21'st Century Fox thingy

iainf72

So what does everyone make of the talk of their being a 21CF development team, with Wiggins as a figurehead.

They've talked about it twice on the Cycling Podcast now and it feels like they've got multiple sources. The idea being Wiggins would have a Sky contract til end of April, then flip over to the development squad.

andyp

I'm not sure Wiggins would be my first choice as a figurehead. You get the impression from the outside that he's not the easiest person to work with.

Sky do seem to have an issue with young rider development, of all the riders who've turned pro with them it's only really Kennaugh, Henao and Rowe who've found their feet in the pro ranks, but setting up a development squad doesn't necessarily fix that issue.

dish_dash

Something is up...

But first there is the issue of Paris-Roubaix, which Wiggins would have to ride with Sky. So can he legitimately switch over in April (Dennis only swapped post 1 August).

Secondly, who else is going to be in this development squad and what's its purpose? Suits Wiggins to swan in and out when he wants and basically focus on the track. But who else going into it and what races are they going to? For 21/Fox surely they want more than just a GB focus, particularly US but also Italian with that Sky Italia link...

andyrac

If it is a development squad would it be below the UCI World Tour? It sounds fine in theory, but would like to know how it would work. Or, would it be like Red Bull and Torro Rosso in F1? Owned by the same company, and used to bring in youngsters?

Pross

There's a few teams doing similar or have done in the past (Trek springs to mind together with Rabo). It would give riders a chance to ride at Pro Conti level and hopefully bridge that gap from domestic racing. Might suit riders such as Peters or Scott Davies. At least I hope that's how it would work.

awavey

in effect wont it just formalise the setup the Great Britain team had for the Tour of Britain, but pushes them into a regular backed sponsor team for the UK road racing/crits schedule, it is one of those things that Sky are notably absent on and then perhaps wonder why they lose out sometimes in the races they do enter, all of which could be repeated almost word for word for valid reasons for having a Sky womens team as well #justsaying

it makes sense to have Wiggo as a sponsor friendly front for the team and lets him focus on his own goals, but I cant see him being somekind of cycling advice guru for the team.

rick_chasey

Good.

Can't see Wiggins as a good coach, but then I'm sure they know more than i do.

mm1

awavey wrote:

it makes sense to have Wiggo as a sponsor friendly front for the team and lets him focus on his own goals, but I cant see him being somekind of cycling advice guru for the team.

Why? Because his achievements and his ability to pick goals, focus hard and achieve them can't possibly be transmitted to younger riders? The track squad (not just team pursuit riders) spoke positively about having him around before the Commonwealth Games.

frenchfighter

andyp wrote:

I'm not sure Wiggins would be my first choice as a figurehead. You get the impression from the outside that he's not the easiest person to work with.

Sky do seem to have an issue with young rider development, of all the riders who've turned pro with them it's only really Kennaugh, Henao and Rowe who've found their feet in the pro ranks, but setting up a development squad doesn't necessarily fix that issue.

+1
He is a bad role model and not the guy you want to work with however maybe he is great at teaching youngsters? I doubt it.

+1
Graveyard of new talent as I have said on numerous occasions. Dombrowski is leaving them at the end of the year.
Most riders I reckon come from smaller teams rather than development squads. Rabo is the exception I guess but most of those riders amount to little.

tom3

I thought he positively galvanised his young squad in the TOC earlier in the year, to work for him. Sound bites from them in the press confirming he was great at constantly talking to them at crucial moments during the race. To my mind that help would be invaluable.

It may have been the TOC that kick started the 21st century fox idea.

What a potentially great set up to help talent make the step up.

Gazzaputt

frenchfighter wrote:

+1
He is a bad role model and not the guy you want to work with however maybe he is great at teaching youngsters? I doubt it.

Bad role model? How do you substantiate this? How would you know as to his coaching skills? But of course he doesn't fit into the Frenchie panache way of riding I suppose.

If he gives the time and effort I see no problem with him.

frenchfighter

Well there are more than enough opinions from those that know and work with him for me to form an opinion.

tim000

frenchfighter wrote:

Well there are more than enough opinions from those that know and work with him for me to form an opinion.

those in the know? like people who work with him now and want him in the new team.

Anonymous

frenchfighter wrote:

Well there are more than enough opinions from those that know and work with him for me to form an opinion.

Your role model, your idol is a drugs cheat.

Wiggins is one of the most decorate British olympians, won the Tour de France and various other prestigious races.

frenchfighter

Well there will always be those with differing opinions or those willing to offer 3rd chances. Or maybe its like a boss who creates a new, yet useless team and puts the difficult ones in it. Imo Sky could not fire Wiggins due to the massive amount of ill-informed pr and fan boi rantings it would bring.

RichN95.

frenchfighter wrote:

Well there will always be those with differing opinions or those willing to offer 3rd chances. Or maybe its like a boss who creates a new, yet useless team and puts the difficult ones in it. Imo Sky could not fire Wiggins due to the massive amount of ill-informed pr and fan boi rantings it would bring.

Why would they want to fire him? He's been good at the races he's targeted.

His contract is up for renewal and both him and Sky are working out how to get the best out of the relationship for both of them. And this seems a solution that works for them, with the added bonus that they get a development team with instant prestige and experience (I could also see riders like Pate contributing too).

tailwindhome

So....what sort of races would this team enter?

RichN95.

tailwindhome wrote:

So....what sort of races would this team enter?

Assuming that they will be a Continental team - .1 and .2 races in mainland Europe (and the UK .HC races). The sort that Tiernan-Locke was doing for Endura. The presence of Wiggins will get them invites.

antsmithmk

This team will clean up the UK sportive race scene imo.

RichN95.

Tao Geoghegan Hart ‏@taogeoghegan 47m
Cool news this evening. Exciting times ahead.

Possibly connected?

andyp

He has a contract with Axel Merckx's squad for next season, so I doubt it.

Anonymous

andyp wrote:

He has a contract with Axel Merckx's squad for next season, so I doubt it.

Didn't Sky buy Wiggins out? The same could happen here.

andyp

I doubt it. A lot.

Anyway, here's Will Fotheringham's take on it;

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2014/s ... ympics-rio

Macaloon

Desperate. Slideshow Brad: void-filler and fark-givver when he can be ar$ed. A Greggs roll model.

tailwindhome

From Wiggin's perspective this makes no sense.
Seems like a fairly inglorious semi retirement to me.

ETA wonder will he do the Ras?

danlikesbikes

Think it makes perfect sense for Wiggins & Sky.

Sky are working with 2 big stars and GT who either don't get on, can't get or whatever.

Sky also are linked to BC, so they can't ditch Brad as they want to support him to Rio for his shot at gold.

This way they have both teams each with a big star & they get to keep both happy. Froome can concentrate on what he wants and assume that's GT racing and Brad on Rio and a few other races, plus perhaps will help his image of being a bit "difficult" (not my words) by helping younger riders develop.

No_Ta_Doctor

tailwindhome wrote:

From Wiggin's perspective this makes no sense.
Seems like a fairly inglorious semi retirement to me.

In terms of road cycling it is semi-retirement, but isn't that what he wants? He doesn't want to contest stage races, and of the one day races there aren't that many suited to him. He hasn't exactly left a lot of doors open to him. If he's serious about Rio on the track then all he really has to offer is some form of mentorship - whoever he rides for. Everywhere else he's just excess baggage. I can't see him even being able to offer domestique deluxe services if he's properly focused on his own ambitions, not in any race or race situation that didn't conform exactly to his training requirements.

morstar

I haven't read anything about this team other than here but what I would say is that coaching is a skill in its own right. Having been there and done it adds kudos but little else. If he's a good coach, he's a good coach. I would expect somebody who has developed their talent like Brad will always make abetter coach than an instinctive natural talent like Contador. The most naturally gifted don't understand the learning pattern.
How many top coaches were truly elite performers in their chosen sport?

JSCL

morstar wrote:

I haven't read anything about this team other than here but what I would say is that coaching is a skill in its own right. Having been there and done it adds kudos but little else. If he's a good coach, he's a good coach. I would expect somebody who has developed their talent like Brad will always make abetter coach than an instinctive natural talent like Contador. The most naturally gifted don't understand the learning pattern.
How many top coaches were truly elite performers in their chosen sport?

Just highlighting a bit in bold there. Want me to show you how long that list is, just at the BC level? It's quite long.

Most coaches at elite level have been there and done it themselves at some point. There's lots of 'coaches' that hire themselves out to amateurs and decent riders because they've done some courses and read some books and convey that to riders.

I'd say it's a pretty poor assessment.

r0bh

I think you're all getting the wrong end of the stick here, very unlikely that Wiggins would be a "coach" in this set-up. At most he would be a mentor, but more likely a figurehead for the media I would have thought