Looking For A Different Perspective...

Akirasho
Akirasho Posts: 1,892
edited September 2014 in The cake stop
... and know I'm opening a can o worms...

Local shooting of "unarmed" man by police.

This happened a while back but the video of the incident was only released yesterday. Thoughts?

http://www.whio.com/news/news/crime-law ... ase/nhRwM/

Comments

  • Colinthecop
    Colinthecop Posts: 996
    Don't go into a store with what appears to be an assault rifle on your shoulder...?


    That would be my thought to stop me getting shot by someone who is there to stop such things...
  • danlikesbikes
    danlikesbikes Posts: 3,898
    ^_^

    Pretty much as CTC says.

    Not sure what different perspective your looking for.
    Pain hurts much less if its topped off with beating your mates to top of a climb.
  • verylonglegs
    verylonglegs Posts: 3,954
    I think the perspective he means is that traditionally coppers don't carry guns in the UK and thus we have much less of what was in the video.
  • frisbee
    frisbee Posts: 691
    Colinthecop wrote:
    Don't go into a store with what appears to be an assault rifle on your shoulder...?


    That would be my thought to stop me getting shot by someone who is there to stop such things...

    Tell that to the fat white guys exercising their second amendment right.
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 25,801
    right_to_bare_arms_tank_top_t_shirt_tanktop-rc6d105c110154b268f70dd3b2119b3c8_8n2jr_512.jpg
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • finchy
    finchy Posts: 6,686
    My perspective is that the advert shown before the video is really tasteful and appropriate... :roll:
  • Colinthecop
    Colinthecop Posts: 996
    frisbee wrote:
    Tell that to the fat white guys exercising their second amendment right.


    Ok, one you're walking around with your WMD on your shoulder, don't do anything or act in a way which causes the store clerk alarm causing her to call 911.
  • veronese68
    veronese68 Posts: 27,328
    My perspective is that visibly carrying a gun of any kind is asking for trouble, especially in a country in which all of the police are armed. It looked to me as though he was chatting on a mobile and absent mindedly waving the gun around, not very bright I accept. The guy that called it in wasn't helping matters. He said he pointed the gun at people and at a couple of children, didn't look that way to me. He said the guy was loading it, not sure about that. This would have made the police even more jumpy. So eventually the police turned up believing a man is carrying a loaded rifle that he has been waving at people in a threatening manner. So the police would be quite nervous and jumpy I expect. When he sees the police he seemed scared, dropped the gun and got on the floor, seem sensible, I have no idea why he got up and headed back towards the gun. I didn't hear the shots, I guess it was at this point that he was shot.
    He didn't deserve to be shot, but he didn't help matters. I think it is inevitable that this kind of thing will happen if such a high percentage of the population are carrying guns. Criminals have guns, a lot of innocent people have guns and police have guns. The police are aware that every situation they get into they could get shot at, so they are a bit jumpy and possibly a touch trigger happy as a result. I'm just grateful we don't have that kind of gun culture over here.
    Also, you'd think they'd keep other people out of the area if there was the remotest possibility of gun fire. But there seem to be people just wandering around as if there is nothing happening.
    Kinesis Pro6
    Marin Nail Trail
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  • simonhead
    simonhead Posts: 1,399
    Ahh the American love of guns, cos its written on an old bit of paper it is the right of everyone to have some sort of gun. Flaming stupid, had this conversation with an American guy recently. His response was it was about protection cos those guys on the streets are all armed. He lives in a small town that has a part time copper and the crime stats of chinese soup.
    Life isnt like a box of chocolates, its like a bag of pic n mix.
  • capt_slog
    capt_slog Posts: 3,946
    It seems like there was a lot of difference between what the store manager said and what the dispatcher actually heard.

    It didn't look as if the gun carrier was challenged. BTW was it a gun? the OP says 'unarmed' but it certainly looks like one.


    The older I get, the better I was.

  • veronese68
    veronese68 Posts: 27,328
    I think it said somewhere it was an air gun. So, yes it looked like a 'real' gun.
    Kinesis Pro6
    Marin Nail Trail
    Cotic Solaris
  • ballysmate
    ballysmate Posts: 15,921
    Perception is everything. The law allows for it if you can show that you actions were proportionate, necessary and reasonable in the circumstances.
  • Akirasho
    Akirasho Posts: 1,892
    It should be noted that in some areas of the country, it is quite permissible (albeit stoopid) to carry rifles and guns while shopping...

    enhanced-buzz-8898-1401889055-8.jpg

    it should also be noted that the pellet gun the victim had was laying out in the store (not in a box) and he simply picked it up (was prolly gonna get a price check on it later).
  • veronese68
    veronese68 Posts: 27,328
    Akirasho wrote:
    It should be noted that in some areas of the country, it is quite permissible (albeit stoopid) to carry rifles and guns while shopping...
    That is beyond ridiculous.
    Akirasho wrote:
    it should also be noted that the pellet gun the victim had was laying out in the store (not in a box) and he simply picked it up (was prolly gonna get a price check on it later).
    So he was carrying a piece of their stock that he had picked up off a shelf? Wow. The whole thing is very sad, but its inevitable with the gun culture there is over there. If everybody is, or could be, armed. The police are also armed and their nerves have been fuelled by misinformation. They believe they have to shoot first to protect themselves and this is the outcome.
    Kinesis Pro6
    Marin Nail Trail
    Cotic Solaris
  • Akirasho
    Akirasho Posts: 1,892
    Veronese68 wrote:
    Akirasho wrote:
    It should be noted that in some areas of the country, it is quite permissible (albeit stoopid) to carry rifles and guns while shopping...
    That is beyond ridiculous.
    Akirasho wrote:
    it should also be noted that the pellet gun the victim had was laying out in the store (not in a box) and he simply picked it up (was prolly gonna get a price check on it later).
    So he was carrying a piece of their stock that he had picked up off a shelf? Wow. The whole thing is very sad, but its inevitable with the gun culture there is over there. If everybody is, or could be, armed. The police are also armed and their nerves have been fuelled by misinformation. They believe they have to shoot first to protect themselves and this is the outcome.


    Police policies here are now in favor of "aggressive" engagement with an active shooter (as in a school scenario) with statistics (at least) that back up their claim that more lives are saved by rushing in instead of the old, pre 911 method of waiting for a Tactical (SWAT) team to arrive.

    In this case, there was no ACTIVE shooter... just a guy with a toy gun.

    Yes, it is sad because, while the officers have been cleared of the immediate charges (I suspect that the family will now bring a civil suit which won't require the same constraints as a Grand Jury), two people have died and the officers themselves are noted.

    I doubt that this case will stop the "aggressive" engagement tactics seen in this video.
  • veronese68
    veronese68 Posts: 27,328
    Shoot first, ask questions when it's too late. I'm glad I don't live somewhere like that.
    Kinesis Pro6
    Marin Nail Trail
    Cotic Solaris
  • airbag
    airbag Posts: 201
    Colinthecop wrote:
    Don't go into a store with what appears to be an assault rifle on your shoulder...?


    That would be my thought to stop me getting shot by someone who is there to stop such things...

    Don't cycle on an A-road, if you do it's your fault your killed.

    What's the effing point of laws if abiding by them doesn't guarantee you, at the very least, not being shot by authorities? There isn't one, just excuses.

    Also unsure why "unarmed" is in quotes when that's clearly not in question. The gun laws in the US might be silly - the potential for more situations like this being one of many reasons why - but that doesn't excuse a police failing, and a jury failing in excusing them (ho hum, something something black male...). All in all, going to have to echo Veronese68:

    Here's another example of police "looking out for safety". We can't have you not wearing a seatbelt, right? Maybe you should wear a seatbelt if you don't want to get shot?
    Veronese68 wrote:
    Shoot first, ask questions when it's too late. I'm glad I don't live somewhere like that.

    I'm sure something political is going on that's leading to these incidents being reported more, and I know the media always distorts, but how the hell you can use the word "freedom" to describe a country where this happens is just confusing.
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 25,801
    airbag wrote:
    Colinthecop wrote:
    Don't go into a store with what appears to be an assault rifle on your shoulder...?


    That would be my thought to stop me getting shot by someone who is there to stop such things...

    Don't cycle on an A-road, if you do it's your fault your killed.
    Is it legal to walk into a store with an assault rifle on your shoulder?
    It is certainly legal to cycle on an A-road.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • MountainMonster
    MountainMonster Posts: 7,423
    airbag wrote:
    Colinthecop wrote:
    Don't go into a store with what appears to be an assault rifle on your shoulder...?


    That would be my thought to stop me getting shot by someone who is there to stop such things...

    Don't cycle on an A-road, if you do it's your fault your killed.

    What's the effing point of laws if abiding by them doesn't guarantee you, at the very least, not being shot by authorities? There isn't one, just excuses.

    Also unsure why "unarmed" is in quotes when that's clearly not in question. The gun laws in the US might be silly - the potential for more situations like this being one of many reasons why - but that doesn't excuse a police failing, and a jury failing in excusing them (ho hum, something something black male...). All in all, going to have to echo Veronese68:

    Here's another example of police "looking out for safety". We can't have you not wearing a seatbelt, right? Maybe you should wear a seatbelt if you don't want to get shot?
    Veronese68 wrote:
    Shoot first, ask questions when it's too late. I'm glad I don't live somewhere like that.

    I'm sure something political is going on that's leading to these incidents being reported more, and I know the media always distorts, but how the hell you can use the word "freedom" to describe a country where this happens is just confusing.

    As I American I fail to see how the freedom is not there? Coming from Britain you should be much more aware of not being 'free'. ANPR systems on town/cities entries and exits, CCTV covering most street corners in cities leading to being on camera an average of 100 times a day, and police cars roaming around with ANPR systems to flag anyone who has ever been stopped. That's hardly freedom.
    My London Road
  • verylonglegs
    verylonglegs Posts: 3,954
    MountainMonster wrote:
    airbag wrote:
    Colinthecop wrote:
    Don't go into a store with what appears to be an assault rifle on your shoulder...?


    That would be my thought to stop me getting shot by someone who is there to stop such things...

    Don't cycle on an A-road, if you do it's your fault your killed.

    What's the effing point of laws if abiding by them doesn't guarantee you, at the very least, not being shot by authorities? There isn't one, just excuses.

    Also unsure why "unarmed" is in quotes when that's clearly not in question. The gun laws in the US might be silly - the potential for more situations like this being one of many reasons why - but that doesn't excuse a police failing, and a jury failing in excusing them (ho hum, something something black male...). All in all, going to have to echo Veronese68:

    Here's another example of police "looking out for safety". We can't have you not wearing a seatbelt, right? Maybe you should wear a seatbelt if you don't want to get shot?
    Veronese68 wrote:
    Shoot first, ask questions when it's too late. I'm glad I don't live somewhere like that.

    I'm sure something political is going on that's leading to these incidents being reported more, and I know the media always distorts, but how the hell you can use the word "freedom" to describe a country where this happens is just confusing.

    As I American I fail to see how the freedom is not there? Coming from Britain you should be much more aware of not being 'free'. ANPR systems on town/cities entries and exits, CCTV covering most street corners in cities leading to being on camera an average of 100 times a day, and police cars roaming around with ANPR systems to flag anyone who has ever been stopped. That's hardly freedom.

    CCTV doesn't put people in the morgue with bullet wounds though, I think your comparison of the two is somewhat misguided.
  • veronese68
    veronese68 Posts: 27,328
    PBlakeney wrote:
    Is it legal to walk into a store with an assault rifle on your shoulder?
    It would seem it is in some places. Although in this case he didn't walk in with a rifle, it was a pellet gun that was being sold by the shop in question.
    PBlakeney wrote:
    It is certainly legal to cycle on an A-road.
    As is handling stock in a shop.
    Kinesis Pro6
    Marin Nail Trail
    Cotic Solaris
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 25,801
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PBlakeney wrote:
    Is it legal to walk into a store with an assault rifle on your shoulder?
    It would seem it is in some places. Although in this case he didn't walk in with a rifle, it was a pellet gun that was being sold by the shop in question.
    PBlakeney wrote:
    It is certainly legal to cycle on an A-road.
    As is handling stock in a shop.
    Best point made to date.
    Why is an emergency call made for a customer handling merchandise?
    Although I am anti-gun, this totally baffles me.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • LAXman
    LAXman Posts: 9
    Awe, Simonhead.... you don't live in America..... haven't had your head busted wide open by thugs, or shot at.... the police may show up in time, but don't count on it. I have had my home broken into, been put in the hospital, I've been upstairs helpless... at the mercy of the intruders... wishing I had something to protect my family.

    Or how about the woman recently in Oklahoma that was decapitated by a Muslim man.... finally shot to death before he decapitated another woman.

    Thank God we still have the right in this country to protect ourselves from those that have so little regard for life.
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 25,801
    LAXman wrote:
    Awe, Simonhead.... you don't live in America..... haven't had your head busted wide open by thugs, or shot at.... the police may show up in time, but don't count on it. I have had my home broken into, been put in the hospital, I've been upstairs helpless... at the mercy of the intruders... wishing I had something to protect my family.

    Or how about the woman recently in Oklahoma that was decapitated by a Muslim man.... finally shot to death before he decapitated another woman.

    Thank God we still have the right in this country to protect ourselves from those that have so little regard for life.
    Sounds like America is a much better place to live after all.
    That was sarcasm, just in case.

    Meanwhile, guns continue to bring a happy solution to the issue.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-29399022
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • kajjal
    kajjal Posts: 3,380
    Give the whole population the right to bear arms and this unfortunate incident will happen over and over again, along with children accidentally shooting their friends, unstable people going on shooting rampages etc.

    Very difficult for the police to workout if it is a loaded assault rifle or not. if it was and he did fire there would be a lot of injuries and probably deaths, assault rifle ammo will go clean through a car with no problems and is designed to inflict damage / death.

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