Dedacciai Ran or Condor Baracchi?

rfreese888

N+1 Research

I have a Condor Super Acciaio which is their steel racing frame. Fantastic bike, loves to go fast, handles well, uber classy. Now looking to go with a carbon steed for gran fondos and climbing. Current contenders are Dedacciai Ran and Condor Baracchi.

Dedacciai Ran
http://www.dedacciaistrada.com/EN/ran.htm

Light, high quality carbon, fast and loves to climb. More race than endurance geometry. A little over £2K for the frame set. Unknown customer service and advice from Chicken Cycles (the UK distributor).

Condor Baracchi
http://www.condorcycles.com/Condor-Bikes/12036-Condor-Baracchi-Frameset/flypage.tpl.html
Fairly light, high quality carbon, fast, good at climbing, a bit more comfy. A little under £2K for the frame set. Great customer service and advice from Condor.

Does anyone have either of these frames and want to offer their views / opinions on what they like / don't like about them?

Thanks in advance for the advice!

paulmon

Having just spent the last week going up and down some of the biggest climbs in the Alps and passing the same group day in day out riding expensive boutique bikes such as Condor or top end Canyon CF SLX/Pinerello/etc.. I can tell you the person doing the pedalling and the training they put in beforehand has a bigger bearing on how well a particular bike climbs.

Get a bike fit. I had mini one just before I left as I was getting some discomfort in the lower back and was about to throw the bike away. A longer flipped stem and a small change in saddle height fixed it for me. I'll be going back for a full fit next month and then drawing up a selection based on the results of the fit.

rfreese888

PaulMon wrote:

Having just spent the last week going up and down some of the biggest climbs in the Alps and passing the same group day in day out riding expensive boutique bikes such as Condor or top end Canyon CF SLX/Pinerello/etc.. I can tell you the person doing the pedalling and the training they put in beforehand has a bigger bearing on how well a particular bike climbs.

Get a bike fit. I had mini one just before I left as I was getting some discomfort in the lower back and was about to throw the bike away. A longer flipped stem and a small change in saddle height fixed it for me. I'll be going back for a full fit next month and then drawing up a selection based on the results of the fit.

Thanks Paul I am with you on the benefits of a bike fitting. I have done that myself and it does make a difference. I will be asking my bike-fit adviser which frame fits best before making a final decision.

I assume you haven't ridden either of these frames?

SFT

Hi, my wife rides a Baracchi and loves it. It is a lovely looking bike and is exceptionally smooth and quiet ride.
The guys at Ronde in Edinburgh built it for us and although they supply a range of fantastic bikes, the one they rave about is the Baracchi.
The black mat finish on the frame is tricky to keep perfect btw... but worth the effort.
Also the frame is built in the old Colnago factory in Italy...

rfreese888

Thanks for that!

What would you say about the Baracchi's geometry on spectrum of race to endurance? My main use will likely be 100-160K spins, often with big climbs, occasional 200K spins.

I am pretty flexible but no longer a yogi in my 20's
On a good day I want a slammed stem and raw speed. Others I need to settle in a bit and just get through the next climb or drag into the wind.

I think I could get used to the Deda RAN especially if it hoovers up the bumps and scampers up hills - but don't want to fool myself either.

mm1

I'm on my 2nd Baracchi (got the new frame as a retirement present, nothing wrong with the previous model). I'm not flexible and have nearly 55 years' worth of wear and tear and injuries and can say that the Baracchi is the only bike I have ridden where my back feels better at the end of a 40m ride than it did at the start. It's reasonably light, handles well and the matt paint is easier to look after than you might think (one coat of colinite wax and afterwards it will wash clean with plain water). And it looks gorgeous (the mate I was riding with on Wednesday who has a Colnago said so, it must be true!)

The Baracchi has a taller head tube than the Legerro, so it depends what you really mean by "slammed", a fitting is the way to go.

SFT

I'd echo that, my wife finds it very comfortable and rides it in the Alps so very happy with long days and big climbs....

FransJacques

the Ran is a top top top racing frame and is super light. The Baracchi is defo more workmanlike in terms of build and weight. Seen many a Baracchi but only have seen 1 Ran built up in a shop.

For lots of climbing I'd buy a Ran hands down. It's supposed to be sick light which would make it a better candidate for a light sportive bike. With my experience of continental sportives, you want quite a dialled in, optimized machine. The Ran (or a Fondriest TFZero http://road.cc/content/review/65876-fondriest-tfzero) would be a great platform for you.

Plus when you're in Italy, any shop seeing the Dedacciai will be very inclined to give you a hand. They like their stuff.

mroli

My mate got a Baracchi when his bike got nicked. I think he got it on the advice of his fitter as he was having some back problems and could get a better fit on the Baracchi than his old bike (he rode a Bianchi, but I don't know which one). It looks very nice, but if the Ran is a racing frame, then I think that the Baracchi is meant to be an all day riding frame - so different tools I guess. Re the "when you're in Italy" point - the Baracchi is "made" in Italy, I believe out of Deda tubing which is hand wrapped in Condor's Italian factory.

rfreese888

So have crunched the numbers and the weight difference between the two is not much. The Ran is 1115 grams incl. fork, the Baracchi is 1340 grams incl. fork.

The Ran comes in at around 6.2kg with wheels, groupset and main components added in. The Baracchi comes in at 6.5kg. NB I have Campy Neutrons in the Deda build and custom DT Swiss 240s in the Baracchi build. I am not a weight weenie so not sure how much more to add for fiddly bits of kit. Either way they both come in pretty light.

The big question then is fit. Ran has a 54cm seat tube (centre to top) for medium frame, and a head tube of 13.5cm. Barrachi has 52cm seat tube (ctt) and 14.5 head tube. Top tubes are about equal as are seat and head tube angles. I think the Ran has a slightly tighter wheel base.

I don't understand how to calculate stack and reach but I imagine I would be more upright on the Barrachi and more leaned over on the Ran.

Obviously I need to go test ride them both and then see where I stand. I am in London week after next so should get the Baracchi in then. The Ran takes more ingenuity because shops don't have them built up in UK and Ireland. Luckily I met a guy at an event recently who has a Ran and is willing to give me a go.

Stay tuned...

FransJacques

Careful with your mis-perception that a bike with a smaller head tube automatically means you have a "lower" position. New bikes come with 5-6 cm of head tube and stems come in 25 or so combinations of length and angle so don't make any assumptions about the end product. The only thing you can say for sure about 13.5cm and 14.5cm is that the former will allow you to get lower, and to achieve the same stem height you might have to run +1cm of spacers with the 13.5. But in the real world, where headset top caps came in all shapes and sizes, you might find that this isn't the case.

I hope you go for the Ran.

lawrences

PaulMon wrote:

Having just spent the last week going up and down some of the biggest climbs in the Alps and passing the same group day in day out riding expensive boutique bikes such as Condor or top end Canyon CF SLX/Pinerello/etc.. I can tell you the person doing the pedalling and the training they put in beforehand has a bigger bearing on how well a particular bike climbs.

Get a bike fit. I had mini one just before I left as I was getting some discomfort in the lower back and was about to throw the bike away. A longer flipped stem and a small change in saddle height fixed it for me. I'll be going back for a full fit next month and then drawing up a selection based on the results of the fit.

This forum is called road buying advice not the pointless preaching section.

FransJacques

lawrences wrote:

PaulMon wrote:

Having just spent the last week going up and down some of the biggest climbs in the Alps and passing the same group day in day out riding expensive boutique bikes such as Condor or top end Canyon CF SLX/Pinerello/etc.. I can tell you the person doing the pedalling and the training they put in beforehand has a bigger bearing on how well a particular bike climbs.

Get a bike fit. I had mini one just before I left as I was getting some discomfort in the lower back and was about to throw the bike away. A longer flipped stem and a small change in saddle height fixed it for me. I'll be going back for a full fit next month and then drawing up a selection based on the results of the fit.

This forum is called road buying advice not the pointless preaching section.

Indeed - Bravo for sounding like that guy who's been into the sport for all of 5 minutes.

Bike fits are great but like custom frames, not everyone needs one. New cyclists who are athletic from other sports can do quite fine. Many folks are simply unfit in a general sense and overdo it with their enthusiasm. But a bike fit won't always help you find a new bike like the OP is doing, they're designed primarily to fit your current rig.

menthel

FransJacques wrote:

lawrences wrote:

PaulMon wrote:

Having just spent the last week going up and down some of the biggest climbs in the Alps and passing the same group day in day out riding expensive boutique bikes such as Condor or top end Canyon CF SLX/Pinerello/etc.. I can tell you the person doing the pedalling and the training they put in beforehand has a bigger bearing on how well a particular bike climbs.

Get a bike fit. I had mini one just before I left as I was getting some discomfort in the lower back and was about to throw the bike away. A longer flipped stem and a small change in saddle height fixed it for me. I'll be going back for a full fit next month and then drawing up a selection based on the results of the fit.

This forum is called road buying advice not the pointless preaching section.

Indeed - Bravo for sounding like that guy who's been into the sport for all of 5 minutes.

Bike fits are great but like custom frames, not everyone needs one. New cyclists who are athletic from other sports can do quite fine. Many folks are simply unfit in a general sense and overdo it with their enthusiasm. But a bike fit won't always help you find a new bike like the OP is doing, they're designed primarily to fit your current rig.

If you buy from condor you get s fit in the service- means that you end up with the bike being right straight away. They then refitted mine a year later (at no extra cost beyond parts) once I had become fitter and more flexible. It does have a part to play in a good bike purchase. Having looked around other places such as Epic Cycles also offer similar if you buy with them too.