How odd, turns out I was right ref Scottish Yes Campaign

VTech

So, I said a yes vote will see the pillagers rape Scotland of all income and send the money elsewhere with the Scottish people being the losers as has happened elsewhere. I took quite a lot of stick as usual but that was no Surprise, so what comes up today ?
A leaked paper of the royal bank of Scotland having already made plans to move to London meaning jobs moving from up north to down south. This wouldn't be so bad on its own but what message does that give to other businesses as financial hubs are know to be the best places to conduct business, insurance, finance etc etc.

This can only be the start and I'm glad I'm not a small business owner or working class person there as I predict tough times to come.

Flâneur

Leaked paper or not, RBS having plans to leave after a yes vote had been reported and known about for months. It may not have been official but the knowledge has been out.

Anonymous

eugh

southdownswolf

IF RBS do leave Scotland, there will only be a handful of jobs transferred to London so that they could have a UK address as head office for legal reasons. The majority of jobs would remain where they are and carry on as they do at the moment. This really is nothing news as it was known about months ago.

VTech

southdownswolf wrote:

IF RBS do leave Scotland, there will only be a handful of jobs transferred to London so that they could have a UK address as head office for legal reasons. The majority of jobs would remain where they are and carry on as they do at the moment. This really is nothing news as it was known about months ago.

Im not sure anyone is understanding the implications.
This isn't about direct jobs, although I am confident they will move all but the low paid jobs. Its about confidence.
Confidence is everything.
Its the reason why more money was wiped from the value of Scottish businesses on monday than Scotland will take in taxable revue for the entire year.

Like it or not, when one moved others follow.
Does anyone here, even those who love to argue with me think that anything but the dregs of jobs will be left as a majority. ?
Before you think about that, I am actually wanting the best for Scotland, as I do for England.
Traders are going to have a field day, I can see another "Wolf of Wolf St" situation here.

Mikey23

So they get someone to go round and scratch out all the S's...

thegreatdivide

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-29160255

And that's from the biased BBC.

thegreatdivide

Also Lloyds (TSB) already has it's HQ based in London

25 Gresham Street
London
EC2V 7HN

VTech

thegreatdivide wrote:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-29160255

And that's from the biased BBC.

I wouldn't be surprised if the people in charge screw the Scottish after the vote with lower taxation allowances for banking groups if they base in London.
Its exactly what I would do (in a business sense) and what any PLC would do to save money.

This is not about the Scottish people, its about money and the losers will be those who thought they were doing the right thing.

In the 80's we had a government backed miners strike, whilst people felt the government and Maggie Thatcher were against the strike I am sure they were actually for the stoke because for a couple of years of hardship, they wiped out the coal industry and the gas lines were plumbed countrywide. After the strike coal was no longer needed !

How did Arthur Skargill become a multi millionaire ?
Why did millions from several gas companies get paid into a holding company he was a shareholder of ?

Why did the government allow the Pheonix 4 to sell the Rover car parts devision off ?
Why did the government allow the purchase of Rover from BMW to go ahead when PWC said it would not work ?

Money.........

laurentian

VTech wrote:

So, I said a yes vote will see the pillagers rape Scotland of all income and send the money elsewhere with the Scottish people being the losers as has happened elsewhere. I took quite a lot of stick as usual but that was no Surprise, so what comes up today ?
A leaked paper of the royal bank of Scotland having already made plans to move to London meaning jobs moving from up north to down south. This wouldn't be so bad on its own but what message does that give to other businesses as financial hubs are know to be the best places to conduct business, insurance, finance etc etc.

This can only be the start and I'm glad I'm not a small business owner or working class person there as I predict tough times to come.

The potential move of RBS following a Yes vote is not " pillagers raping Scotland of all income and sending the money elsewhere" its a business making contingency for a possibly unstable situation. Surely "pillage and rape" would occur if businesses continued to stay or operate in Scotland to take advantage of the unstable situation?

nathancom

All I see is an orchestrated campaign of intimidation against the people of Scotland. Who knows how that will turn out? And who knows what the result of Scotland becoming independent would be? Certainly not anyone posting on this forum.

However, the idea that Scotland would become an economic wasteland, alone out of North Western European nations, is indicative of the scaremongering that London is directing North.

VTech

laurentian wrote:

VTech wrote:

So, I said a yes vote will see the pillagers rape Scotland of all income and send the money elsewhere with the Scottish people being the losers as has happened elsewhere. I took quite a lot of stick as usual but that was no Surprise, so what comes up today ?
A leaked paper of the royal bank of Scotland having already made plans to move to London meaning jobs moving from up north to down south. This wouldn't be so bad on its own but what message does that give to other businesses as financial hubs are know to be the best places to conduct business, insurance, finance etc etc.

This can only be the start and I'm glad I'm not a small business owner or working class person there as I predict tough times to come.

The potential move of RBS following a Yes vote is not " pillagers raping Scotland of all income and sending the money elsewhere" its a business making contingency for a possibly unstable situation. Surely "pillage and rape" would occur if businesses continued to stay or operate in Scotland to take advantage of the unstable situation?

This is a catalyst, the bad stuff will happen following this. If you read all of my comments I refer to firstly Scotland becoming singular, then they have to fend for themselves which as well all know, is hard when you go alone no matter what the business or plan.
When your in a position like this you ALWAYS attract the pillagers, how do you think traders make millions ? they only make off others losses you know !
When you struggle you make poor decisions based on short term relief, that then encourages others to try and make off your back which will happen. Those in charge will trade deals, make no mistake about that and it won't be to the benefit of long term scotland.

nathancom wrote:

All I see is an orchestrated campaign of intimidation against the people of Scotland. Who knows how that will turn out? And who knows what the result of Scotland becoming independent would be? Certainly not anyone posting on this forum.

However, the idea that Scotland would become an economic wasteland, alone out of North Western European nations, is indicative of the scaremongering that London is directing North.

Im not so sure.
I agree that scotland is being intimidated but you can look at that from both sides, I actually think they are better off within the union so if intimidation works then fine, we will all be dead by the time the real troubles of independence set in.
I don't think scotland would be a wasteland either, why would it be ? I could see thousands of jobs created in scotland due to a yes vote, the problem is, I see those as low paid jobs for companies paying little too no tax due to deals given by scottish government.

nathancom

I am not sure why there would be a dramatic flight of jobs from Scotland. RBS has a huge site out at Gogarburn, a mini-town almost. Why would they spend billions moving these roles from Scotland when there is no need? British companies would also seek to retain market share in Scotland just as they do today so again why would there be job flight out of the country.

I don't know if the SNP plan to slash corporation tax in order to tempt companies North, but why would they be low paid jobs? The UK corporate tax regime is already quite favourable and the main narrative currently is that companies will haven in London whilst it becomes clear what a new Scotland looks like.

If rUK companies seek to exploit Scotland then the market will likely generate competitors who will undercut them.

Crucially, the people of Scotland would be able to vote out politicians who do not run the country in their interests which is something we cannot do today. The parliament in Westminster has failed to govern in the interest of anywhere but London and the South East for the last 30 years and is now finding out the cost of that blindness, whether the vote is a 'Yes' or a 'No'. The Union has been eroded over those years and is clearly in danger of permanent fracture. This extends beyond Scotland to Wales and the regions of England.

The benefits of running the nation for the good of Scotland, not just London, are potentially much more significant economically, culturally, politically than short term risks of economic uncertainty following a Yes vote.

Anyway, 18th September will prove whose position was stronger in the minds of the people and that is all the matters. Scotland is a great country to live in and will remain one on 19th.

izza

As ever, it's all about economics and power. Alex Salmond wants to spend the tax revenues the scottish firms/people generate. Will he (or his successors) do a better job than the current Westminster based MP's? Well since, I have yet to see an evolutionary (or even revolutionary) improvement in the quality of politicians over my life time any optimism or belief that Scottish MP's will be better than English MP's is finger in the wind time.

Furthermore, since he is enticing firms to stay in Scotland, via a reduced tax rate, the overall size of collective state revenues is falling. So it's a poor start from the off.

Still on economies, the first thing a country needs is money. The BofE says the Scots can't have the pound, the Euro wasn't much more welcoming and there isn't a pot of Scottish gold large enough to fund their own currency. That could be seen as intimidation or even blackmail, but since AS has had years to think up another option and has yet to find one, it would appear he needs to go back to the drawing board. FX traders are going to have a field day on a small country like his!!

In the bigger picture, is Scotland going to become neutral like Switzerland? I haven't seen any plans for how AS is going to fund a Scottish army, replace all the English submarines that will be rehoused south of the border or join in with Nato, etc. Clearly, Hadrian's wall needs some renovation, but we have enough prisoners (even after we have shipped all the Scottish ones back to the extra prisons AS will be building) to get on with some hard labour.

As far as this forum goes, the most pressing issue will be "Are we still allowed to to LEJOG rides?" LEHW just doesn't have the same ring to it.

laurentian

VTech wrote:

laurentian wrote:

VTech wrote:

So, I said a yes vote will see the pillagers rape Scotland of all income and send the money elsewhere with the Scottish people being the losers as has happened elsewhere. I took quite a lot of stick as usual but that was no Surprise, so what comes up today ?
A leaked paper of the royal bank of Scotland having already made plans to move to London meaning jobs moving from up north to down south. This wouldn't be so bad on its own but what message does that give to other businesses as financial hubs are know to be the best places to conduct business, insurance, finance etc etc.

This can only be the start and I'm glad I'm not a small business owner or working class person there as I predict tough times to come.

The potential move of RBS following a Yes vote is not " pillagers raping Scotland of all income and sending the money elsewhere" its a business making contingency for a possibly unstable situation. Surely "pillage and rape" would occur if businesses continued to stay or operate in Scotland to take advantage of the unstable situation?

This is a catalyst, the bad stuff will happen following this. If you read all of my comments I refer to firstly Scotland becoming singular, then they have to fend for themselves which as well all know, is hard when you go alone no matter what the business or plan.
When your in a position like this you ALWAYS attract the pillagers, how do you think traders make millions ? they only make off others losses you know !
When you struggle you make poor decisions based on short term relief, that then encourages others to try and make off your back which will happen. Those in charge will trade deals, make no mistake about that and it won't be to the benefit of long term scotland.

All of which may be true, untrue or irrelevant but RBS moving to London doesn't constitute "rape and pillage" of Scotland or prove that you were right as per your thread title.

I am aware of how traders make millions. (FYI incidentally, sometimes it's on the back of someone's success as well as from other people's losses.)

Colinthecop

Isn't RBS owned by the Government after the last bail-out...?

So the Government, who don't want independence, are releasing stories like this.

One could almost be suspicious of their motive. :roll:

Alain Quay

A few things about RBS 'moving to London':

- its boss is George Osborne

- does it ever show good grace in anything it does? They are not exactly anyone's favourite bank

- if there's a market in Scotland prior to 18 Sept there will be one there after

- the RBS has internet, apparently.

The Mechanic

I think you will find that the "contingency plan" is to ensure that the bank meets EU rules concerning the domicile of the bank in relation to its customer base. I am not 100% sure of the rules but I believe that any bank has to have its registered office in the country where most of its customers are resident. At the moment, RBS has its RO in the UK. If Scotland goes independent, then it would have no choice but to move its RO as most of its customers are in Englandshire. I do, however, agree that it makes no difference to the whereabouts of its operational bases.

Mikey23

Hugely complex issues with alex salmond has consistently failed to address, choosing to engage in character assassination politics towards the westminster leadership. Would be nice if someone would treat the scottish people like grown ups before the big day

lucan2

Would a move of Head Office from Scotland to England in the case of a Yes vote have implications for the tax liability of the company? Would the RBS pay more tax to the UK Govt than to Scotland's? And if so, is that the real significance of the argument and not the movement of jobs to south of the border?

Colinthecop

Salmonds take on the RBS news.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Jo113LjqB0

He seems to come across very well, perhaps it's not as bad as Vtech is suggesting.

pblakeney

For those of you who are more used to the BBC edited version of events, here is a link of the full recording sent to me by my Scottish friends.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrXPufTeOEE

The BBC's actions in both how they operate within the business sector and in how they edit events is quite alarming.

VTech

PBlakeney wrote:

For those of you who are more used to the BBC edited version of events, here is a link of the full recording sent to me by my Scottish friends.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrXPufTeOEE

The BBC's actions in both how they operate within the business sector and in how they edit events is quite alarming.

The BBC is one of the most corrupt networks on earth.
If I trusted the BBC fully I would never have travelled to Cuba, Malaysia, parts of Russia, parts of Jamaica, the UAE.

We are told what they want us to know. I've actually been watching BBC news and looking at troubles in Israel several years ago and called a friend who loved local, he was at a wedding and the sun was shining. He had zero idea of any issues that were live in the BBC.

tangled_metal

All this verbal tennis is BS. IF anyone knows what will happen go to your bookies and try to place a bet on it. Or go to the stock exchange or other gambling den and make your fortune. I am sure with the ability of everyone on BR I expect with the money you are all going to make from this sure and certain knowledge you are basing your comments on to see a lot of threads about buying new bikes and bike gear, etc.

Seriously does anyone know for sure? I thought the whole thing is new territory, you can't even compare it to the break up of Yugoslavia or Czechoslovakia which is a more feasible comparison. Let's just accept there are two regions of this current union that are probably the two most likely to be able to go it alone successfully. Those are Scotland and England. IMHO these two are the only ones capable of it and that does not mean they should. Although there is a part of me that would like to see the complete break up of he union if Scotland goes it alone. Now that would be seriously interesting to watch from the outside.

joelsim

I can see some very tough times ahead for the Scottish people if they vote 'yes'. Pretty much the whole country is subsidised by London's economic income, rightly or wrongly. I fear the whole place going tits up very quickly.

Colinthecop

Joelsim wrote:

I can see some very tough times ahead for the Scottish people if they vote 'yes'. Pretty much the whole country is subsidised by London's economic income,

Depends on who you listen to...

Wealth levels of an independent Scotland will be comparable with countries that enjoy a Triple-A credit rating, ratings agency Standard & Poor’s has said.
 
In a newly released report, the company today has confirmed that even without North Sea Oil revenue, a newly independent Scotland would "qualify for our highest economic assessment".

The conclusion is contained in a new report, entitled 'Key Considerations For Rating An Independent Scotland'. 

In the report the ratings agency says:

"The Scottish economy is rich and relatively diversified, with 2014 per capita GDP estimated to be US$47,369 (based on the Scottish government's estimates, which include Scotland's geographic share of North Sea output,...)

It adds: "Scottish wealth levels are comparable to that of the U.K. ('AAA'), Germany ('AAA'), Ireland ('BBB+'), and New Zealand ('AA-'). 

"Even excluding North Sea output and calculating per capita GDP only by looking at onshore income, Scotland would qualify for our highest economic assessment. Higher GDP per capita, in our view, gives a country a broader potential tax and funding base to draw from, which supports creditworthiness."

"In brief, we would expect Scotland to benefit from all the attributes of an investment-grade sovereign credit characterised by its wealthy economy (roughly the size of New Zealand's), high-quality human capital, flexible product and labour markets, and transparent institutions," said S&P in the report.

verylonglegs

Rating agencies were proven in 2008 to actually not know very much at all. That said, I don't think it would be as bad for Scotland as some make out if they were to go it alone in terms of GDP, it's just the idea of not having a central bank and to keep using the pound that seems rather risky.

joelsim

Just look at how much is subsidised by London's economy currently as pretty much everywhere in the UK is. That spells trouble.

Anonymous

That high GDP is probably partly due to wealthy English landowners, so I imagine they would flee if taxed too heavily

pblakeney

coriordan wrote:

That high GDP is probably partly due to wealthy English landowners, so I imagine they would flee if taxed too heavily

Not so much English land owners.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/ho ... 20933.html

VTech

Tangled Metal wrote:

All this verbal tennis is BS. IF anyone knows what will happen go to your bookies and try to place a bet on it. Or go to the stock exchange or other gambling den and make your fortune. I am sure with the ability of everyone on BR I expect with the money you are all going to make from this sure and certain knowledge you are basing your comments on to see a lot of threads about buying new bikes and bike gear, etc.

Seriously does anyone know for sure? I thought the whole thing is new territory, you can't even compare it to the break up of Yugoslavia or Czechoslovakia which is a more feasible comparison. Let's just accept there are two regions of this current union that are probably the two most likely to be able to go it alone successfully. Those are Scotland and England. IMHO these two are the only ones capable of it and that does not mean they should. Although there is a part of me that would like to see the complete break up of he union if Scotland goes it alone. Now that would be seriously interesting to watch from the outside.

The problem is that you seem to think that people like me or with similar thoughts actually hate or dislike
Scotland. That couldn't be further from the truth.
Scotland will get turned over by short term trading. I would happily give you 100:1 odds on that happening with a trade short of currency equal to £1b and whatever you bet I will give the takings to any charity of your choice. If you win you keep the cash.

I'm 100% happy to put my money where my mouth is.