Making my Trek more 'Comfortable' ?

zak3737

Hi all,
I recently decided to get back into cycling, and Road bikes for the first time, as its about 5/6years since my Mountain Biking exploits ended.
So, not wanting to 'break the bank' with a new steed, I picked up a Trek 1.7 from Gumtree, its about 4/5 years old, but in fantastic condition, and with great kit including 105 Gearset & brakes etc, and so far, its been fantastic. In fact, my son did an Iron Man distance ride yesterday on it !

However, for me, at 52, and with a bit of a problem lower back after a prolapsed disc earlier this summer, its perhaps a little more agressively positioned than ideal for me, and as a result, I've been browsing and tempting myself looking at some of the more 'Sportive' type bikes on offer these days, ie Trek Domane, Specialized Roubaix's, etc etc.
But, in all honesty, I dont want to drop serious money on something yet, she'll kill me !

So, I've been thinking, and would be grateful for the 'massiv's' opinions please.......I'm thinking, to perhaps make it a little more 'relaxed, what does everyone think of these little tweaks.....

1. Change the 23cc tyres to 25cc's......which lots of the new bikes seem to be specced with from new these days ? Slightly more volume = slightly more forgiving and slightly more comfy ?

2. Change the 6/7* stem, for perhaps a 17* - which according to the online chart I found, will raise the Bar height by about 15mm, and reduce the reach by just under 10mm too......worth a try ?

3. Seatpost - The new Specialized CobL and also Canyons top seatpost look interesting, with some good reviews, but at £150+, are an expensive addition........

However, if it achieves a bit more comfort, it all may be much less expensive than the Domane's and Roubaix's I'm drooling over..... ;-)

Thoughts appreciated pls ... :-)

e17blade

I changed from 23cc to 25cc tyres this year and much prefer the ride - so that is worth a go.

Good luck!

Dave

simon_masterson

28(+)mm tyres are a massive improvement on 23s and 25s. If you can fit them, do.

imposter2.0

'c' - not 'cc'. ie 23c - not 23cc.

Anyway, as Luke says - wider tyres at an appropriate pressure are likely to make the biggest difference..

danlikesbikes

1 tyres yes, the bigger the better and, the lower the pressure the less harsh the ride but you'll need to balance than against rolling resistance

2 could change the stem, or try using spacers and small changes to see if it makes it easier

3 could also look at your saddle to see if one give you move flex and comfort

+ if your back is all better now ensuring that you have a strong core and lower back muscles should help you ensure that your riding in a good position and your supporting your back to stop any aches/pains or at least reduce them

zak3737

Thx for replies chaps.

My current stem is flipped to its upright position, and although not a problem, I find my neck is uncomfortable after a while, due to the angle of looking ahead, hence why I wanted to get a little more relaxed etc. Plus, my build isnt exactly 'racing snake'.....so a little more 'Sportive' would be good.

Hadnt considered 28c too, I assumed they were strictly for hybrids etc, but got me thinking now......

I did treat myself to a Specialized Romin Expert Gel saddle - got measured for it at a local Spesh bike store, so its the right size etc. That said, my @ss aint particularly getting on with it at the moment, perhaps I just need to get it hardened in more over the next few weeks.....
I have tried a Charge saddle that was sitting on my son's MTB, and tbh, that felt more comfy, so I may have wasted the dosh on the Romin ! *shakes head*

My lower back isnt a problem particularly, and doesnt ache or anything, I just feel occasional tweaks if I catch a rough patch of road etc, - and in all honesty, I realise that perhaps being 'too upright' may well be as uncomfortable on lower backs as more downward pressure is exerted thru it etc......so need to find that compromise I guess.

danlikesbikes

Well ride, rest, repeat and see if you get less aches over time then.

TBH saddles are a personally choice and some you can get on with straight away, others just take a little time.

Could also look at changing to a thicker bar tape and/or move the brake hoods, minor changes might make a major difference.

Good luck!

laurentian

Zak3737 wrote:

I find my neck is uncomfortable after a while, due to the angle of looking ahead, hence why I wanted to get a little more relaxed etc.

I sometimes get this and have put it down to having to look "up" in order to get a better view from under the "helmet overhang" (no giggling at the back) in front of my forehead if you see what I mean. If you don't consider yourself in mortal danger, try going for a ride without your helmet and see how the neck feels . . .

zak3737

Just done some tweaking around, and I think bringing my saddle forward a little improves things quite markedly.
I've also measured the drop from Seat Height to Bar top, (using a spirit level etc), and its circa 2.5", but as bringing the seat forward a little has helped, I think perhaps a new 10* Stem would be ideal, just to bring the bars up a little bit too.
Amazing how small adjustments can make big differences, I'm surprised, - but hey, I have much to learn.

Also, just had a quick blast on my Sirrus, (which my son uses at Uni these days), as we've just had new 28c tyres fitted to that with a service, and its confirmed just how much difference the 28's make, quite considerable. I'd imagine even at a good pressure, they'll make things a lot more compliant/comfortable for me, def worth a go, if they'l fit.

Still unsure about my Spesh Romin Evo Gel saddle, still feels bloody uncomfy, with the Charge one on the Sirrus instantly more bearable......
I've only been riding again for 4/5 weeks, so perhaps its just my sit bones that are being less than compliant in breaking in !!
Perhaps a Spesh CobL seatpost would help........but the price makes me shudder.... *gulp*

Onward & upward, I think this bargain Trek 1.7 deserves more tweaking and chance, before I rush out and embrace a Domane or Roubaix too quickly !!

:-)

Toodlepip

Take my advice - buy a better bike, it will save you money in the end!

When I took up cycling again, I bought a cheap road bike (1960s Holdsworth) off EBay to use on rollers to get fit so that I wouldn't put miles on the bright shiny new Kona hybrid.

Well, the Holdsworth was so much fun that I had to take it out on the road - so new tyres immediately. The brakes were a little dodgy so £35 fixed that and a set of cheap clipless pedals (£35) improved power transmission. Of course the saddle was cr*p, and a Brooks B17 Special was much more comfortable (£90). Bottom bracket and crankset needed to be replaced along with a new front mech, and the head bearing needed some attention (about £200 all in). Lovely. Fixed.

Then a spoke popped on a fast descent and a trip to LBS showed that the wheels had been poorly built and needed to be replaced. LBS did a lovely job of building a couple of wheels for £200.

Love the Holdsworth - it's pretty and great to ride, but just not quite as fast as the Trek that I now have too. Thinking about getting the frame stripped and enameled some time.... after all it is the most expensive bike I own.

See what I mean? Enjoy the Domane / Roubaix, and if you are getting any uphill from her indoors, it's a lot cheaper than gym membership and you can sell it if you don't use it.

danlikesbikes

Toodlepip wrote:

Take my advice - buy a better bike, it will save you money in the end!

When I took up cycling again, I bought a cheap road bike (1960s Holdsworth) off EBay to use on rollers to get fit so that I wouldn't put miles on the bright shiny new Kona hybrid.

Well, the Holdsworth was so much fun that I had to take it out on the road - so new tyres immediately. The brakes were a little dodgy so £35 fixed that and a set of cheap clipless pedals (£35) improved power transmission. Of course the saddle was cr*p, and a Brooks B17 Special was much more comfortable (£90). Bottom bracket and crankset needed to be replaced along with a new front mech, and the head bearing needed some attention (about £200 all in). Lovely. Fixed.

Then a spoke popped on a fast descent and a trip to LBS showed that the wheels had been poorly built and needed to be replaced. LBS did a lovely job of building a couple of wheels for £200.

Love the Holdsworth - it's pretty and great to ride, but just not quite as fast as the Trek that I now have too. Thinking about getting the frame stripped and enameled some time.... after all it is the most expensive bike I own.

See what I mean? Enjoy the Domane / Roubaix, and if you are getting any uphill from her indoors, it's a lot cheaper than gym membership and you can sell it if you don't use it.

Can not fully agree with your advise based on yours and the OP's situation.

You bought a bike that was in poor condition hence you having to shell out money on it, where as the OP has found a bike that is in good condition and has some pretty descent kit on it and does not need to spend money it. Plus the OP is looking at the fit of the bike to ensure he reduces any pain/discomfort that he has.

A more expensive bike that is poorly looked after will cost more in parts and maintenance then a cheaper bike that is well looked after.

If (& it's a big if) the change of tyres resolves the OP's issues that alone has saved him money over swaping for a new bike that will cost more and may/may not solve the comfort issue.

zak3737

Believe me, this Trek 1.7 I've bought, is absolutely immaculate, so it's not a question of having bought a pile of junk,
it's a superb bike.
I'm just trying to find a ride position and ride comfort that's to my liking, WITHOUT ideally having to buy a new bike....
YET at least !!

That said, I'm already detecting that this sport could get expensive !!

Jules Winnfield

laurentian wrote:

Zak3737 wrote:

I find my neck is uncomfortable after a while, due to the angle of looking ahead, hence why I wanted to get a little more relaxed etc.

I sometimes get this and have put it down to having to look "up" in order to get a better view from under the "helmet overhang" (no giggling at the back) in front of my forehead if you see what I mean. If you don't consider yourself in mortal danger, try going for a ride without your helmet and see how the neck feels . . .

This neck pain goes with time though. If you are new to cycling or just re starting after a long lay off then you must remember you will be using muscles which have not been normally used. It's not just your leg muscles but your back and in this case your neck too. In truth you have just got to ride through it until you get stronger.

zak3737

Thx Jules, yes, Its just a case of putting some miles in.

I've been tweaking around, moved the seat forward a bit and thats made quite a difference to my riding position obviously, and didnt feel anything in the neck tonight, so thats good.
Still not quite right, perhaps needs to be a little more forward too, as I've realised that the reason my @ss has been less than comfy is perhaps because ive been too far forward on the saddle, and my sit bones not where they should be on the widest part of it, which after getting a saddle fitting, is a waste !
Tried to keep further back tonight, ON the seat as I think I should be, and was better, so with another slight tweak forward, all's nearly perhaps 100%.

Still might change the tyres for 25c, for some more give, or possibly the 28c, IF I have the clearance.

My biggest challenge, despite having a lovely bike for very little ££ currently.......is avoiding surfing the net looking at much more expensive options !!
;-)

plymouthsteve

Sell the Trek.. You are absolutely right to think that the type isn't right for you at this point in time.. then use the money to buy a used Roubaix (or Secteur which is alloy, cheaper but same geometry) Domane, Synapse or whatever.

Buy off ebay or similar, then if you get on with it, you can upgrade and sell it for similar money later, and if not, you can still sell it for similar money later.

If the bike is wrong for you, change the bike rather than make changes to the bike.

zak3737

I dont think its that the 'bike is wrong for me' unduly, more a case of my total inexperience with road bikes per se, and the ideal position to be in.
I'm sure someone who's been riding for a few years can easily tell what's right & wrong for them individually, but having never ridden one at all before, I had no idea.

Having done 30-40 mile rides already on it, without any major issues, I'm sure it can see me through a while, before I commit much more funds :-)

darkhairedlord

laurentian wrote:

Zak3737 wrote:

I find my neck is uncomfortable after a while, due to the angle of looking ahead, hence why I wanted to get a little more relaxed etc.

I sometimes get this and have put it down to having to look "up" in order to get a better view from under the "helmet overhang" (no giggling at the back) in front of my forehead if you see what I mean. If you don't consider yourself in mortal danger, try going for a ride without your helmet and see how the neck feels . . .

could just need to bend the elbows and relax on the bike. tensing of the shoulders is a sure way of getting a stiff neck and back.

meagain

"If the bike is wrong for you, change the bike rather than make changes to the bike."

This may or may not be the best approach! Huge variables - cost of changes, cost of bike v possible resale value, depth of pockets etc etc. If a simple stem swop solves the problem (perceived or actual), then that is almost always going to be the most economical route. As per my High Rise Stem post, any alternative way of raising the front would cost at least 50 quid more. That's nearly half my weekly state pension!

ai_1

If you've got a drop of 2.5" from saddle to bar top with the stem flipped and all spacers in then I would say the bike geometry/size are always going to be fairly aggressive for you. If you can adapt to that great but if you're not sure yet it may be best not to spend much that's not transferrable should you decide a new bike is the solution later on.
The changes you're working on however are the relatively cheap and cant be transferred to other bikes later (tyres, seatposts, saddles).
Like the others, I'd agree larger tyres at lower pressures will help with any problems road vibration or impacts are causing with you back. If 28mm tyres are just a smidge too big consider something like Michelin Pro4 SC tyres in 25c size as they actually measure more like 27mm and may fit. Also try and lift your weight from the saddle and take it on slightly bent knees and arms when you see a bump coming. You'll start doing it without thinking about it in time and it will mean most bumps cause no real discomfort.
I have some problems with my neck becoming achy if I try and maintain too low a position for long. When I started riding I needed a very upright position to avoid this becoming a big problem. Over time I've managed to gradually drop the bar a long way (probably more than 60mm - it started very high!) and can manage 5 or 6 hour rides without a problem in a reasonably aerodynamic and comfortable position now. A fair amount of adaptation is often possible, just don't rush it or expect miracles. For saddles, you will be a little uncomfortable at first even if you've got a suitable saddle. You need to get your position right and get used to riding first before you'll be able to judge which suits you. I found it tricky identifying a saddle that suited me but ended up with the same Romin Evo Expert Gel you have. I really like it, but saddles are not a one type fits all item.

zak3737

Well, considering that I only paid £325, and another £80 on a new saddle which is the right width, I'm standing at £400.
IF a new Stem was added, and solved the issue, there's another £60-ish.

Even with new 25/28c tyres, I'd have spent circa £500, which if its ultimately comfortable & rideable, is good value, - No ??

I'm thinking that I'd end up paying double that for a decent kitted out new Sportive-type bike, in Aluminium, or for perhaps more forgiving ride, Carbon, which might well end up costing me £1500.
-ie something like the Trek Domane 4.3, - @ £1525.

ai_1

Zak3737 wrote:

Well, considering that I only paid £325, and another £80 on a new saddle which is the right width, I'm standing at £400.
IF a new Stem was added, and solved the issue, there's another £60-ish.

Even with new 25/28c tyres, I'd have spent circa £500, which if its ultimately comfortable & rideable, is good value, - No ??

I'm thinking that I'd end up paying double that for a decent kitted out new Sportive-type bike, in Aluminium, or for perhaps more forgiving ride, Carbon, which might well end up costing me £1500.
-ie something like the Trek Domane 4.3, - @ £1525.

Agreed, providing you can make the current bike fit properly.
Also as I said, the saddle, tyres, etc can be transferred to a new bike if you did decide to change so it wouldn't be wasted money anyway.
I think you're going the right route and I wouldn't say it's time to decide you need a different bike just yet. If you can adapt the bike to suit you, that's obviously the cheapest solution.

MrLion

I had similar problems when I got into cycling and a professional bike fit made all the difference (I used the bike whisperer in Ealing in west london) - paid what seemed a fortune (200 iirc) to have my stem and saddle moved about a centimetre each and some shims put in my shoes but the difference was amazing - I went from getting pain after 40+ miles to riding 70-100+ with no back / knee / foot pain.

Not cheap but the best 200 I ever spent on cycling.

zak3737

Update:

I had a couple of hours free this afternoon, so put my bike in the car, and headed to a lbs, who's a Trek Dealer, to speak with them, and perhaps 'road'test a couple of Domane's for comparison.
He wasnt the best salesman in the world, quite a quiet 'matter of fact' demeanor, rather less than enthusiastic, but still, he agreed to help.
They had both '14 Domane 2.3 in Aluminium, and 4.3 Carbon in 56cm, both on offer, and so after riding my own the local test road's, I gave them both a go.
The 2.3, with its Iso_coupler thingy, immediately felt smoother, and less harsh, and indeed, a nicer riding position than i'm used to so far, not huge, but definitely better. £1019 was a good offer too.
The 4.3 was next, with its ultra-sexy graphite coloured Carbon frame, and again, immediately, I could tell it was another step up, very compliant and forgiving, yet immediate when pedalling. At £1525, perhaps a great value intro to Carbon......
Both had 105 running gear, so both good in that respect. And both had 25c tyres on too, so perhaps this fact made up part of that extra compliance that i'm searching for ........
I did also try the lead-in Domane 2.0, but in a 58cm, and whilst it felt ok and rideable, I felt I was too much 'in' the bike, if thats best way of describing it.
Shame I couldnt test the Carbon in 58 too, but I doubt it would have felt different.

All in all, I left very tempted, particularly with the 4.3 Carbon :-)

However, on the way home, I passed a local Specialized dealer, and decided to drop in to see what they had yet received from the 2015 range. I have been in a couple of months ago, and had a quick ride on a 14 Roubaix SL4 Disc, but at that point, i didnt feel inclined to be tempted to spend £1350.
That bike was a 56cm too, and although felt good, I hadnt been wowed.

This time, we had a chat, and he offered to size me up, and pulled out their '15 Roubaix SL4 Sport, in 58cm, which he suspected would be ideal for me. In bright lime green, it wasnt immediately to my liking, but I sat on it, and it felt good, and he then said - "take it for a quick spin if you like ?"

I did. I wish I hadnt. It immediately felt just 'right' for me, bars that bit higher, geometry just felt right for me, and it raced on with ease, even for this 'over 50 non-racing snake' of a man.
It really did feel super comfortable, immediately 'day long' comfy, and again, perhaps the 25c tyres had quite a bit to do with it, and the lovely Carbon frame.
The Shimano 105 set was slick, and another factor that perhaps made up the comfort factor was the Specialized CobL GobL seatpost, which felt great, and must have been a factor......

All in all, really really impressed with the Roubaix, and even in that very LOUD Lime green/yellow, I'm seriously tempted. Helluva lot of bike for £1500.
The Domane's were good, dont get me wrong, but geometry wise, the Roubaix just fely precisely what I'm wanting.

I'm wishing I hadnt gone in !! *gulp*

Toodlepip

Danlikesbikes wrote:

Can not fully agree with your advise based on yours and the OP's situation.

You bought a bike that was in poor condition hence you having to shell out money on it, where as the OP has found a bike that is in good condition and has some pretty descent kit on it and does not need to spend money it. Plus the OP is looking at the fit of the bike to ensure he reduces any pain/discomfort that he has.

A more expensive bike that is poorly looked after will cost more in parts and maintenance then a cheaper bike that is well looked after.

If (& it's a big if) the change of tyres resolves the OP's issues that alone has saved him money over swaping for a new bike that will cost more and may/may not solve the comfort issue.

Truth is, I didn't buy a pile of junk and not much of it really needed to be done. Once you start fiddling with a bike the bills ramp up. Not quickly, a few quid here, a few there. It's only in retrospect you realize how much it cost.

I now have a great Holdsworth and I've learned by doing a lot of work on it, but it would have been cheaper to buy something which cost more in the first place.

Not sure how tyres will solve a stiff neck, but it may work...

zak3737

A new Stem might help the neck.......

Larger tyres might help ride comfort.....

But all that said, after riding the Roubaix Sport yesterday, I may just be tempted to change anyway, felt perfect geometry for me.