New Bike - Rear Wheel Buckled After 3 Days (Advice)

Hunter84

Hi, I'm new here and new to cycling. I'm 30, and decided to take part in my work's Cycle 2 Work scheme to save me money on my bus pass and for cardio to help me lose weight. I am a heavy rider and the Halfords salesman warned me to take it easy on the bike. I had to go to Halfords as part of the Cycle 2 Work scheme. I bought a Carrera Vengeance for £320 - http://www.halfords.com/cycling/bikes/m ... -bike-2015

My work is 4 miles away from my house so about 8 miles a day cycling. The way I go is all flat with 2 slight inclines along the way. There's a couple of pot holes I made sure to avoid and generally took it as easy as I could with the bike. First 3 days went fine but I did notice a weird noise on the 3rd day but wasn't sure what it was. On the 4th day halfway to work I heard a loud whirring noise and the bike felt unsteady. I got off and inspected the wheels to which I noticed the back wheel was loose and moving all over the place. It was rubbing against the frame of the bike as I was cycling which was causing the noise. I got picked up by a work colleague who was passing by.

I took it in to Halfords and the guy that sold me the bike basically said I told you so. He said the back wheel was buckled and that this would keep happening. A lot of the spokes were loose and 2 had come away. I had previously taken the service plan and he said he wouldn't charge me for the tyre this time but would every time it happened in the future, which would be £50-£100 he said. I can't afford that every week.

Anyway, I'm getting it back this week. Do you think I'm too heavy to cycle and should forget about it? or do you think the rear wheel was either not put together properly or faulty? It's a £320 bike and should surely hold up better than this. Would it be worth getting a reliable local bike shop to look it over after Halfords return my bike?

Sorry for being long winded but not experienced with bikes and looking for some honest advice.

Thanks.

ugo.santalucia

Unfortunately in that price range it is difficult to buy quality. However, as a consumer you have a number of rights and one of them is to have a bike that is fit for purpose, no matter how cheap it is... it is the LAW.

The shop mechanic can joke and try to be funny, but ultimately he has agreed to a sale and the bike has to comply with the law. If he doesn't fix the problem you can

1) Pretend to have a replacement like for like

2) pretend to have the bike fixed so that it is fit for purpose (even if that requires upgrading parts free of charge)

3) Pretend a full refund for your purchase as it is not fit for purpose.

It's not a matter of 300 quid, they have to stop selling crap cheap that does not comply with the basic intended use.

The most important thing to remember is that it is not your fault... they sold you a rat, your money was good, they have to do something about it

Guernsey Donkey

How heavy is heavy?

slowbike

I'd take it back as not fit for purpose. I have a Cube 29er that cost not much more than yours:

It's a mountain bike - it should take a huge amount of punishment. My mountain bike is getting "hammered" at speed off road - ok I'm not heavy, but I'm throwing mine around off road, the impacts should be more than yours on the road. You'd have to be overly heavy to damage 32 spoke mountain bike wheels.

Whatever you do - don't give up on the whole thing - you can ride - Google "30 stone cyclist" if you want some more inspiration. It's just a matter of having the right kit. If your C2W scheme allows you - go to an LBS and ask their advice, you're more likely to get some good advice from people who know what their doing rather than some Oik in Halfrords.

Hunter84

Guernsey Donkey wrote:

How heavy is heavy?

Very heavy. I'm 6 foot 3 and 27 stone, I was 30 stone (Not proud of that and can't believe I got that high). I've lost 3 stone in 3 months just by eating healthy but wanted to exercise as well and thought cycling would be a good, fun way to burn calories and save me money as well. Initially I feared I would be too heavy for a bike but then I read this: http://39stonecyclist.com/am-i-too-heavy-for-a-bike/

and thought if he can do it weighing more than me then so can I. However with this wheel buckling already, my confidence in being able to do this has been shaken.

pinarellokid

Cheap wheel won't do by all accounts. If you are serious, buy a better wheel and stay focussed

kingstonian

Hunter84 wrote:

Guernsey Donkey wrote:

How heavy is heavy?

Very heavy. I'm 6 foot 3 and 27 stone, I was 30 stone (Not proud of that and can't believe I got that high). I've lost 3 stone in 3 months just by eating healthy but wanted to exercise as well and thought cycling would be a good, fun way to burn calories and save me money as well. Initially I feared I would be too heavy for a bike but then I read this: http://39stonecyclist.com/am-i-too-heavy-for-a-bike/

and thought if he can do it weighing more than me then so can I. However with this wheel buckling already, my confidence in being able to do this has been shaken.

Mate, well done for shifting 10% of your body weight so quickly. That is a great effort, keep it up.

nochekmate

Come on Ugo, show your skills - what can you do for him that might help and at what budget? If the OP's budget is tight, I'll chip the first £10 in to help out - get another 20 offers or so like that and he could be sorted.

Well worth it to see somebody trying to bring about a change in their life and I've bought and sold many parts on this forum so would be more than happy to help somebody out.

CiB

Where on earth does he find £50 - £100 for a tyre? Even if that's for a wheel true plus a new tyre (why though?) that's one enormous rip off.

If it does ruin a tyre just by rubbing on the frame something's not quite right, and truing a wheel is either a 15 minute job in a shop or one of the most satisfying things you can do yourself. Buy a spoke key, spend 10 minutes on Youtube to get the idea if you need to, and you have a lifetime of free wheel-truing ahead of you.

£100 though. Strewth...

Initialised

Some wheels have a maximum rider weight, typically 90-120kg. If this was not the case for the wheels on your bike then they should cope.

Are you wrecking the wheels by hitting them off kerbs and potholes?
Are your tyres simply under inflated (a common problem on new bikes)?
Seems the most likely way to wreck a brand new wheel on a brand new bike.

If so then when you hit a step change like a kerb or pothole the rim is taking some of the shock and deforming, unlike the tyre it can't bend back into shape. Check by sitting on the bike with your weight on the rear wheel, roll backwards into a kerb, does the tyre prevent the rim hitting the corner? If not you need more air in the tyres.

You are running 2.1" tyres, for my weight I'd normally run these at 30/40 PSI (Front/Rear) but for your weight you should be running closer to 60/80 PSI. Yes it's fine to go over recommended pressures (65 PSI) for yours.

You front shock should also be adjusted for the correct sag:

http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/article/h ... deo-32460/
20%-30% is normal for trail riding but for urban riding you could go as low as 15% sag.

So when you take it back into the shop ask them to set up the fork correctly, replace or repair the wheel, replace the tyre and pump the tyres up to the point where you can't make the rim hit the kerb, they'll have a kerb conveniently located outside the shop for you to test against.

larkim

I know your weight is definitely "heavy", but I'm imagining that you are not haring along at breakneck speed just yet. So hitting an urban pothole on a MTB shouldn't cause the wheel to buckle.

It could be that you were just unlucky - lost a spoke on the 3rd day, didn't notice, and then did extra damage on the 4th day.

diy

Whatever you do, don't start going off "pretending" to do things to get a result, fraud would be the most stupidist of stupid things to do and in any case I don't think it will change anything. It sounds to me that the situation regarding your consumer rights is quite complex. On the one hand you said sell me a bike that I can ride, on the other the sales person said this bike wont suit you, but you can give it a go.

At any point did they tell you the max rider weight was 160kg?

I think I'd attempt to reject the bike as not fit for purpose. But you are probably on slightly shaky ground given the published limits of the product and the advice of the rep. The second problem is you have a 650b (27.5" wheelset) so finding some cheap heavy duty wheels that could replace the current set is not going to be easy.

There are plenty that will take your weight as AM and down hill riders tend to be heavy and their bikes are built to take big jumps. Try rejecting the bike and then post in the MTB section to get some "heavy rider" recommendations.

One advantage you do have is, if you don't get anywhere with the shop you can take it up with the C2W scheme as ultimately they supplied you.

larkim

On a technicality, surely under C2W the bike has been sold to his employer (or a C2W scheme body), not him, he only rents it under a finance lease?

poacher13

Hunter84 wrote:

Guernsey Donkey wrote:

How heavy is heavy?

Very heavy. I'm 6 foot 3 and 27 stone, I was 30 stone (Not proud of that and can't believe I got that high). I've lost 3 stone in 3 months just by eating healthy but wanted to exercise as well and thought cycling would be a good, fun way to burn calories and save me money as well. Initially I feared I would be too heavy for a bike but then I read this: http://39stonecyclist.com/am-i-too-heavy-for-a-bike/

and thought if he can do it weighing more than me then so can I. However with this wheel buckling already, my confidence in being able to do this has been shaken.

Dont be shaken by this mate, your an inspirational roll model and a shining example of what a strong minded person can do when they want to. You have done soooo well to loose the weight you've lost.
Please dont give in and dont take any 5hite from Halfords, they are at fault not you!

Bobbinogs

poacher13 wrote:

Hunter84 wrote:

Guernsey Donkey wrote:

How heavy is heavy?

Very heavy. I'm 6 foot 3 and 27 stone, I was 30 stone (Not proud of that and can't believe I got that high). I've lost 3 stone in 3 months just by eating healthy but wanted to exercise as well and thought cycling would be a good, fun way to burn calories and save me money as well. Initially I feared I would be too heavy for a bike but then I read this: http://39stonecyclist.com/am-i-too-heavy-for-a-bike/

and thought if he can do it weighing more than me then so can I. However with this wheel buckling already, my confidence in being able to do this has been shaken.

Dont be shaken by this mate, your an inspirational [role] model and a shining example of what a strong minded person can do when they want to. You have done soooo well to loose the weight you've lost.
Please dont give in and dont take any 5hite from Halfords, they are at fault not you!

I am not sure I would use the term 'Role model'. I think 'bloke who has realised that he needs to take some personal responsibility for his life and do something about it' is probably more apt.

Anyway, OP, well done on starting the journey. 30 stone on a set of cheap factory built wheels is never going to work. Invest in some handbuilts and keep going throughout the winter. Set yourself some target weights and then reward yourself when you hit them, like a trip to a London show or some other memorable event. Ultimately, you are worth it!

ugo.santalucia

nochekmate wrote:

Come on Ugo, show your skills - what can you do for him that might help and at what budget? If the OP's budget is tight, I'll chip the first £10 in to help out - get another 20 offers or so like that and he could be sorted.

Well worth it to see somebody trying to bring about a change in their life and I've bought and sold many parts on this forum so would be more than happy to help somebody out.

I have built wheels for heavy guys and they stay true. The problems he is experiencing are down to a bad build with low tension. Of course at 27 stones the spokes will not last that long, but they should still do 2-3000 miles if properly tensioned
No matter how heavy the OP is... it is responsability of the shop to sell an adequate bike or refuse a sale if they feel they have nothing adequate to offer. Selling a bike knowing it will fail it's bad business. There is no clause in the Consumer's act that prevent heavier guys to have the same rights

navrig2

Great result losing 3st already. Keep up the good work.

Assuming that you went to the shop when you chose and collected the bike then I would be inclined to ask for a full refund on the basis that Halfords have not fully advised you on the limitations of the bike/wheels they sold you. That would put you back to the start. You would then need to find a set of wheels which will cope with your weight but you may need to accept that you may have to carry out or pay for more regular maintenance to keep the wheels true and safe.

Halfords may not be the best for supplying soemthing more appropriate so it is also worth checking out alternatiove shops - plenty take Halfords C2W vouchers however I would recommend that you make it clear you need strong wheels if you go elsewhere.

And, finally, as suggested elsewhere avoid kerbs and potholes.

Let us know how you get on.

MichaelW

"Very heavy. I'm 6 foot 3 and 27 stone"

I would always recommend the max no of spokes for a "clyde" rider like yourself.
36 spokes is the most common max you can find. Anything more is specialist.

I would seriously question the wisdom of putting a 6'3" commuter onto 27.5" wheels. This is a new* standard for MTB and there are NO commuter tyres available in the shops (only mail order). Cheap, commuter rims are not available in 27.5
I can think of no reason to avoid 29"/700c , which have been std for decades, and no reason to prefer 27.5" for a tall rider.
Many bike shops advise small riders to use 29" because it is "faster"
Insanity rules.


*27.5 is the same as 650b, an old French size used by boutique touring-bike custom-builders in the USA. Road-tyres are a specialist item from a few, select US bike shops.

Hunter84

Thanks to everyone that has replied, I won't quote everyone as it would take up too much space but I'll try and reply to all the points raised.

I'm not sure how much new wheels cost but the guy in Halfords said they would do this one under warranty but if it happens again it would be £50-£100 for a new one. The labour is covered under the service plan I took out. After hearing a lot of negative stories on bike forums about Halfords I'm less enthusiastic about trusting them than I was before.

Regarding the bike not being fit for purpose. The sales guy in Halfords originally picked out the Carrera Vengeance as he said it should take my weight. As embarrassed as I was I was completely up front about how much I weighed. He said the bikes were only tested on people up to 19 stone. We ordered that bike but then he phoned me 2 days later and recommended the Voodoo Hoodoo bike. He said the wheels were smaller and the bike would be better equipped to take my weight. Unfortunately that one was £400. My C2W voucher was for £400 but I needed to get a lock, lights and helmet for the £400 as I didn't have the money to add to it. After this we agreed on the Vengeance but he said I would have to take it easy and he said he tightened the spokes as much as he could.

As for if I hit kerbs or potholes. I made a point of avoiding potholes as best I could. Anytime I had to go up a kerb I stopped and lifted the bike on the kerb. Half of my journey is done on newly built cycle paths and the rest on road. When I got to speed bumps I took my bum off the seat and went over slowly. At most points I was going quite slowly, regularly overtaken by other cyclists. This was the first cycling I had done in maybe 14 years so was just getting adjusted to it when the wheel buckled. First 2 days were tough on my ass and thighs but by Wednesday I was starting to really enjoy it.

Unfortunately with the C2W scheme my employer went with, I was told I had to go to Halfords. So if I rejected this bike I would still have to get one from Halfords.

I did some looking online and there's a bike shop called The Bicycle Works (Edinburgh) and has great reviews from people. I was thinking about taking my bike there when I get it back and having them check it over. Do you guys think that would be a good idea? I get my bike back tomorrow from Halfords.

Apologies for the essay I just wrote but wanted to hit most of the points made in the thread.

slowbike

Don't apologise! There's no need ... at least we have a good idea of the issues you're facing - others would've posted
"My back wheel broke. now what do I do?" and 5 pages later we'd learn that they'd thrown it off a bridge which is why it broke in the first place ...

I can see your dilemma - you wanted a bike, but didn't have the cash - C2W scheme is good for getting you a bike on easy repayment plan - unfortunately I believe some do trap you into particular shops. Halfords can be good or can be bad - it really depends on the people who work there.
I'm alarmed at the "he said he tightened the spokes as much as he could" - I'm not a wheel builder, but I do know a bit about engineering and "as much as he could" could be technical - ie he checked the build with a tensioner etc or it could be completely by feel without any specialist knowledge. The former should be as good as you can get, the later could lead to disaster and a broken wheel without it being your fault.

I think you're going to have to accept that you're going to go through wheels far more quickly than the average rider - well, until you've dropped the weight that is. So I would think it worth while having a chat with a local reputable wheel builder and see if they would at least check over your new/rebuilt wheel and then start making plans for saving for a better wheel. You might also find out if there's anything you can do to check your wheels over before the spokes go ping...

So next question is "where abouts are you?" just general locality - someone may know a reputable local wheel builder for you.

navrig2

Hunter84 wrote:

I did some looking online and there's a bike shop called The Bicycle Works (Edinburgh) and has great reviews from people. I was thinking about taking my bike there when I get it back and having them check it over. Do you guys think that would be a good idea? I get my bike back tomorrow from Halfords.

Apologies for the essay I just wrote but wanted to hit most of the points made in the thread.

As Slowy says don't apologise.

I had problems with my rear wheel after damaging the spokes and then one breaking. I had a single repair carried out (won't say where as subsequent issues may not be their fault) and just afterwards had a major failure of the rear wheel/chain and derailleur. I took the wheel to The Bicycle Works for a rebuild and it has been fine ever since. The rebuild cost about £45 (new spokes basically),

Hunter84

I've got no wheel or bike expertise at all but I think he may built the wheel incorrectly. I'm hoping he has because although I know I'm going to go through wheels faster than most people, I can't afford to get a new one weekly. When he brought the bike out, he went to write it up at the till, he asked this other guy to check over the bike to make sure it was ok and he noticed the fork was put on backwards. This meant nothing to me as I had no idea what they were talking about but the original guy that set it up said it was a "rookie" mistake.

I live in Edinburgh, Scotland. The bike shop I was looking at was The bicycle Works in Marchmont, Edinburgh. If someone had a better recommendation of shop I would go there. Do you guys know what kind of price range I would be looking at to get a more durable set of wheels if I was to go down that route?

navrig2

http://www.thebicycleworks.co.uk/

They are fine.

BrandonA

nochekmate wrote:

Come on Ugo, show your skills - what can you do for him that might help and at what budget? If the OP's budget is tight, I'll chip the first £10 in to help out - get another 20 offers or so like that and he could be sorted.

Well worth it to see somebody trying to bring about a change in their life and I've bought and sold many parts on this forum so would be more than happy to help somebody out.

I'd not turn down £10 if you're offering it.

Ugo is correct. I bought an £1,800 winter bike and the wheels on it are rubbish. You can feel them buckle when you throw down the power. I can only imagine what wheels you get on a £300 bike. Like everything in life, you get what you pay for.

diy

I must admit I was tempted to think that the helpful mechanic had made things worse by attempting to increase the tension in the wheels. However, you can't go getting the bike fixed by someone else. You either attempt to reject the bike as not according to your specific requirements which you made clear or persist with getting a remedy. If you accept the new wheel it doesn't change any right you had to reject the bike later.

I don't think a claim under the Sec 14, Sale of Goods Act 1979 that this bike is not fit for purpose etc. would succeed. The shop would counter that the weight limit on the bike was discussed.

There is a little confusion in this thread about the definitions in the Sale of Goods Act. Section 14, its quite specific: fitness for all the purposes for which goods of the kind in question are commonly supplied does not mean fit for the purpose the buyer specified. Specific purposes need to be agreed between buyer and seller and there isn't evidence that the contract was modified to make the seller responsible for supplying a bike suitable for the buyers weight.

navrig2

diy wrote:

There is a little confusion in this thread about the definitions in the Sale of Goods Act. Section 14, its quite specific: fitness for all the purposes for which goods of the kind in question are commonly supplied does not mean fit for the purpose the buyer specified. Specific purposes need to be agreed between buyer and seller and there isn't evidence that the contract was modified to make the seller responsible for supplying a bike suitable for the buyers weight.

Agreed however unless the shop specifically said that his weight would overstress the wheel resulting in increased maintenance and increased risk of breakages then they would be deemed to have accepted a fit for purpose sale.

In all reality they should have suggested a more suitable wheelset as part of the deal.

Hunter84

I was supposed to get the bike back today, it went in on Thursday lunch time. I phoned about 30 mins ago just to make sure it was ready but the same guy I've been dealing with all along said they still don't have the new wheel in yet, didn't know how long it would take and said they would call me when it's ready. So still waiting.

nochekmate

BrandonA wrote:

I'd not turn down £10 if you're offering it.

Ugo is correct. I bought an £1,800 winter bike and the wheels on it are rubbish. You can feel them buckle when you throw down the power. I can only imagine what wheels you get on a £300 bike. Like everything in life, you get what you pay for.

My offer was a genuine offer to an individual who I see as trying to make a positive impact on his life not to all and sundry

Oh and by the way, you must have some real power if you can feel the wheels 'buckle when you throw down the power'.

Initialised

There should be no need to stop and lift the bike up the kerb, if the tyre pressure and fork are set up correctly for the rider you can ride MTB wheels up and down stairs. Hell, I'll sometimes ride down stairs on my road bike.

So when you go and pick up the bike get them to set the rear wheel to 80 PSI, the front to 65 PSI and the fork to 15% sag.

Lifting off the saddle over rough ground and bumps gives you more control and will reduce damage to the rear wheel so keep that up.

diy

@Initialised 80psi ?? you'll be lucky to get it out the shop before it blows.

Few MTB tyres will take that and plenty of wheels have limits of half that. The max PSI on my stans flows is 40PSI and they have been bomb proof.

You did get that the OP is 171kg?

chopchopchop

I've had issues with my rear wheel and had it replaced and upgraded by halford FOC so push them as they have to do it.

I solved my problem by taking my wheel to a wheel builder and paid £30 to get it tensioned correctly. That was the end of my wheel ordeal.