Dream Build: Santa Cruz Nomad C 650b

benpinnick

The weight is accurate (well enough to not quibble). There's not much weight to shave off this without compromising the 'style' of the bike.

Ber Nard

Hob Nob wrote:

Seems very light for the build, i'll have to weigh my wife's again, as it's got a fair few lighter parts, but comes out a fair bit heavier.

Or borrow your scales

BloggingFit wrote:

Weight came in at 27.6 lbs without pedals

Could that have something to do with it?

Hob Nob

No, I noticed the no pedals point.

Taking pedals out of the equation, my wife's, as a lighter (not compromised) build is still well over a pound heavier. My Reign, which is also a lighter build, and a lighter frame is also heavier. Both weighed on different Park scales.

I also have no idea how the wheels are that light. She has a set of the bare 30mm rims, which are lighter, also built onto 240's with CX Rays & Alu nipples, yet they are 1600g.

Real world sub 28lb Nomads are very rare beasts. Like I said, maybe if should try some different scales, that would be a nice upgrade

But hey, who's counting!

benpinnick

Your wife's wheels are too heavy, seriously. Check out the dtswiss calculator, use dt revs for a comparable weight to cx Rays (not that I used cx Rays but they are roughly the same weight). A set of our TR30 rims built with DT Comps and brass nips would still be under 1600g. I can't imagine LBs _should_ be any heavier than that. Carbon rims can vary a lot, sounds like you got some heavy ones I'm afraid.

Aside from the that I can't see why a 27x build nomad is hard to do. The frame is 6.5 inc shock, which is very competitive, every component on blogging fit's bike is as light or lighter than all but the top end xc equipment, so it's really on the reverb, tyres and forks that would swing it, and the 36s surprised me with a weigh in at 2kg cut, so not exactly beasties. From this build to an xc race whippet you've really only got 1lb in the forks, 1 in the tyres and 1 in the frame, making it a 24.xlb xc bike, which is more than reasonable expectation.

This one http://enduro-mtb.com/en/first-ride-santa-cruz-nomad-carbon-2015/ is listed as 28.4 and its a fair bit heavier built than bloggingfit's

BloggingFit

Some more pics as the sun was out...

BloggingFit

Hob Nob wrote:

No, I noticed the no pedals point.

Taking pedals out of the equation, my wife's, as a lighter (not compromised) build is still well over a pound heavier. My Reign, which is also a lighter build, and a lighter frame is also heavier. Both weighed on different Park scales.

I also have no idea how the wheels are that light. She has a set of the bare 30mm rims, which are lighter, also built onto 240's with CX Rays & Alu nipples, yet they are 1600g.

Real world sub 28lb Nomads are very rare beasts. Like I said, maybe if should try some different scales, that would be a nice upgrade

But hey, who's counting!

I was giving the final weight some thought while the build was going on and it isn't far away from what I imagined compared to my other builds. I have two other Carbon wheel builds on heavier hubs with one set at 1600g with DT350 centre lock and the other at 1640g with Hope Pro 2 6 bolt so to me this Wheel set weight is accurate.

My Remedy Carbon build is 2 lbs lighter on different scales. It has a Pike which is lighter around 1/2 lb lighter than the 36 and Bontrager XR3 tyres which are around 3/4 lb lighter for the pair over the Minions. It has a reverb, XT groupset and component weights won't be too different so the rest is in the frame.

Based on all this to me the weight is pretty accurate and feels it just by picking it up and a quick pedal up and down the road while bedding in brakes. I'm sure sets of scales can be out by 1/2 depending on calibration and where on the frame you weigh from so having two sets at opposite ends of the spectrum then you would see a 1/2 lb difference so could be in the scales or the bike could just be that light.

The wheels and fork were lighter than expected, the Bontrager Carbon saddles I use are ridiculously light and the new SIXC cranks are also very light so there is potentially up 3/4 lbs saved over perceived weight right here.

Herdwick

BloggingFit wrote:

I was giving the final weight some thought

From my experience chubbies ride better... 8)

A fabulous built there BloggingFit !!!

can you share the overall cost of it?
just curious

BloggingFit

Herdwick wrote:

BloggingFit wrote:

I was giving the final weight some thought

From my experience chubbies ride better... 8)

A fabulous built there BloggingFit !!!

can you share the overall cost of it?
just curious

I guess close to £5,500 in the end. Saved a bit by sourcing bits between the US and CRC. The rims were Chinese.

BloggingFit

@lexD wrote:

Stunning build, love the wheels how were they done?

Custom sprayed in the blue with the magenta stickers added on top by the rim supplier. I had to match off a Pantone chart which was fun, especially as there wasn't an exact match as I suspect Santa Cruz went with a mix of shades but I got within a shade so turned out well.

Goggs-san

Nice bike, sure is a looker. Would love something like this myself.

Just curious. Is this a bike that you would take down the roughest, sketchiest lines in muddy and crap conditions. Reason I ask is ive realy contemplated building a top bike myself. But i no I would find myself riding the bike differently and wimping out, as to not damage or make the bike rough looking.

BloggingFit

Goggs-san wrote:

Nice bike, sure is a looker. Would love something like this myself.

Just curious. Is this a bike that you would take down the roughest, sketchiest lines in muddy and crap conditions. Reason I ask is ive realy contemplated building a top bike myself. But i no I would find myself riding the bike differently and wimping out, as to not damage or make the bike rough looking.

I'd keep it away from serious slop as it's unnecessary wear and tear on the moving parts but average mud and everything else is fair game. Would be a waste of good engineering otherwise.

Dick Scruttock

Have you ridden it yet? Pretty long aren't they!

Looks good, and definitely a change from the norm!

BloggingFit

Rick Draper wrote:

Have you ridden it yet? Pretty long aren't they!

Looks good, and definitely a change from the norm!

Not yet as this week has conspired against me after initially having some riding time planned but should be a maiden voyage tomorrow despite chucking it down the past few days.

Doesn't feel too dissimilar to my Remedy as this is also long and has a similar low speed front end flop due to the longer Pike installed. Will be interesting to see how differently they pedal as the back ends feel pretty different just from bouncing on them.

BloggingFit

Got around to putting the bike on my scales and used my other bikes as a point of reference.

Weights with pedals:
Nomad - 28lbs
Bird - 25.4lbs
Remedy - 25.4lbs

So the first weigh in for the Nomad was pretty much on the money. The weight of the Remedy always impresses me for a 150mm/140mm travel bike.

BloggingFit

Finally got a first ride in today and got some mud on the bike although not much at this stage early of the ride.



A friend has also just finished his Mega AM build so was also a first ride out for him as well.



The Nomad is a absolute blast to ride downhill and I found it climbed very well overall compared to my other bikes. The only drawback I can see is on faster fire road type sections but that you would expect. On tech style climbs it felt just as good as the others which is impressive. Rode some slow and twisty sections as this is meant to cause some issue but didn't find this to be the case at all. We then hit one of the short downhill trails we are looking to develop this year and cut a few lines into it while things are soft. This was great funnelling how far you can crank the bike over before starting to slide out. Overall it was a really fun bike to ride.

For me the biggest unknown factor was how the Fox 36 would perform and I am please to say it is an excellent fork to use. Plenty of small bump compliance, smooth through it's travel, doesn't blow through easily. Very unlike recent incarnation of Fox forks. Set up wise I went with around 25% sag but I feel I need to reduce back down towards 20% as per Fox recommendation. There were a couple of sections where I used bit more travel than I should and I'd like it to sit a little higher up in general. Damper settings felt ok to me so I will start off with air pressure first before playing with HSC.

The debonair shock felt good for me and running at 30% sag seems like the right place to be at the moment but will see once the fork is adjusted. Back end felt lively which is how I like things and I didn't run into any issues of getting weight over front like some have reported.

The only issue I have now is that it has made me think as to whether I need my Remedy as well. Once the trails start to dry out and get faster I shall see how the Nomad feels in comparison and take a view.

BloggingFit

Having had a few rides on the Nomad now I thought I would pop up my thoughts on the components that have had less exposure.

XTR Rear Shifter & Transmission
Quality is as good as you would expect from a flagship range with fantastic attention to detail and ultra smooth and light shifting in some crap conditions. A big step up from XT.

XTR Trail Brakes
Again excellent quality and detail as per the transmission side and comparing them alongside a set of friend's Saints we both agreed very little performance difference. I'd imagine the Saints would outperform once speeds start to get silly. The level feels really good to use with plenty of modulation.

Fox 36 Fork
A bit of a risk given the recent track record of Fox although the 36 was always less of an issue and was for me the best of the bunch overall for a 170mm option. The fork feels fantastic to the point where you forget it's really there which for me is a good thing. Very similar to a Pike but leaves the impression of being that bit more hardcore and having more in reserve. Plenty of small bump compliance without blowing through it's travel and seems to work well with the Nomad.

LB 35mm Rims
No grip issues with the width of these rims on the Minions so far and I have been happily cranking the over a lot to see where the limit is. I do like running low pressures so this is probably helping. The front wheel also doesn't seem to ever get dirty.

njee20

The Nomad weight seems plausible, but I'm mildly dubious of the Remedy...

lawman

holy seatpost batman!! With that much post showing how come you didn't step up to a bigger frame size? You could probably get away with at least a large, possibly even an xl and cut the stem back a bit?

njee20

I'm inclined to agree, looks slightly daft!

BloggingFit

njee20 wrote:

The Nomad weight seems plausible, but I'm mildly dubious of the Remedy...

Is a little surprising but on the same set of scales numerous times. Stock weight is 28.5lbs IIRC with swapping out the stock wheelset, fork and 1x10 saving a big chunk. Lifting by hand it does feel pretty light.

BloggingFit

lawman wrote:

holy seatpost batman!! With that much post showing how come you didn't step up to a bigger frame size? You could probably get away with at least a large, possibly even an xl and cut the stem back a bit?

Reach is perfect for me, I just have long legs relative to the rest of me. Probably could have got away with a large and a 35mm stem but like the feel of the medium plus the reach and wheelbase measurements just made sense. Compared to my Remedy a large would have been a bit longer and for me that's on the reach limit. Spend more time with the post down on it anyway.

Dick Scruttock

Do you run 150mm or a 125mm reverb?

BloggingFit

Rick Draper wrote:

Do you run 150mm or a 125mm reverb?

125mm drop.

BloggingFit

Took the bike out to Swinley this morning to check out if the jump gulley had dried out enough to get some runs in as I haven't gotten the bike airborne over purpose built terrain yet, just drops and natural features on trail. For a bigger bike it's pretty easy to handle and I always understood the VPP bikes were always good for getting airborne. Very much drama free and far less sensitive than my Remedy.

Rode through the blue trails and it's pretty evident that the bike is not suited to this kind of riding. It got through ok but was just a little hard work energy wise on the flatter stuff and it won't be something I'll get into the habit of riding. Once I got into the red downhill runs were the gradient was more severe both up and down things got better again. Have had to make some changes to my riding through turns where you need to activate more hip movement to get the bike around quicker but this is a good habit to get into and noticed an immediate difference in speed employing this technique more.

Going to look to progress more with bigger and faster drops and to properly manual this bike.

njee20

I'd have thought it would be a slog anywhere at Swinley!

BloggingFit

njee20 wrote:

I'd have thought it would be a slog anywhere at Swinley!

The steeper and looser parts I find ok, so around Jobber Hill and up K2. Labyrinth and Helter Skelter Hill I also find ok with it. It's more where you get sharp gradient changes in the climb and have to adjust cadence and/or power accordingly that the longer travel shows up. The short climb up Red 25 after the hairpin is a good example.

BloggingFit

Cracking day for riding today and got in the first pretty dry day of the year so far and able to start to see what the Nomad can do. Decided to experiment with the rear end after reading some positive reviews to running 35% - 40% sag in the shock. Currently at around 30% so I adjusted to around 35%, adjusted rebound 1 click slower and took it out to see how it felt around some of my favourite trails on MOD land where there is a good mix of rocky descents, technical and rooty single track, natural jumps and compressions.



A really positive change for the bike as per the reports by other riders. Even better going down and over jumps and still gives a decent pedal platform for going uphill. Back end feels great and I'm having no issue with the DebonAir shock even though I was half expecting to dislike it and swap it out pretty quickly.

Really enjoy riding this bike especially as things are drying out now. Took my Remedy out on Friday and was left somewhat underwhelmed by it - enough to really consider selling given how well the Nomad rides. This this was on trails I hadn't ridden before however so probably will need to get back on familiar ones before making a final decision.

BloggingFit

Racking up the miles with the Nomad any everything is bedded in and running great so figured it was a good time to post up some thoughts for some of the components.

Fork - started off running the recommended Fox settings with 20% sag as a starting point and I haven't found the need to change them since. If I were asked to describe how they feel then this would be a difficult thing to do. Smooth, controlled, responsive and stiff jump to mind. It's difficult to really describe though as I don't notice them once I'm riding so there isn't one or a combination of things that jump out at me which I think is the ideal. It was probably the one choice I was a bit unsure about but now is the one I'm probably the most happy about making.

Shock - The Debonair Plus seems to have a mixed response from users and I have found it to be adequate enough on the bike. Started off running 4 bands in the positive air chamber with 35% - 37.5% sag and have remained happy with the set up. If I have one complaint it would be that it can blow through travel at the bottom of higher speed compressions but I found shifting body weight slightly forwards at the bottom of the trough helps reduce the effect. I may eventually look into a coil as an option but not till next year.

Brakes - Put simply the best brakes I have used. Really powerful but also with plenty of modulation and feel so there is no on/off issues.

Rear Transmission - Shifts extremely fast and smooth and yet to drop a chain. The only gripe is that the reports of cassette noise by testers is also present but is only noticeable on smooth trails. Once the trail chatter starts any noise is cancelled out. In hindsight knowing the XT 11 Speed was due later to his year I may have considered running an existing XT set up until it becomes available but there is also something great about having XTR on board.

Cockpit - Absolutely love the feel of the SIXC bar and the way it handles trail buzz. Upsweep and angle just feel right and I can't see me running any other bar for the foreseeable future.

Headset - Found the Chris King frustrating for a while with it either feeling loose or too tight. Have finally got it set up right and ended up having to run it slightly tight initially before loosening off to the right point.

The Bike - With this sort of build it's almost impossible not to have high expectations of how it should perform to point where they can be too high and lead to disappointment. Luckily this has not been the case here with the bike impressing more and more with each ride. It descends so well which was expected bit it's more the way it handles every aspect of the trail that impresses, especially climbing where it's as good as any of my other bikes in most situations. Smooth and long drags are slightly harder work but that's to be expected but even then I can't complain for what it is. I happily sold my Remedy before source a replacement because of how well it handles the whole trail.

As a whole package I can't think of anything I would change, nor will I look to in the near future. I will look into a coil shock option next year to add a little more seperation from the Bird Aeris I am due to get as replacement for my Remedy and perhaps a 36t chainring, maybe an oval, to make ratios a little taller as I rarely venture into the 40t sprocket with the current 34t ring.

paul.skibum

BloggingFit wrote:

...and perhaps a 36t chainring, maybe an oval, to make ratios a little taller as I rarely venture into the 40t sprocket with the current 34t ring.

Where do you ride and/or how big are your thighs?! I admittedly live in the coast mountains but I run a 30t and a 42t conversion and find myself often delving into Granny's little bag of tricks for concerted climbs.

BloggingFit

paul.skibum wrote:

BloggingFit wrote:

...and perhaps a 36t chainring, maybe an oval, to make ratios a little taller as I rarely venture into the 40t sprocket with the current 34t ring.

Where do you ride and/or how big are your thighs?! I admittedly live in the coast mountains but I run a 30t and a 42t conversion and find myself often delving into Granny's little bag of tricks for concerted climbs.

Mainly MoD so very much a lot of steep up and down so you get well conditioned for powerful bursts. My Squat is 205kg for reps which helps from playing rugby!