Ed Milliband Pledges Minimum Wage Rise to £8 per hour

mr_goo

Ed Millipede will set out plans to increase the minimum wage to at least £8 per hour by 2020. By which time after Ed Balls Up has f**ked up the UK economy, yet again. It will be worth less than the current £6.31 or £6.50 from this October. Hows that for a vote winner?

kajjal

If it keeps increasing at historic rates it will be about £8 in 2020 anyway. Another politician claiming water flows down hill is due to them ......

DeVlaeminck

Well at least it would guarantee that it would increase at historic rates.

ballysmate

Not too keen on only English MPs voting on English matters though is he?
Can't think why. :roll:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politic ... -rule.html

gazeddy

by the time it comes in it will be a pittance (not that its a particularly great rate now) im not far above 8 an hour right now and im in "skilled" employment and constantly in training to better myself. the taxing needs changing not how much low paid staff are paid. in effect we will earn more

nathancom

He has obviously been watching videos of B.lair on repeat as he appears to be trying to impersonate his personality.

Millibland's Labour have all the appeal of lift music.

The majority of benefit is being paid to people in employment which suggests that companies are in effect receiving subsidy from the government to remain competitive. Remove the subsidy and force companies to pay a living wage. If the companies go bust then the market has spoken. Isn't that the capitalist way of doing things?

The UK workforce seriously needs to skill up and this isn't going to happen while companies are addicted to subsidy.

pblakeney

nathancom wrote:

He has obviously been watching videos of B.lair on repeat as he appears to be trying to impersonate his personality.

Millibland's Labour have all the appeal of lift music.

The majority of benefit is being paid to people in employment which suggests that companies are in effect receiving subsidy from the government to remain competitive. Remove the subsidy and force companies to pay a living wage. If the companies go bust then the market has spoken. Isn't that the capitalist way of doing things?

The UK workforce seriously needs to skill up and this isn't going to happen while companies are addicted to subsidy.

Why not simply remove tax credits for all and income tax for low earners?
Too simple?

tangled_metal

Ballysmate wrote:

Not too keen on only English MPs voting on English matters though is he?
Can't think why. :roll:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politic ... -rule.html

he just wants to kick it into the long grass until after GE2015 when he is expected to form government and then he can stop it happening completely. Could be wrong.

Perhaps a compromise, a suitably binding pledge from all Scottish (and when relevant Welsh and N. Irish) MPs that they will remove themselves from all English or English/Welsh/N.Irish votes and debates on matters that are covered by the Scottish Parliament (and Welsh/N.Irish assemblies). Perhaps set up a temporary agreement between the parties that is followed. Then allow the commissions to come up with a truly workable solution.

nathancom

PBlakeney wrote:

nathancom wrote:

He has obviously been watching videos of B.lair on repeat as he appears to be trying to impersonate his personality.

Millibland's Labour have all the appeal of lift music.

The majority of benefit is being paid to people in employment which suggests that companies are in effect receiving subsidy from the government to remain competitive. Remove the subsidy and force companies to pay a living wage. If the companies go bust then the market has spoken. Isn't that the capitalist way of doing things?

The UK workforce seriously needs to skill up and this isn't going to happen while companies are addicted to subsidy.

Why not simply remove tax credits for all and income tax for low earners?
Too simple?

I guess they have been doing that by degrees in raising the personal allowance up to 10k but since Tax Credits are available up to £17k or something there is a lot of room still to go. To hit £17k you need a minimum wage of about £9.40 an hour which seems much more reasonable as a wage you could survive on compared to £6.30.

The current minimum wage will pay out about £11.5K a year so someone on that wage already is paying minimal tax. It would benefit the country if wages rose as more people would be paying tax - most of our current deficit is due to the dramatic fall in income tax receipts as people have moved into lower paid and part time work (of a generally low-skill nature)

If Millibland is serious about increasing the minimum wage he also needs a serious plan for how to skill-up the workforce. We clearly have the infrastructure to support high value manufacture and it would be a better to directly subsidise such industries to encourage their growth instead of subsidising low skill work via our benefits system.

mamba80

Skill up into what?
its an easy thing to say but the growth "industries" are not in highly skilled jobs - its super markets, call centres, fast food, tourism etc.
Do u really think we have "the infrastructure to support high value manufacture" ? and in order to compete they would need to pay low wages...... and subsidy is banned by the EU and who wants to go back to 60s and 70's ?
unfortunately, the min wage in many employments sectors has become a max wage too.

Many people on low wages are also on housing benefit and tax credit etc any increases in take home pay comes straight off these benefits and even if they didn't, what is to stop rents going up? nothing.

We need a return to social housing on a huge scale and allow buy to let to fade away.... but that's not going happen.

As for Milliband, he is a wet fish and possibly the least inspiring party leader of modern times.

florerider

isn't he doing what politicians always want to do - spend some one else's money?

tangled_metal

What happens if the minimum wage rises above the value of the work being done? As someone said the minimum wage is sometimes the maximum wage. This will surely increase as a phenomenon as the minimum wage rises above inflation.

I am not on minimum wage but I have benefited from the increase in tax allowance. For me that has been a huge help as I am firmly in the squeezed middle class. I have a reasonable but not well paid job, reasonable skill / education level and don't claim any tax credit or benefits (even if I am eligible). The allowance has done more for me than anything and I can only see how that is a really good tool to help people who are struggling.

The whole minimum wage issue is a difficult one. What people really need is a living wage but better minds than me can not get that ideal into reality. I seriously worry that any attempts to achieve a living wage will result in negative results as far as jobs go. Is it better to have more people earning a lower level or less people earning a higher level? Is it that simple?

I reckon there would be a question mark over companies taking on new employees or replacing those who leave. Can they now afford it? Is it not better to just make the existing workforce do more for their pay? By this I mean overwork those left. With on costs of employing someone it could be cheaper to pay overtime and expect employees to do it. Shift patterns brought in with 12 hour shifts as basic. Or other ways.

MountainMonster

mamba80 wrote:

Skill up into what?
its an easy thing to say but the growth "industries" are not in highly skilled jobs - its super markets, call centres, fast food, tourism etc.
Do u really think we have "the infrastructure to support high value manufacture" ? and in order to compete they would need to pay low wages...... and subsidy is banned by the EU and who wants to go back to 60s and 70's ?
unfortunately, the min wage in many employments sectors has become a max wage too.

Many people on low wages are also on housing benefit and tax credit etc any increases in take home pay comes straight off these benefits and even if they didn't, what is to stop rents going up? nothing.

We need a return to social housing on a huge scale and allow buy to let to fade away.... but that's not going happen.

As for Milliband, he is a wet fish and possibly the least inspiring party leader of modern times.

You would be surprised at the growth industries! In the Cambridge area, and nationally, the clean technology (environmental technologies) industry is growing rapidly, with roughly 1,000 jobs being created each year in the Cambridge area alone. Biomedical is still growing, and ICT is also growing in this area.

I'll happily agree though that there is a serious lack of manufacturing prominence in the country. That said, research based activities are growing here, and at least that draws good funding streams into the country. A huge amount of companies are also supported by the various EU initiatives such as the old FP7 framework, and now InnovateUK has huge pots of money for specific industries to conduct research among many other things.

verylonglegs

mamba80 wrote:

Many people on low wages are also on housing benefit and tax credit etc any increases in take home pay comes straight off these benefits and even if they didn't, what is to stop rents going up? nothing.

We need a return to social housing on a huge scale and allow buy to let to fade away.... but that's not going happen.

Is the correct answer as I see it. I said something similar to a relative years ago who has always been in minimum wage jobs, that increasing it means nothing as the cost of housing will just rise all the way up through the chain to absorb the extra coming in at the bottom. They are attacking poverty from the wrong direction, you need to address costs, not what is being paid.

Unfortunately Ed was schooled by Balls and Brown in economics and tax credits was Gordons little pet bunny so he won't be scrapping it. I've know people to turn down moves up the pay scale and the associated extra responsiblility as it wouldn't have been worth it due to tax credits, a ridiculous situation imo.

nathancom

mamba80 wrote:

Skill up into what?
its an easy thing to say but the growth "industries" are not in highly skilled jobs - its super markets, call centres, fast food, tourism etc.
Do u really think we have "the infrastructure to support high value manufacture" ? and in order to compete they would need to pay low wages...... and subsidy is banned by the EU and who wants to go back to 60s and 70's ?
unfortunately, the min wage in many employments sectors has become a max wage too.

Many people on low wages are also on housing benefit and tax credit etc any increases in take home pay comes straight off these benefits and even if they didn't, what is to stop rents going up? nothing.

We need a return to social housing on a huge scale and allow buy to let to fade away.... but that's not going happen.

As for Milliband, he is a wet fish and possibly the least inspiring party leader of modern times.

Automation of many jobs is going to continue as mobile becomes a bigger part of every day lives. The type of jobs you describe are the opposite of the type of jobs we should be creating. I wouldn't want my children to work in checkouts, call centres, fast food etc and they are only the growth industries because the country's economy is not being rebalanced, leaving our kids to fill unskilled service sector roles.

The government can effectively subsidise companies in a number of ways if it wishes, primarily through tax breaks but also through access to cheap capital. However, it can also help foster the environment required to help new companies arise. There is chronic lack of VC funds for tech startups in London which drives many to US instead, the government could create significant tax breaks for investors, underwriting of loans via an industrial bank etc to help create a critical mass for new tech companies to set up in UK. It could provide cheap workspaces for tech companies in a city like Manchester...there are a host of possible solutions, but UK civil service is highly risk averse and getting funds for anything takes years.

Agree on social housing, but we need to support people into building companies taking advantage of the latest tech much of which is discovered in our universities. For example it looks like we will be completely shut out of the graphene revolution, just as we are being shut out of green tech, electric cars, semiconductors etc. The future is happening somewhere else.

High tech manufacture creates high skilled and high paid jobs but while we have in the past sought to encourage foreign companies to bring factories to UK, it always ended in tears once the tax breaks ended. We really need to look at why we are unable to foster such companies in the UK. I reckon it comes down to a risk averse funding regime that wants a return immediately where we really need to encourage risk taking to develop a critical mass of successful companies full of talented people in the same place. The government could absolutely take the lead in this.

mamba80

Nathan, I don't particularly disagree with you on any of what you say BUT you are talking about a sea change in attitudes and investment in business and skills that would take decades, though I agree we need to start some where..

the current generation on min wage and benefits are not, generally speaking, be able to do the sort of jobs you would like this country to be generating.

My bro's kids go to a top private school, mine don't and there is a world of difference in opportunities and teaching std's, its in every aspect and more importantly, in aspiration of the children.
Possibly the first step we could take is invest in education, not just a few 10's of millions but billions of pounds over 5, 10 15 years, until we do, then we will never match, some where like Germany.
this country has the money, it just chooses not too.

unfortunately, politicians are far removed from most peoples day to day concerns and worries, Cameron and Millipede are from another planet compared to most british people, hence M's stupid proposal on min wage, ill thought out and does not address the real issues with low pay and working benefits.

bdu98252

For all of you talking about upskilling the employment market think back to you schools days. Did the majority of pupils have the skills for high analytical skills needed to drive technological companies forward. Any economy needs to be balanced to the ability of the population. This means that you need a large number of manufacturing jobs that are relatively well paid through company efficiency. As an educated and competent engineer I am not arrogant enough to believe that I could take up a research position and create the next cure for cancer.

tangled_metal

In my mind when politicians talk about creating high skill economy/workforce it makes me ask what they'll do with people not capable of fitting that high level of skill. I know people who are only just above the intelligence level to dress themselves. They're.doing an unskilled job and still struggling at that. I'm not poking fun at them, I'm just stating a fact. You need to have levels of fit for all too feel they're contributing and they can live on what they earn.

Germany is a good example of a higher proportion of family owned manufacturers. True they have their huge businesses like Siemens but they have smaller million b pound turnover businesses too. They're manufacturing business diversity was maintained when we lost ours. Not sure it's all Thatcher's fault neither. Plus Germany was more prudent in times of plenty than our Labour friends when in power.

No matter what the cause or origins of our nation's problems I can guarantee one thing is true, we'll never get a government to sort it all out. We get one that we deserve. With our first past the post It's oppositional with each of two parties taking turns to undo what the other did and bring in their own ideologies. No long term plans or even middle term plans because you'll be out in 5 years, 10 if you're lucky. True consensus politics might work better but it's a western view that's the problem.

I heard that in many Asian nations/cultures grandparents give over their wealth for their children to pay for further schooling of their grand kids. Sacrificing their present for their grandkids future. IIRC in China this money is used for private lessons so the child gets an advantage in the future. The kids start very early at 6am, work through to the afternoon. Then leave school to go to private schooling until 10. Then home, dinner, homework and finally 5/6 hours sleep until it all starts again.
Can you see British kids and families making those sacrifices? We're a socially bankrupt country that needs a lot of work to sort it out.