Carbon clinchers for general UK riding?

PonchoGreg

Hello all,

First post on the forum for me, so I hope this hasn’t been covered to death already... I tried a search but didn’t find a topic that addressed my particular query. Apologies if I’m wrong, feel free to point me in the right direction and I’ll be on my way!

So, I am currently looking to purchase a new set of wheels to complement a carbon fibre (stealthy matte black) bike build. I am currently using my trusted Fulcrum Racing 5s (1750g), but would like to drop some more weight from the wheels. I use 25mm Conti GP4000S II tyres. Current bike build is 8.1kg all in.

I am looking at two alternatives.

One is a set of 38mm carbon clinchers from one of the reputable Chinese outlets (FarSports in that case). U-shape rim, lightweight hubs, Sapim CX-ray spokes, 1250g or so for around £450 (accounting for shipping, import duties, etc.).

The other is a set of alu clinchers, handbuilt in the UK with the following: Kinlin XR270 rims, Novatec light hubs, Sapim CX-ray spokes. Around 1400g for £340 or thereabouts.

Quick background about me and the purpose of the wheels: I ride for recreation (no racing), but do the odd sportive and always try and push myself. For reference, I ride 100k in between 3hrs20 and 4hrs or so depending on the terrain. Not great, but not terrible. I intend to join a club to push the intensity and frequency of my training fairly soon.

I weigh 69kgs and to be perfectly honest climbing is not my forte, although I am leaps and bound better compared to just 6-8 months ago. I usually try and make up for it with bombing it on the flats/rolling sections, and descents.

In terms of goals I want to get faster, improve my climbing ability and ride longer/more challenging routes. The usual!

A lot of my riding is done in the Surrey hills as I live in SE London. Richmond Park is also a familiar hunting ground. The odd London to Brighton at the WE otherwise, and hopefully seeing more of the UK next year. No training camps in Majorca for me…

So here are a couple of questions:

- From what I can gather, carbon clinchers have come a long way in the past few years, to the point that many users don’t report issues with overheating and delamination if used sensibly. With that in mind, are they suitable for general UK riding, including the North/South Downs? I would keep my Racing 5s as backup for really wet weather and more mountainous terrain (should I ever take a trip to the Alps! )

- Would you rather recommend the KinLin clincher build? I know it would give me more confidence going downhill, and the weight penalty is not crazy. Also a tad cheaper and built in the UK.

As you can see I am pretty torn. I must say I really dig the look of matte, semi-deep carbon clinchers… I know it’s pretty vain, but I think it is quite important to lust after your bike. I’m also attracted by the slight aero advantage. Since I’m not in a position to try carbon clinchers, I’m however unsure as to whether the braking and reliability issues would affect my experience.

Any help, pointers, shared experience would be much appreciated! Thank you very much and sorry for such a long first post.

ugo.santalucia

PonchoGreg wrote:

- From what I can gather, carbon clinchers have come a long way in the past few years, to the point that many users don’t report issues with overheating and delamination if used sensibly. With that in mind, are they suitable for general UK riding, including the North/South Downs? I would keep my Racing 5s as backup for really wet weather and more mountainous terrain (should I ever take a trip to the Alps! )

Most of the issues remain and only the big players have gone some way to address them... that is Mavic, Zipp, Enve and Reynolds primarily... different money though! You still need to be really careful with the far eastern clincher rims.

PonchoGreg wrote:

- Would you rather recommend the KinLin clincher build? I know it would give me more confidence going downhill, and the weight penalty is not crazy. Also a tad cheaper and built in the UK.

They are OK, there are better rims in my view. Your quote is inflated by the Sapim CX Ray spokes, which are totally unnecessary... I never managed to go faster in a 10 miles TT with CX ray spokes than I did with round butted cheaper spokes. I would rather spend the money on better hubs than the Novatec 291/482, which are not that good!

PonchoGreg wrote:

As you can see I am pretty torn. I must say I really dig the look of matte, semi-deep carbon clinchers… I know it’s pretty vain, but I think it is quite important to lust after your bike. I’m also attracted by the slight aero advantage. Since I’m not in a position to try carbon clinchers, I’m however unsure as to whether the braking and reliability issues would affect my experience.
.

Only you know how much vanity matter to you. I am lucky, as I find deep carbon rims horrendous... 8)
The aero advantage is something in the region of 3 Watts... I am not aware of any bulb you can light with that kind of power... even the 3 mm pin LED need 4 Watts...

PonchoGreg

Ha ha, I loved that last paragraph, Ugo!

This is all really useful advice, thanks a lot. Besides durability/reliability (which is pretty important indeed), what do better hubs bring to the table? Would I feel the difference riding?

Sorry if that's a silly question, I've only ever bought one set of wheels before (factory-built) so the art of selecting the various components is lost on me...

ugo.santalucia

PonchoGreg wrote:

This is all really useful advice, thanks a lot. Besides durability/reliability (which is pretty important indeed), what do better hubs bring to the table? Would I feel the difference riding?
.

No... they ride the same, but the good ones ride longer before they feel rough. Freehubs have different noise level and pitches if that's a concern...
There are issues with some hubs combined with some rims, but it's boring stuff of trigonometry that you don't need to take in
The hub is ... is the "hub" of a wheel... get cheap hubs and the rest is wasted money... get good hubs and the rest can always be replaced

Ideally you want to spend 50% for the hubs, 25% for the rims; 10% for the spokes and the rest for the builder... 8)

intheknowcycling.com

PonchoGreg - know you are focused on custom built wheels but you might also consider the Reynolds Assault SLG. New model this season with modern rim profile, 25mm opening width, 41mm deep, sub 1500g weight (claimed 1475g), one of the better carbon brake tracks and about 2/3rds the prices of the Zipp, Enve, Metron, Mavic, Bontrager, Corima, Roval mid depth carbon clinchers. I found them plenty stiff (I'm about the same weight as you), responsive, handle well, fast and comfortable. They aren't the equal performance wise of some of those I just mentioned but they are a great value (and you might like the finish too ). Steve

ugo.santalucia

intheknowcycling.com wrote:

PonchoGreg - know you are focused on custom built wheels but you might also consider the Reynolds Assault SLG.

Which cost 3.5 times the OP budget... I think you should rename your blog as "bi(ke)llionaire"...

PonchoGreg

Oh, yes forgot to add: £500 or thereabouts is my upper limit. I am not a racer, nor am I made of money, so "good value for money" is what I'm after. So I am fully aware I will have to make compromises.

Thanks Ugo, that's good insight re: hubs.

kingrollo

Any performance increase from Carbon wheels would be nominal - if any at all - you have to be going pretty fast before the aero advantage kicks in

However that didn't stop me - I just wanted them because they looked good. I went for the carbon fairing on an alu rim from planet x. to cut a long story short these look like carbon wheels - but offer (IMO) more security when you hit a pothole - at a slight weight penalty over full carbon wheels.

They served there purpose - unfortunately I wrestled with could I afford to spend £400 - £500 on something for pure vanity - by the time I decided I could - arthritis had struck limited my cycling dramatically - as such I felt a bit of a pratt - farting along at 11mph with deep section rims 1

These were the wheels I brought - I would recommend them over chinese imports because you get a warranty

http://www.planetx.co.uk/i/q/WPPX60CCL/ ... r-wheelset

Enjoy yourself get the wheels 111

PonchoGreg

I did consider carbon/alu clinchers, but not sure about what I'd gain compared with my current wheelset... They all seem pretty weighty. Still, I'll have a look around to see what manufacturers offer these days

neal1984

I've got far sports wheels and I love them. I purchased mainly for the looks to be honest but they were a significant improvement on my previous wheels although they went on an entire new build higher spec bike than anything I'd previously rode. I think I've been unlucky thou as the rear wheel bearings failed after only 500 miles and they were not interested in helping as they are consumable. Tried to argue but in the end couldn't be bothered for the sake of £20.

ilm_zero7

have a look at Black Inc - they seen very light and a friend rides in a team which races on them and really rates them

sloppyschleckonds

PonchoGreg wrote:

I did consider carbon/alu clinchers, but not sure about what I'd gain compared with my current wheelset...

Nothing

cycleclinic

The aero advantage works at any speed the power saved grows with increasing speed but time saved is genuinly measurable for a aero wheelset for a 18mph average rider so you don't have to be a pro. CX-rays are there for those who want to save every last watt or two. The aero advantage of aero carbon wheels will depend on what you are comparing them to. Relative to the Fulcrum racing 5 it may be more than 3W at 30 mph which is how these things are usually measured but at 25 mph it may be 3W. Wide U shaped rims perform a bit better than narrower ones in this regard and of course the deeper they are the more aero they are well they should be.

Some chinese carbon rims are actually very good some may not be, farsport rims are decent and fine for U.K riding. Build quality of the wheel is variable though and beware of Bitex hubs. Had one guy pop in today looking for a freehub for one well there is no U.K distribution for bitex so he was not so happy. As for bearing life in the U.K it a bit hit and miss as it will depend on the quality of the bearings fitted in the hub and the how much wet weather they see.

Novatec SL hubs are fine race day hubs on a budget for all year round riding you may have to get used to frequent bearing changes through the wet months. Pick something else if these are not sunny day wheels or race day wheels.

Kinlin XR-270 rim is O.K but I were you ditch the Cx-rays and spend more on the rims like the Pacenti SL23's and decent hubs like the Novatec A171/F172, Miche or Hope ( in order of increasing price). Round spokes are alot cheaper and silver ones are cheaper still. This wheelset will be heavier than the kinlin build but lighter than the fulcrum R5's but preferable to me at least as they will be more reliable and the brake track is simply better. Will it perform any better than fucrum racing 5 may be not. It will be rebuilable and longer lasting though.

If you want to get down to sub 1500g on aluminium clincher build that will be reliable then you will have to spend alot more on hubs reliable light weight hubs like the White Industries T11 which in the weight weenies forum are considered heavy at 345g for the pair but weight saved at the hub offers very little performance advantage well none really.

I race an 8kg bike and making it lighter will not make me any faster, training has though I not struggling so much any more.

TheHound

anyone used the wheelsmith.co.uk wheels?

PonchoGreg

Hey Thecycleclinic,

that's really good advice, thanks - exactly what I was after. The wheels wouldn't see much wet/grimy weather as I'm thinking of them more as a "fair weather training" slash "Sunday best" wheels. Not more than 100k a week I'd reckon, and I'd probably use the Fulcrums for winter grinding.

PonchoGreg

BTW guys, correct me if I'm wrong but I assume it's a fairly simple/inexpensive procedure to replace bearings in these types of hubs? or do you have to bin it and get the wheel rebuilt with a fresh hub once they give up the ghost?