Crash with motorist - I'm not yet bike-insured

ChrisB200SX

So I'm now waiting for a callback from the Legal advisors, because when I phoned for advice they took my details for a Personal Injury claim, passed me over to the bike claims department and then I got cut-off :roll:

I realised after the call that they didn't take details of where the incident happened, who the driver was or what car was involved... not sure how the claim was going to progress without those details?!

Now sat by the phone waiting to find out how I go about actually making a claim and getting the bike properly inspected... they'll probably call me back on Monday when I'm busy at work and have zero phone signal

ChrisB200SX

...and I'm back to square one! :x

Legal advice is to get an independent report on the bike for repairs/replacement... and get quotes from 3 places. Given that Evans and my local bike shop have been entirely unhelpful I'm not feeling confident that I'm going to get anywhere with this

I can't help feeling that if I'd have been in a car this would all have been resolved ages ago :roll:

Bozman

I'm sure you'll be able to find three independant bike shops and just go from there.

Dizeee

OP - I was in the exact same position as you when I got knocked off in May at a roundabout and having been going through this process ever since I can offer you a whole world of advice and information. My matter is STILL not resolved.

Without a solicitor, you are wasting your time. You will not be listened to and will be messed about up until the point you get bored and give up which is what they want. Luckily for me I have legal cover through work which covered me for my very minor injury. However my 3.5k bike was written off in the process which is a cost I am still trying to recoup today. Without legal representation the drivers insurance company will just do nothing, as you are no threat to them and they have no incentive to simply pay you out.

My case has been going since May with legal help from Slater and Gordon who are a huge national firm specialising in injury claims. Even with their assistance, I have only just got to the point of them submitting a request for settlement with the threat of a court referral. The drivers insurance have even ignored them and failed to respond to them continuously since this all began. Their status now is same as it was in May - they still have not even updated where they stand re liabilty.

This is how insurance works, they sit on their money until the last possible minute and do anything not to pay out, earning the interest on money that you are entitled to. They follow a very strict model of algorithms and risk and simply will not pay out until the very very very last minute or under threat of a genuine court referral. I did all you did and kept phoning her insurance initially but was sick of being mugged off every single time.

This is my first accident and the experience of claiming for me has been an amazing eve opener - and a terrible, unfair hideous process.

jgsi

I think this is the best reality check to maintain my BC membership although I am going to reduce to Bronze as I dont race BC anymore.
That gives me same legal cover/peace of mind in respect of vehicle driving numpties out to get you on the public highway n'est pas?
Or better with Silver?

Mikey23

Not needed to use it fortunately but im pleased its there. To be riding around on public roads without legal and third party cover is brainless in my humble opinion...

Dizeee

Right,I am back now from my morning ride and am keen to help the OP if required by providing some more info.

Before my experience, I thought the same as most, as long as the car driver is insured and I am being careful it should never be a problem in the event of a claim. I could not have been more wrong. As an uninsured cyclist, you are simply ignored / mugged off until you present some form of representation either via solicitors or initiating your own small claims court hearing ( not recommended as far as I know as payouts are capped much lower ). It is simply through chance and complete luck I have legal cover that I pay for through work who were prepared to take on the case, and ONLY because there was an injury, despite it being minor.

I had a car take me out on a mini roundabout by driving into me. I also had an independant witness and numerous photo's. I started by going through her insurance (large well known firm) and it was just a brick wall from the start, Nothing ever happened. Even to date, 7 months on, her insurance has STILL not responded to my solicitors despite numerous requests for info or updates. They have now been served with notice of settlement which they have 21 days to respond to. Still, I have heard nothing. Strangely, and only at the point I got solicitors involved, I was sent an "interim payment" cheque for 2.5k by her insurance. That was despite them not updating anyone, not resolving any case of liabilty and that was months ago with no update since. That really confuses me.

I have read of people being paid out "that week" after an accident, however, that seems exceptional to me. Insurance companies have long, stringent processes to follow before settling any sort of claim. Interim payments may be made but settlements typically take around 12 - 18 months to sort out once all the investigative processes have taken place.

Bozman

Mikey23 wrote:

Not needed to use it fortunately but im pleased its there. To be riding around on public roads without legal and third party cover is brainless in my humble opinion...

I bet 90+% of cyclists don't have third party cover.
I've never had it in my 20 odd years of cycling and up until recently I'd never heard of anybody with it, but if folk check their house insurance they'll probably find that they're covered for liability, which will do.

cougie

Did you try bike line like I advised in your first reply ?

Dizeee

Bozman wrote:

Mikey23 wrote:

Not needed to use it fortunately but im pleased its there. To be riding around on public roads without legal and third party cover is brainless in my humble opinion...

I bet 90+% of cyclists don't have third party cover.
I've never had it in my 20 odd years of cycling and up until recently I'd never heard of anybody with it, but if folk check their house insurance they'll probably find that they're covered for liability, which will do.

Your aware that third party cover ONLY covers the car driver and not yourself or your bike right?

jgsi

Dizeee wrote:

Bozman wrote:

Mikey23 wrote:

Not needed to use it fortunately but im pleased its there. To be riding around on public roads without legal and third party cover is brainless in my humble opinion...

I bet 90+% of cyclists don't have third party cover.
I've never had it in my 20 odd years of cycling and up until recently I'd never heard of anybody with it, but if folk check their house insurance they'll probably find that they're covered for liability, which will do.

Your aware that third party cover ONLY covers the car driver and not yourself or your bike right?

3rd party obviously means the same as in any insurance... fact remains, if you are involved and it is not your fault, then BC or CTC , will pursue a case on your behalf when you give them a bell.... you dont need to answer the small ad ambulance chasers.
But yes if you are dozy enough to cause an accident, then you also have peace of mind over and above the fact that you have been an idiot.

Bozman

Dizeee wrote:

Bozman wrote:

Mikey23 wrote:

Not needed to use it fortunately but im pleased its there. To be riding around on public roads without legal and third party cover is brainless in my humble opinion...

I bet 90+% of cyclists don't have third party cover.
I've never had it in my 20 odd years of cycling and up until recently I'd never heard of anybody with it, but if folk check their house insurance they'll probably find that they're covered for liability, which will do.

Your aware that third party cover ONLY covers the car driver and not yourself or your bike right?

Yes I am aware of that and if I **** up then I take the hit for the damage to my bike! I've been down the road a couple of times over the years and destroyed a couple of rear mechs etc but I can live with that.
As for the comment about "if you're dozy enough", well 5hit happens and it happened to me once and my home insurance covered me for the £1200 worth of damage that my dozy a55 caused to the bonnet and light cluster of a car, be careful what you say JGSI because one day you might be that idiot.

ChrisB200SX

Dizeee, TBH I think it comes down to the driver, if they are honest about what happened their insurance should simply payout, but some idiots don't want to accept they were at fault and lose their NCB and pay higher premiums.

My first experience was a girlfriend's neighbour reversing into (and consequently writing-off) my parked car... took 2 years to get a payout from that... I just had to put up with the inconvenience in the meantime :roll:

That said, a few months later I got rammed from behind at a set of traffic lights by a builder in a van who clearly wasn't looking, fortunately I noticed him in the mirror and braced for impact, my car was written off (again!) and I had a settlement payout after about 5 days

Shame, I really liked that good, strong, little car... but still sold it to my brother after it was written off twice

I'll see my doctor this week about the neck pain and immobility I've had since the accident and also pressure some bike shops into properly assessing my bike and providing repair quotes rather than just fobbing me off. Then I'll have to pass these quotes on the Slater and Gordon's ambulance chasers.

Any recommendations about how to make progress with getting compensated for my bike damage would be very welcome though. My home insurance only covers bikes upto £500, which isn't really much bike these days.

I just want a professional to say "carbon frame/fork are fine but repairs to the other bits will cost £x" or "the carbon frame/fork need repairing replacing, you don't want to be riding on them".

Dizeee

ChrisB200SX wrote:

Dizeee, TBH I think it comes down to the driver, if they are honest about what happened their insurance should simply payout, but some idiots don't want to accept they were at fault and lose their NCB and pay higher premiums.

My first experience was a girlfriend's neighbour reversing into (and consequently writing-off) my parked car... took 2 years to get a payout from that... I just had to put up with the inconvenience in the meantime :roll:

That said, a few months later I got rammed from behind at a set of traffic lights by a builder in a van who clearly wasn't looking, fortunately I noticed him in the mirror and braced for impact, my car was written off (again!) and I had a settlement payout after about 5 days

Shame, I really liked that good, strong, little car... but still sold it to my brother after it was written off twice

I'll see my doctor this week about the neck pain and immobility I've had since the accident and also pressure some bike shops into properly assessing my bike and providing repair quotes rather than just fobbing me off. Then I'll have to pass these quotes on the Slater and Gordon's ambulance chasers.

Any recommendations about how to make progress with getting compensated for my bike damage would be very welcome though. My home insurance only covers bikes upto £500, which isn't really much bike these days.

I just want a professional to say "carbon frame/fork are fine but repairs to the other bits will cost £x" or "the carbon frame/fork need repairing replacing, you don't want to be riding on them".

We could literally exchange places. My driver crashed her car into a neighbours garden following hitting me - in shock. It was me that calmed her down.

Cut a long story short, by the time her insurance had told her to stay schtum and say nothing, nor admit liability, it was all down to me.

Seriously - until you get legal cover, and decent at that, forget it. You mention Slater and Gordon - do you have them on your case or did you just mention them as I did earlier?

You HAVE to get some sort of rep - it's your choice ultimatley and I wish you all the best but you will be back on this thread with nowhere to go in a few months if you do this alone.

Dizeee

I "just wanted" all you do, and it all made sense to me too to be friendly and try and deal with it myself. There was no reason not to in my eyes.

I have learnt loads since. Insurance companies. It's all about money.

My current bill is totting up to horrendous levels. Had they have simply "paid out" the cost of my bike alone within a few weeks I would have accepted. That was 7 months ago.

They now have to fork out my solicitor fees, plus my comp - which is far higher now as I have medical records, images, witnesses and a case that has grown for as long as it has been allowed to do so. But that's how their risk models work. Most don't get that far so it is in their interest to play it out.

Karlos69

Just as an aside, who provides the best insurance cover, CTC or BC, or are they pretty much the same.
I don't race, just train and commute.

jgsi

Bozman wrote:

Dizeee wrote:

Bozman wrote:

Mikey23 wrote:

Not needed to use it fortunately but im pleased its there. To be riding around on public roads without legal and third party cover is brainless in my humble opinion...

I bet 90+% of cyclists don't have third party cover.
I've never had it in my 20 odd years of cycling and up until recently I'd never heard of anybody with it, but if folk check their house insurance they'll probably find that they're covered for liability, which will do.

Your aware that third party cover ONLY covers the car driver and not yourself or your bike right?

Yes I am aware of that and if I **** up then I take the hit for the damage to my bike! I've been down the road a couple of times over the years and destroyed a couple of rear mechs etc but I can live with that.
As for the comment about "if you're dozy enough", well 5hit happens and it happened to me once and my home insurance covered me for the £1200 worth of damage that my dozy a55 caused to the bonnet and light cluster of a car, be careful what you say JGSI because one day you might be that idiot.

err.. I have been and owned up to it.. cost me £350 out of my own pocket. I actually didnt have to, as there were no witnesses but I just couldnt see someone else out of pocket as a result of my own incompetencies.
I stick by my comment about idiots.

Dizeee

OP - can you clarify your position at the mo - are you waiting for the insurance or do you have legal cover?

StillGoing

And I bet you still haven't reported him to the police for failing to report and exchange the relevant details. If so, you really are painting a picture to me as one of life's victims. It's time to play hard ball or you will get nowhere.

1) You need medical reports to calculate the rate of damages for your injuries. These can't be rushed otherwise you risk a low payout when the condition could actually turn out to be worse or long term.
2) You need an estimate as to whether your bike can be repaired and at what cost. If it can't be repaired, proof of the value bearing in mind the insurers are only obliged to pay current value and not replacement value.
3) If it is your sole means of transport, or the transport you use for work, you need the receipts for travel fares to try and reclaim those costs.

Get yourself a solicitor who will arrange a recognised medical specialist to assess your injuries and will do all the contact with the insurers or the driver if you don't have the insurer details. When I was knocked off my R1 many years ago, the other insurers delayed things as long as they could. It wasn't until my solicitor threatened to send the bailiffs to their head office to recover property to our estimated costs, that they suddenly sparked into life. Their loss adjuster suddenly arrived and payment was made within a couple of weeks.

You really have let this drag on for too long.

ChrisB200SX

"And I bet you still haven't reported him to the police for failing to report and exchange the relevant details."

When I reported the incident to the local Police I made these points clear... they were not interested, but that seems normal from previous experiences, "It's a civil matter" :? How can I FORCE them to do anything about it?!
If you have some advice on what I could be doing rather than criticising what you think I've done wrong that might actually be helpful. I could play hardball ... if I knew the rules :roll: which is partially why I started this thread.

CTC legal advisors have been useful... after leading me up the garden path to begin with, taking details for a PI claim before giving me ANY legal advice (which is what I phoned for in the first place!) ... and then telling me they couldn't act on my behalf as a CTC member because I didn't join before the incident :!:

It seems I have a few options:

1 Slater and Gordon will take me on as private client and sort out my claim, although they take 25% of the claim :shock:
2 Call The Law Society and find some Ambulance Chasers to make the claim from his insurance company.
3 Pursue recompense through Small Claims. (CTC pack has been emailed to me.)

Given that he hadn't reported the accident or given me his insurance details... I think the ambulance chasers are my only hope.

So far though, everyone has messed me about, bike shops don't even seem to want to quote for repairs, what's that all about?

I'll try Bikeline as was mentioned earlier and see where that goes (Falls under option 2?). Also need to FORCE some bike shops to take a look at the bike and give me quotes. And make an appointment to see a doctor to be referred for some physio re my stiff neck/shoulder.

It's a £650 bike and only a few months old. I've also got a mountain bike but could walk to work.

Home insurance only covers bikes up to £500, not sure if that's a sticking point or not though?

jgsi

Just cover yourself if things get out of hand in the sense a letter drops on the mat sueing you for damages.
BC or CTC .. join!
The bike is not a right off so .. whats the extent of the damage..?
A few 100 at the very, very max, I'd guestimate.
Loss of earnings?
If you want to write off the whole as a bad experience... I'd be inclined to personally.

I fell down what was tantamount to an open grid when blinded by sunlight and squeezed by cars a few years back.. Leigh Day were very helpful in saying I didnt have a leg to stand on against the council.... I nearly lost all my front teeth as I went and face planted the road, but hey .. rich tapestry and all that...

Dizeee

What exactly have the police said, was an ambulance called and what injuries did you sustain?

If it is a personal injury accident it must be reported by law within 24 hours. They cannot refuse.

StillGoing

Dizeee wrote:

What exactly have the police said, was an ambulance called and what injuries did you sustain?

If it is a personal injury accident it must be reported by law within 24 hours. They cannot refuse.

Exactly. By failing to provide the insurance details to you as it was an injury RTC, he has failed to comply with the law. He has to then report it to the police as soon as practical and in any case, within 24 hours. It doesn't mean he has 24 hours as the wording says as soon as practical. If he went home, washed his car and had his dinner before reporting, he'd still fail to comply with the law as he didn't do it as soon as practical.

I haven't seen a previous post from you (OP) so assumed you hadn't followed the previous advice re reporting to the police. I wasn't being flippant.
Go back to the police armed with the law regarding injury RTCs and point out he has committed offences and you want them to investigate. If they still refuse claiming it is a civil dispute, take their details and write to the Chief Constable who will forward it on the Professional Standards Department for action against the individuals. He or she will also ensure it is investigated as potentially they have an uninsured driver on the roads who is causing collisions.

Definition of a road traffic collision

The law defines a reportable road traffic collision as an accident involving a mechanically-propelled vehicle on a road or other public area which causes:

Injury or damage to anybody - other than the driver of that vehicle,
Injury or damage to an animal- other than one being carried on that vehicle (an animal is classes as a horse, cattle, ass, mule, sheep, pig, goat or dog).
Damage to a vehicle - other than the vehicle which caused the accident.
Damage to property constructed on, affixed to, growing in, or otherwise forming part of the land where the road is.
If they take place in a public place the police can investigate off-road collisions, for example, collisions in car parks, which, because they are open to the public, are deemed public places.

What to do if you are involved in a collision

If you are the driver you MUST:

Stop and remain at the scene for a reasonable time,
Give your name and address, vehicle registration number, and details of the owner (if different) to anyone with reasonable grounds for asking for these details.
If you do not exchange those at the scene you must report the accident at a police station as soon as possible and within 24 hours in any case.
When another person involved is injured you must:

Produce your certificate of insurance to anyone at the scene having reasonable grounds to see it.
If you don’t have your certificate with you then you may take it to the police station when you report the incident (within 24 hours). This must be produced within seven days.
This applies, not only if your vehicle was directly involved in the collision, but also if your vehicle’s presence was a factor.

If you have any doubts we advise you to report the collision regardless of who was at fault.

Failure to do so can mean you are committing two offences;- failure to stop and failure to report.

The penalties for each offence include a fine and penalty points on your licence. The court can also disqualify you from driving for either or both offences.

Dizeee

Well OP? The longer you leave this the harder it becomes.

Dizeee

Update?

It is in your interests to pursue this. I have just got a settlement for £10'500 for being knocked off and cutting my shin back in Spring. £3.5k of that was special costs (cost of replacement bike) but the rest was for a relatively minor injury. It has taken a long time to get it but well worth the wait. if you don't follow this up or make the effort nothing will happen.

Dizeee

Update??????????????????????