Apple Watch vs Garmin Edge devices

dubbs2009
dubbs2009 Posts: 310
edited October 2015 in Road general
Anyone got any thoughts on how the new Apple Watch might fit into the cyclists GPS / Routing / computer market place. The hardware looks immense, appStore will allow people like Strava to create a great app to use on the device - we then have a tool which is just like a Garmin Edge, with the option to do even more than the Edge can do...

http://www.bikehugger.com/post/view/app ... fitness-ui

Are the days of the Edge over just as they have released the 1000? I was seriously about to purchase a 1000 - now I am really not too sure... Apple Watch likely prices seem cheaper than the Edge 1000 as well...

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style ... 23264.html

hmmmm....

Thoughts?
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Comments

  • marcusjb
    marcusjb Posts: 2,412
    edited September 2014
    Looking at a watch whilst riding will break your aero position. However, there might be a market for putting the body of the AppleWatch on a stem mount. However, the thing is flipping tiny - displaying power, HRM etc. in a size big enough to read when you're in the process of passing out through the effort? Not happening.

    Whether it is any use all depends on the software companies like Strava create.

    Furthermore, battery life comes into play. There's not been any news on that from Apple, other than it recharges via a kind of puck thing on the back. I can keep a Garmin going for 4-5 days solid riding without too many issues (external battery pack) - Apple aren't renowned for their batteries and their lifespan. I do much of my riding with a 4 year old Edge 800. I wouldn't be using a 4 year old watch/phone because it would be knobbled by poor battery and/or bloated software.

    I doubt that Garmin are over and done with quite yet. There's still much missing from the iPhone/Apple Watch party that is slowly being addressed (ANT being a key one, there are a growing number of Bluetooth sensors, but ANT still rules the airwaves currently).

    Edit to add - obviously if it's on your wrist, you won't need a HRM - but as above, I wouldn't want to be trying to focus on a sub 2 inch screen on my wrist whilst riding.

    New iPhones will have barometric altimeters - but no news on the watch (assume not). One big advantage of the watch is you can wear it (I assume they have made it waterproof - but again no confirmation!) and leave the phone in a waterproof container (where the altimeter won't work as well).

    I am not suggesting that the watch won't be a nice gadget, but there's much benefit still in the dedicated Garmin.

    I've no doubt in the future that the use of phones for navigation and recording will become prevalent - we will be driven down the path of 'good enough', much like many people don't own a dedicated camera anymore. But I think that Garmin etc. will continue to be used by the more serious cyclist for many years to come.

    Exciting times as ever in the world of tech.
    Stuff about riding a bike a long way
  • dodgy
    dodgy Posts: 2,890
    No GPS in the watch, which means you will need a phone with you. At least the Garmin devices can work without a phone, though arguably they're better with.
  • iPete
    iPete Posts: 6,076
    Can't put it better than marcus, buy the Garmin.

    If price is a concern, buy an 800, it'll be better than the iWatch.
  • dubbs2009
    dubbs2009 Posts: 310
    Good insight chaps - thanks. Agreed - 800 seems more attractive in light of the Watch introduction... What is the screensize? I cant find details anywhere...
  • dubbs2009
    dubbs2009 Posts: 310
    iPete wrote:
    Can't put it better than marcus, buy the Garmin.

    If price is a concern, buy an 800, it'll be better than the iWatch.

    Do you feel the 1000 is worth the extra near £300?
  • iPete
    iPete Posts: 6,076
    I've not used both but if you put the 800 and the cash in front of me, it would be my choice, it just works.

    If you want to plot out the occasional course, have a clear display and are happy to plug it in for uploads, its great. If you need a bigger screen that gives better navigation, wifi uploads and live tracking then get the 1000.

    The 1000 is a lot of money but either will last years, longer than the latest iWatch.
  • dubbs2009
    dubbs2009 Posts: 310
    iPete wrote:
    I've not used both but if you put the 800 and the cash in front of me, it would be my choice, it just works.

    If you want to plot out the occasional course, have a clear display and are happy to plug it in for uploads, its great. If you need a bigger screen that gives better navigation, wifi uploads and live tracking then get the 1000.

    The 1000 is a lot of money but either will last years, longer than the latest iWatch.

    Thanks - interesting bits here about the bits Apple did not share re: the Watch > http://mashable.com/2014/09/09/apple-ev ... questions/
  • IanRCarter
    IanRCarter Posts: 217
    Garmin will always have the edge (sorry! :oops: ) over smartwatches I feel. The Forerunner watches and Edge computers are designed specifically for a single purpose, a smartwatch isn't. If you just use Strava on your phone in your back pocket, then a smartwatch could be a good idea, but I'd much rather have a dedicated device. I still think smartwatches are a bit pointless, but if the manufacturers make enough noise then people will feel they 'need' one. They are a lot of money for something which doesn't really do much.

    In my opinion, the only thing which could really knock Garmin off it's perch in the next few years is if Strava developed their own GPS unit (or partnered Bryton, Mio etc).
  • dubbs2009
    dubbs2009 Posts: 310
    IanRCarter wrote:
    Garmin will always have the edge (sorry! :oops: ) over smartwatches I feel. The Forerunner watches and Edge computers are designed specifically for a single purpose, a smartwatch isn't. If you just use Strava on your phone in your back pocket, then a smartwatch could be a good idea, but I'd much rather have a dedicated device. I still think smartwatches are a bit pointless, but if the manufacturers make enough noise then people will feel they 'need' one. They are a lot of money for something which doesn't really do much.

    In my opinion, the only thing which could really knock Garmin off it's perch in the next few years is if Strava developed their own GPS unit (or partnered Bryton, Mio etc).

    Good point, well made. Ian do you run an Edge? Which one?
  • Bar Shaker
    Bar Shaker Posts: 2,313
    Before I bought my 1000 I did look at Google Glass, which has a Strava app on it.

    For the nav and ride recording side, it is excellent with mapping laid out over the junction you are approaching. But it has too many other limitations.

    1) No way of importing ANT+ device information (Cadence, speed, HRM, Di2)
    2) Limited battery life
    3) Is is waterproof?

    If future Glass editions address these problems, that would be my first choice.

    At the moment, the 1000 is the best bit of nav/data logging tech you can get on your bike.
    Boardman Elite SLR 9.2S
    Boardman FS Pro
  • Tjgoodhew
    Tjgoodhew Posts: 628
    My thoughts on apple products are they are very gimic focused and not really practical.

    They tend to be very fragile, have a limited lifespan, battery life is truly awful and are expensive to repair if anything does go wrong.

    I echo most of Marcus points - I just cant see any serious cyclist choosing this over a garmin.

    The news regarding battery life is that it will need to be charged daily and as it will mostly be in a non active state i would guess the actual use time would be a couple of hours max.

    Buy the Garmin 800 and get something specifically designed that does its job perfectly
    Cannondale Caad8
    Canyon Aeroad 8.0

    http://www.strava.com/athletes/goodhewt
  • dubbs2009
    dubbs2009 Posts: 310
    Tjgoodhew wrote:
    Buy the Garmin 800 and get something specifically designed that does its job perfectly

    Thanks - would you buy a 800 over a 1000 then?
  • desweller
    desweller Posts: 5,175
    Surprised no-one's come up with a pair of sunnies with an integrated HUD.
    - - - - - - - - - -
    On Strava.{/url}
  • dubbs2009
    dubbs2009 Posts: 310
    DesWeller wrote:
    Surprised no-one's come up with a pair of sunnies with an integrated HUD.

    You mean these Google Glass glasses :) > https://www.google.co.uk/intl/en/glass/start/
  • desweller
    desweller Posts: 5,175
    dubbs2009 wrote:
    DesWeller wrote:
    Surprised no-one's come up with a pair of sunnies with an integrated HUD.

    You mean these Google Glass glasses :) > https://www.google.co.uk/intl/en/glass/start/

    I vaguely know about the existence of Google Glass, didn't know they had a sunnies version though. Is it all driven by 3rd party apps?
    - - - - - - - - - -
    On Strava.{/url}
  • dubbs2009
    dubbs2009 Posts: 310
    DesWeller wrote:
    dubbs2009 wrote:
    DesWeller wrote:
    Surprised no-one's come up with a pair of sunnies with an integrated HUD.

    You mean these Google Glass glasses :) > https://www.google.co.uk/intl/en/glass/start/

    I vaguely know about the existence of Google Glass, didn't know they had a sunnies version though. Is it all driven by 3rd party apps?

    Yep - think so - Bar Shaker seems to know about this option. Just noticed your location Frocester Hill - as in near Nailsworth? I rode up Frocester for the first time a few weeks back on the Sodbury sportive 100 miler!
  • desweller
    desweller Posts: 5,175
    Yep that's right. I was in Nailsworth yesterday afternoon watching the ToB go through. Frocester Hill is a local 'standard'. I'm very slow up it at the moment thanks to 12 months of working away from home :-(. How did you find it?

    They shoulda let me and my mates pick the ToB route, they missed all the entertaining climbs!
    - - - - - - - - - -
    On Strava.{/url}
  • dubbs2009
    dubbs2009 Posts: 310
    DesWeller wrote:
    Yep that's right. I was in Nailsworth yesterday afternoon watching the ToB go through. Frocester Hill is a local 'standard'. I'm very slow up it at the moment thanks to 12 months of working away from home :-(. How did you find it?

    They shoulda let me and my mates pick the ToB route, they missed all the entertaining climbs!

    Great - good to know another local rider! I had some rather massive quad cramping on Nailsworth upto Nympsfield so that was very hard - but after 10mins of stretching that out and some liquid / food Frocester was all good thanks - I liked it as it doesn't get silly gradient - just long and consistent - my kinda climb - i am more of a power rider than a nibble light climber! Have you done Kilcot hill near Hillsely / Haweskbury before? 20% if not more... A good test!

    We were down at Rangeworthy at the sprint point cheering them all on - a great day in lovely weather! Down to Bath tomorrow for stage start too - great times!
  • Tjgoodhew
    Tjgoodhew Posts: 628
    dubbs2009 wrote:
    Tjgoodhew wrote:
    Buy the Garmin 800 and get something specifically designed that does its job perfectly

    Thanks - would you buy a 800 over a 1000 then?

    I have the 800 and have used it for the past 2 years without any issue.

    I can upload routes, use it to find the way home if im lost, it records all of the data i need for strava. I simply dont need any of the other features on the 810 or 1000.

    If they were all the same price then i would of course go for the 1000 but to me its like buying a 70k range rover to take the kids to school when a Fiesta would do exactly the same job !!
    Cannondale Caad8
    Canyon Aeroad 8.0

    http://www.strava.com/athletes/goodhewt
  • Bar Shaker
    Bar Shaker Posts: 2,313
    That analogy applies to just about everything you can buy.

    It would be a dull world if we could only buy products that did the bare essentials of necessity.
    Boardman Elite SLR 9.2S
    Boardman FS Pro
  • dubbs2009
    dubbs2009 Posts: 310
    Bar Shaker - have you got a Silicon cover on your Edge? Is it worth getting one? seems sensible to me in case of a spill?
  • Bar Shaker
    Bar Shaker Posts: 2,313
    I haven't, but have thought of getting one as my mission to colour co-ordinate everything is really gathering steam.

    I didn't get one for my 800, with no ill effects.
    Boardman Elite SLR 9.2S
    Boardman FS Pro
  • RDW
    RDW Posts: 1,900
    Some people who don't own a bike computer, and have no particular intention of buying one (let alone a phone mount), still like to set Strava or other GPS apps running on the phones in their pockets. If smart watches take off, I can see there being a market for an app that relays basic live data from the phone to the watch. The Apple watch looks about the size of an old-school bike computer, and could be mounted quite neatly on the bar or stem to give you a readable speed/time/distance display, or simple navigation warnings.

    Never bothered with the silicone cover for the 800 (once had one for an iPod, which just tended to trap abrasive dirt between the cover and the gadget, rather defeating the object!). I do have a screen protector, though.
  • rs6mra1
    rs6mra1 Posts: 105
    Guys on the Edge 800 does it need to be connected to a PC in order to upload the data or does in sync like the 810 does via Bluetooth? The 810 has the benefit of live tracking if that is of interest to the Op
  • Mikey23
    Mikey23 Posts: 5,306
    Yet another cynical marketing ploy to create a market when there wasnt one previously. Seems to have no obvious purpose. I suspect i will have to have one...
  • southdownswolf
    southdownswolf Posts: 1,525
    rs6mra1 wrote:
    Guys on the Edge 800 does it need to be connected to a PC in order to upload the data or does in sync like the 810 does via Bluetooth? The 810 has the benefit of live tracking if that is of interest to the Op

    The 800 does not sync via bluetooth. When touring I use a "USB on the go" cable to link between my 800 and my phone. The Uploader app from Sportablet then transfers my data to Garmin/Strava.
    My Forerunner 310XT will connect via Ant+ to my phone (Sony) and upload via the Uploader app to Garmin/Strava.
    http://www.stuartmole.co.uk/
  • g00se
    g00se Posts: 2,221
    With regard to 'wearables', there's some mention of adding additional sensors (altitude, pressure etc) to heart rate and GPS on the Android Wear platform. Also talk about activity specific devices - so it sounds like it may be possible for device manufacturers to provide the hardware and have the Android OS do a lot of the work - that may be a way for Strava to get it's own head unit.

    http://www.cnet.com/uk/news/google-says ... arter-q-a/
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,667
    Why do people seem to really really want apple phones etc. to be able to do stuff (even if its a complicated solution) that you can get a dedicated device to do much better?

    Those stupid iPhone/ipad adverts make me scream lol
    I like apple stuff because it works but I don't buy into all that 'chicken fat' or 'verse' rubbish lol.
  • Bar Shaker
    Bar Shaker Posts: 2,313
    edited September 2014
    Carby as a fellow Apple fan, I am sure you will enjoy this...

    I kind of feel the same applies to watches, but that's a whole different topic.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/a ... ology.html

    (it plays an advert first)
    Boardman Elite SLR 9.2S
    Boardman FS Pro
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,667
    Nice one lol :wink:

    Loved the swipe. Really bugs me when people swipe or enlarge in un unnecessary way/gesture on an iPhone, and always wonder if they do the same with a book/magazine.

    People are lemmings and just feel comfortable with certain apple products where they would normally feel intimidated by the technology.
    That should be a good thing, but people just act like d1cks about it :roll:

    I could not bring myself to have an iPhone until I thought I needed one as a Garmin accessory.
    Even then I think it was only the fact I could get a 5c and not 5s made it doable as I felt less stigmatised.

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