touring.

If you want something that's as suitable for touring as your Allez, a cross bike should be fine, so long as it has sensible gearing and isn't too racy; as someone else mentioned, pure race cross bikes tend not to have things like bottle cage mounts, mudguard attachments etc.

For any tour where you're staying in proper accomodation, I'd seriously consider the ultra-lightweight approach. 2kg is (just) enough to include foul weather kit and a complete change of clothes for the evenings, the riding's nicer without the encumbrance of lots of kit, and you don't need a special bike (or a luggage rack).

KnightOfTheLongTights

Morning and thanks for the replies.
Yes, when I go touring it is fairly lightweight - certainly not camping gear - but a week or 10 days with two small rear panniers.
The Spesh has been ok for that - except heel clearance meaning you have to set the panniers back, which isn't great for handling / balance etc. But you get used to that.
And I'd be very much looking at the lighter end, which is what puts me off 'old-fashioned tourers': I want to be able to get up the big Alpine / Pyrennean passes and steeper climbs as part of long days out (>100km) with panniers.
Again the triple and relative lightness of the Spesh has been good for that - but I believe with a new 11sp compact set up, you can get a ratio equivalent to that afforded by a granny ring anyway?
Given this, any more ideas of specific bikes c.£1.0-1.5k (absolute max) would be much appreciated.

arthur_scrimshaw

Re gearing - this is a common misconception - you won't get anywhere near the low gears of a touring triple with a compact, the best you'll get with a compact is a 34/32 or possibly 34/34. A touring bike with a triple setup can get down to 22/36 but normally something like a 26/36.

ugo.santalucia

My Crosser has a rather aggressive racey geometry, yet it feels very comfy for long distance... I've done 9 hours on it with no back problems.
I guess any bike that fits well can be made into a good tourer

tgotb

Arthur Scrimshaw wrote:

Re gearing - this is a common misconception - you won't get anywhere near the low gears of a touring triple with a compact, the best you'll get with a compacy is a 34/32 or possible 34/34. A touring bike with a triple setup can get down to 22/36 but normally something like a 26/36.

You can put a 33 chainring on a compact.

My recommendation to the OP would be to ditch the panniers and pannier rack, just take the kit you *really* need. Once you're not lugging a pile of spare clothes and luggage around, you can use whatever gearing you'd be comfortable with for a day ride.

These weigh next to nothing, and are easy to strap under/behind a saddle. Enough space in the 13 litre one for tools, minimal toiletries, clothes and lightweight shoes for evenings, and warm/waterproof layers for foul weather on the bike.

KnightOfTheLongTights

TGOTB wrote:

My recommendation to the OP would be to ditch the panniers and pannier rack, just take the kit you *really* need. Once you're not lugging a pile of spare clothes and luggage around, you can use whatever gearing you'd be comfortable with for a day ride.

These weigh next to nothing, and are easy to strap under/behind a saddle. Enough space in the 13 litre one for tools, minimal toiletries, clothes and lightweight shoes for evenings, and warm/waterproof layers for foul weather on the bike.

Normally I'd be right with you on the 'go lightweight' thing (I travelled for a year with a 25-litre rucksack) but I draw the line a bit higher in this case: I like reading and I like having books, though I do have a kindle now; I like having a change set of bibs and jersey so I can wash the other; I don't mind the extra weight, it's good training.
Point and kit-pointer taken though, thanks.

KnightOfTheLongTights

Arthur Scrimshaw wrote:

Re gearing - this is a common misconception - you won't get anywhere near the low gears of a touring triple with a compact, the best you'll get with a compact is a 34/32 or possibly 34/34. A touring bike with a triple setup can get down to 22/36 but normally something like a 26/36.

this is where I get confused and my brain starts to hurt. Those ratios on the tourer triple sound mental! You could get up Porlock Hill with Dermot O'Leary on your back with that!? What sort of spread is there between the rear sprockets if you're ending up with 36t?

I *think* the smallest gear on the Allez triple is 30-25 - that would make sense wouldn't it?

tgotb

For the sort of weights of kit you're talking about, one bike to look at would be the Kinesis Pro6. You see quite a few of them on the race circuit, and they're identical geometry to my race bikes, but have all the mudguard eyes, rack mounts etc. I use one as a commuter, with rack and panniers, and pretty happy with it; handling is fine with two full panniers (though I'm sure a "proper" longer-wheelbased touring bike would be better in that regard).

Edit: For my last tour I avoided books completely by installing the Kindle reader on my phone (along with a bunch of movies). You need to be happy reading and watching movies on a small screen though!

Sharkyssurfers

well i have a speccy sectuer sport disc bike that came with 28's could go higher if needed, but currently running 23's on it, it has mounts on the front and rear for racks so can quite easily be a tourer/crosser/commuter if you want. It is very comfortable to ride on and have done over 90 miles per day on it over a week quite easily on it, so i guess its another option in the pot :?

KnightOfTheLongTights

sounds good sharkys thanks

Guess I need to decide whether or not I actually want to change up, then start looking at bikes ...

arthur_scrimshaw

KnightOfTheLongTights wrote:

Arthur Scrimshaw wrote:

Re gearing - this is a common misconception - you won't get anywhere near the low gears of a touring triple with a compact, the best you'll get with a compact is a 34/32 or possibly 34/34. A touring bike with a triple setup can get down to 22/36 but normally something like a 26/36.

this is where I get confused and my brain starts to hurt. Those ratios on the tourer triple sound mental! You could get up Porlock Hill with Dermot O'Leary on your back with that!? What sort of spread is there between the rear sprockets if you're ending up with 36t?

I *think* the smallest gear on the Allez triple is 30-25 - that would make sense wouldn't it?

They are a bit extreme but the standard tourer will have a 26 front spocket and you can put whatever cassette you fancy on (within reason and constraints of the rear mech). As mentioned above, the less you load your bike the higher the gears you can get away with. With a heavily loaded bike you may need a bail out ratio of less than 1:1 eg 26/28 or on your Allez put a 32 cassette on there so your bottom gear will be a 30/32. That should cope with most hills but your RD may not cope with that size cassette.