Club runs

musto_skiff

It is that time of year where we return to the club run on Sundays.

I was wondering how other clubs run theirs ...

Do you run one group or a number of smaller ones?

If you run multiple groups how do you split them?

Do you allow unattached riders and members of other clubs to ride?

How big a group do you ride in?

Matthewfalle

Why wouldn't you allow unattached/members of different clubs ride?

musto_skiff

Matthewfalle wrote:

Why wouldn't you allow unattached/members of different clubs ride?

I'm not saying you shouldn't I'm aware that some clubs don't and was wondering how common that was.

Some expect unattached riders to join after 3 guest rides.

Just trying to get a feel for how various clubs operate.

norvernrob

Just don't run it like Sheff CC. A woman I work with asked to go on a ride with them (she's very fit, a top 300 UK marathon runner and when she did the Holme Moss classic with us she averaged over 15mph on a 65 mile, 6,000ft ride).

Anyway they blasted off, didn't wait at any stage and she barely hung onto the last man to follow where they were going. By the end she was wrecked and needless to say won't be riding with them again or joining the club.

danlikesbikes

My club is pretty big & rides are split into 4-5 main groups based on average group speed. In the summer the middle 2 groups are often too many riders to run safely so we split them down to 2 groups of equal size & speed with slightly different route but same cafe stop so people still meet up together.

As others have said we do tend to get unattached (I.e. Not paid members) or new potential members who tend to try out for 2-4 rides before we ask them to join.

Omar Little

3 groups based on average group speed. There are sometimes also more informal groups too but its 3 main rides.

Unattached riders are allowed to ride a couple of times before they decide to join or not. That is the official policy anyway and i think there might be an insurance element to this. In practice though if a friend or someone from another club wants to tag along occassionally then they are welcome to do so.

musto_skiff

Danlikesbikes wrote:

As others have said we do tend to get unattached (I.e. Not paid members) or new potential members who tend to try out for 2-4 rides before we ask them to join.

That sounds reasonable, what about riders from other local clubs?

danlikesbikes

We do get a few, but I'm a member of 2 clubs myself & pay for the pleasure. So guess it cuts both ways

jgsi

NorvernRob wrote:

Just don't run it like Sheff CC. A woman I work with asked to go on a ride with them (she's very fit, a top 300 UK marathon runner and when she did the Holme Moss classic with us she averaged over 15mph on a 65 mile, 6,000ft ride).

Anyway they blasted off, didn't wait at any stage and she barely hung onto the last man to follow where they were going. By the end she was wrecked and needless to say won't be riding with them again or joining the club.

Possibly, over estimated her abilities?
A racing club will always have a pretty hard fast group but surprised that another road group wasnt also available.
Back to fitness, keeping up with a focussed road team (and if this is the club I think you are referring to) they are pretty handy in road racing. .. and it isnt ridden like a sportive.. hard sections will be attacked for training and this is where the gaps open up.
Explain it is down to experience but if she wants to transition from running and sportives the the fitness gap has been explained.
I know it feels sometimes unfair when you have to struggle to keep up but we all have to be realistic and not put blame where it dont apply..

DavidJB

NorvernRob wrote:

Just don't run it like Sheff CC. A woman I work with asked to go on a ride with them (she's very fit, a top 300 UK marathon runner and when she did the Holme Moss classic with us she averaged over 15mph on a 65 mile, 6,000ft ride).

Anyway they blasted off, didn't wait at any stage and she barely hung onto the last man to follow where they were going. By the end she was wrecked and needless to say won't be riding with them again or joining the club.

Sounds like she's not fit enough.

Smithster

NorvernRob wrote:

Just don't run it like Sheff CC. A woman I work with asked to go on a ride with them (she's very fit, a top 300 UK marathon runner and when she did the Holme Moss classic with us she averaged over 15mph on a 65 mile, 6,000ft ride).

Anyway they blasted off, didn't wait at any stage and she barely hung onto the last man to follow where they were going. By the end she was wrecked and needless to say won't be riding with them again or joining the club.

It could also be considered a little unfair on the rest of the club riders to have to hold back on a serious training ride, if someone cannot seriously keep up?

If she did manage to hang on to the back and was wrecked afterwards. Sounds like a good training ride for her too anyway

Bet seriously most clubs run a couple of rides out anyway. A serious road ride at pace and a more sociable ride. Some riders ride with either dependant on the mood, and some drop back from the quicker ride to the slower ride if the pace is to high.

Jules Winnfield

My club runs 3 rides over the weekend. 2 on a Saturday which feature a fast group which averages about 18-20 mph. A slightly slower group which sets off from the same start point about 15-20 minutes later than the fast guys and these ride at an average of 16-18 mph. And then we have the Sunday social which is exactly what it says on the tin. A steady ride of around 2.5-3 hours which average 13-16 mph.

We also have a chain hang on Tuesday nights so we have something for everyone.

Brakeless

NorvernRob wrote:

Just don't run it like Sheff CC. A woman I work with asked to go on a ride with them (she's very fit, a top 300 UK marathon runner and when she did the Holme Moss classic with us she averaged over 15mph on a 65 mile, 6,000ft ride).

That isn't really very quick and wouldn't be quick enough for most clubs fast groups.

I look after our clubs email enquiries and we get lots of emails asking about joining our clubruns. Our clubruns are open to anyone but we do ask that first time riders go with our steady ride and aren't allowed with our fast group.
This is for the benefit of everyone, it's no fun for the first time rider if they're hanging on from the word go and it's at best a pain for the regulars if they have to keep waiting at the top of every little rise, at worst it's plain dangerous to have someone in the middle of a group who is concentrating on not blowing up rather than whats going on around them.

We get lots of emails from people saying they ride at 18mph avg for 100km etc etc and yet when they come out on the club run they're breathing out thier arse within 5 miles.I really don't get why people have to do this, I've got far more respect for the people who say they just want to join a club to improve and learn new routes etc etc. We had too many fast runs disrupted by people overestimating thier ability and also not having the skills to safely sit in a bunch at 20+ mph.

Once they've been on a steady run the guys who lead that ride will let them know if their group skills and speed are good enough to go out with the faster group next time and be a part of it rather than just hanging on to it.

slowbike

Brakeless wrote:

We get lots of emails from people saying they ride at 18mph avg for 100km etc etc and yet when they come out on the club run they're breathing out thier ars* within 5 miles.I really don't get why people have to do this, I've got far more respect for the people who say they just want to join a club to improve and learn new routes etc etc. We had too many fast runs disrupted by people overestimating thier ability and also not having the skills to safely sit in a bunch at 20+ mph.

Average speed doesn't mean anything - they may well average 18mph over a flat course or one with lots of passing traffic (wind assist) yet couldn't stick with a group who can maintain that pace over lumps and bumps.

Sitting safely in a bunch is a totally different skill to being able to ride quickly.

very sensible practice to put the "newbies" into an easier group to start with.

iPete

Our club will often have 100 riders on a sunny Sunday, so there are runs of different routes and levels. These are posted on the forum the day before.

Membership has now been capped at 600 and new members need to contact the club and attend specific Sunday rides that involve some basic skills training.

I went on my first run on my fixed bike and fully accepted that if I held up the fast group that'd be OK. Too many people expect a sportive experience and see this as arrogant roadies. Arrogance is turning up with no clue, getting in the wrong group and throwing your toys when you fall out the back and expect 10 other people to slow the pace for the next 80 odd miles.

epo.wks mkII

Brakeless wrote:

Once they've been on a steady run the guys who lead that ride will let them know if their group skills and speed are good enough to go out with the faster group next time and be a part of it rather than just hanging on to it.

Good approach, wish more clubs operated like this.

whoof

I've been a member of five different clubs over the years.
All have had the same policy of come and have a go but sooner or later you either have to join or find someone else to ride with. All the clubs I've been a member of have allowed visiting member of clubs to ride.

IMO every club (that's club not racing team) should try and organise more than one ride. Doing this allows new members who may be new to cycling or cycling in a group to go out on a more steady club run without fear of being hammered and left behind. There are also usually existing members who and taking a kicking every week who are glad of a break. It does require somebody to lead the ride but pretty soon these rides are self-suffcient. I've known clubs double their membership in a couple of seasons doing this and conversely clubs with 2-3 riders on their 'club-run' who hammer everyone who turns up.
Many of the new slower members are a little older that the main racing age (20-30s) but these people are more likely to volunteer to help out with other club duties such as marshalling.

Matthewfalle

If you can't make regular rides with a club (say due to shift patterns or travelling away a lot) are you still expected to join even if you'll only ride with them every couple of months/once a month?

t4tomo

DavidJB wrote:

NorvernRob wrote:

Just don't run it like Sheff CC. A woman I work with asked to go on a ride with them (she's very fit, a top 300 UK marathon runner and when she did the Holme Moss classic with us she averaged over 15mph on a 65 mile, 6,000ft ride).

Anyway they blasted off, didn't wait at any stage and she barely hung onto the last man to follow where they were going. By the end she was wrecked and needless to say won't be riding with them again or joining the club.

Sounds like she's not fit enough.

or fragile male ego's not wanted to be "chicked"

KnightOfTheLongTights

My west London club makes a big deal about 'no one will be left behind / dropped'. I think this is a bit wrong-headed.
If a slower / introductory ride or a steady group is offered to a new or newish rider and they turn that down in favour of riding with a faster group then it should be up to them to either keep up or find their own way back.
Now I think people should within reason try and ride with people who are slightly faster than them - otherwise how do you improve. But I also think getting dropped is a good thing - it teaches you how hard cycling is, how frustrating it can be and how much effort it takes to be fast.
It also means you'll make an effort to learn the route so you can find your own way back.
If you want to go out with the headbangers you should be prepared to get shelled out the back.
I think a club going on and on about 'no one gets dropped or left behind' is counter-productive.

slowbike

KnightOfTheLongTights wrote:

It also means you'll make an effort to learn the route so you can find your own way back.

Do you guys always do the same route?

Don't think I've ever done the same route twice with our club - makes for an interesting ride - we don't intentionally drop riders either, but if someone really isn't keeping pace then they may be invited to drop off ...

But then our rides aren't chaingang type rides, these are just quick social rides....

BrandonA

JGSI wrote:

NorvernRob wrote:

Just don't run it like Sheff CC. A woman I work with asked to go on a ride with them (she's very fit, a top 300 UK marathon runner and when she did the Holme Moss classic with us she averaged over 15mph on a 65 mile, 6,000ft ride).

Anyway they blasted off, didn't wait at any stage and she barely hung onto the last man to follow where they were going. By the end she was wrecked and needless to say won't be riding with them again or joining the club.

Possibly, over estimated her abilities?
A racing club will always have a pretty hard fast group but surprised that another road group wasnt also available.
Back to fitness, keeping up with a focussed road team (and if this is the club I think you are referring to) they are pretty handy in road racing. .. and it isnt ridden like a sportive.. hard sections will be attacked for training and this is where the gaps open up.
Explain it is down to experience but if she wants to transition from running and sportives the the fitness gap has been explained.
I know it feels sometimes unfair when you have to struggle to keep up but we all have to be realistic and not put blame where it dont apply..

I agree.

I ride with two collectives, neither of which require a membership fee.

One of them has a very fast Saturday ride which is exactly as you describe. I've only ridden with them twice on a Saturday (usually do it on a Thursday) and there are a few points where it gets very competitive. I was warned when I started the ride that this would happen and it was therefore up to me whether I was up to the task. Sadly I'm not very good with surges which is why I didn't ride more with them on a Saturday - next year, with some training on shorter 4-8 minute intervals I hope/expect this to change.

The other collective regularly gets large numbers and they have many groups riding out each Saturday morning. Each with a dedicated speed and published course. These offer a no drop policy and people tend to pick their groups quite well based on ability.

KnightOfTheLongTights

Slowbike wrote:

Do you guys always do the same route?

Don't think I've ever done the same route twice with our club - makes for an interesting ride - we don't intentionally drop riders either, but if someone really isn't keeping pace then they may be invited to drop off ...

But then our rides aren't chaingang type rides, these are just quick social rides....

yes unfortunately - and it's really not a very good one - might join a different club next year

I think all the better-known London clubs are suffering from large numbers and the difficulties in separating and sporting them into manageable groups of similar ability / expectations.
My previous club, there were some great long rides out into the Kent hills on a Saturday morning but sometimes in the summer there were 20-odd riders in one group, which is just madness from every point of view. Not least when you have a massive disparity in ability and are waiting at practically every junction.
I used to think it would sort itself out into (at least) a couple of smaller groups which would have made sense for everyone - but it never did - it needed someone to take charge but as a relatively new member I did not want to tread on toes.
After I'd been with them a year or so I suggested it needed splitting into a more social and a more pacey group - and maybe even three in the summer - and even though most people agreed there was a sort of inertia against change...

whoof

Matthewfalle wrote:

If you can't make regular rides with a club (say due to shift patterns or travelling away a lot) are you still expected to join even if you'll only ride with them every couple of months/once a month?

Yes

briantrumpet

Matthewfalle wrote:

If you can't make regular rides with a club (say due to shift patterns or travelling away a lot) are you still expected to join even if you'll only ride with them every couple of months/once a month?

Well, I reckoned even if I did only a few rides a year, the £12 membership fee was worth it just for that and having a larger pool of potential mates to ride with and the social side of being a club member. I can go three months with not being able to do a club run, but I get involved with committee & Go-Ride stuff, ride when I can etc. All for £12. It's a bargain, even if I don't ride often.

cougie

Blimey. I've never heard of a club doing the same run all of the time.
Is that a new club ?

carl69

Our club has 5 different ride groups out on a Sunday of varying distances and speeds. Membership is 20 pounds P/A but with the various club discounts in local retailers, restaurants etc that soon pays for itself. We have no problem with non members riding with us but we ask them to put a quid in the tea fund to help with the cost of after ride refreshments at the club house. Like all clubs we have had problems with riders turning up for the first time and over estimating how quick they can go and struggling to hold on to the fast group but to be fair one of us will always drop back to ensure they,re not left alone. We,ve found that most will keep coming and tell us they,ll try and hold on a little longer each week and when they do blow are quite happy to finish the ride on their own. We,ve all been off the back at times so it's either put in the effort to get quicker or ride with one of the other groups at a steadier pace. As a club we made a conscious effort to be inclusive and offer rides for everyone and it seems to be working as we get good turnouts every weekend. At the end of the day it's about people enjoying being on their bikes be that a 10 mile social ride to a cafe or take a deep breath and hang on this is going to hurt smashfest.

slowbike

cougie wrote:

Blimey. I've never heard of a club doing the same run all of the time.

There's one around here who do the same course and stop at the same coffee shop week in week out ... would drive me insane, but they're quite a big club and seem to have plenty of riders so it suits some.

Last night, for the first time, we covered 80% of the same ride as we've done previously ... but we did have limited options once we'd got out to the far end...

cougie

A lot of the benefit of a club is that you learn all sorts of different routes. We've OAPs in the club who know every lane for a hundred miles so its rare to ride the same route twice. Its great to go out with them and learn off their experience.

KnightOfTheLongTights

cougie wrote:

A lot of the benefit of a club is that you learn all sorts of different routes. We've OAPs in the club who know every lane for a hundred miles so its rare to ride the same route twice. Its great to go out with them and learn off their experience.

well I'd agree cougie, it is a bit odd. I think the idea is that several groups can go out and if you get dropped you can just fall back to the group behind.
Problem is, it's not a great route, lot of dual carriageway, lot of lights. And they stop at a caff too despite the fact it's only a 2hr30min ride!?

cougie

Is it just a collection of new cyclists ? Maybe they don't know any better ? If its just a 2.5 hour ride - I don't see why you'd have so many groups doing it ?

Clubs usually do three or so different rides but on different routes, speeds and lengths.