Kona Process 134 upgrades...

Angus Young

So, as per my other thread, I was torn between the Kona Process 134 and the Mondraker Foxy. I really couldn’t split them so, in the end, I decided to go for the Foxy, the fact that it had snagged Bike Of The Year (albeit, the ‘R’ variation) being as good a reason as any to go one way or the other. So that was that… I ordered the Kona! I spotted the Kona with £550 off, and that was irresistible.

It got its first ride (apart from a once up and down in the street outside my house) at BPW yesterday, my first visit there. Wow!

So, good folk of Bike Radar, there are quite a few of you who clearly know your onions. I know nothing about onions, and even less about mountain bikes (some of the following may be confused!), so I’d appreciate your advice on upgrades. I want to reduce the pork (currently 33.2lbs) and, obviously, get the best performance at the same time.

Current spec…
Kona Process 134

http://www.wheelbase.co.uk/bikes/mounta ... ocess-134/

REAR SHOCK RockShox Monarch R
FORK RockShox Sektor Silver Air 140mm QR15 Tapered
CRANKARMS Shimano Deore
CHAINRINGS 24/38t
FREEWHEEL Shimano Deore 11-36t 10 spd
F/D Sram X5
R/D Shimano SLX Shadow Plus
SHIFTERS Shimano Deore
BRAKE CALIPERS Shimano M505
FRONT BRAKE ROTOR Shimano 180mm (centerlock)
REAR BRAKE ROTOR Shimano 160mm (centerlock)
BRAKE LEVERS Shimano M505
HEADSET FSA Orbit 1.5 ZS No.57B
HANDLEBAR Kona XC/BC Riser
STEM Kona 40mm
SEATPOST KS Eten R
SEAT CLAMP Kona Clamp
GRIPS Kona S-LOG
SADDLE WTB Volt Sport SE
FRONT HUB Shimano Deore QR15
REAR HUB Shimano Deore 142x12mm
SPOKES Stainless 14g
RIMS WTB SX23
FRONT TIRE Maxxis Ardent 27.5x2.25"
REAR TIRE Maxxis Ardent 27.5x2.25"

Fork…
I’m ordering a Pike to go on the front (as that seems to be a no-brainer). So a few questions regarding that. First of all, what might seem like a rather basic question…

Is this the Pike variation I need?

http://www.merlincycles.com/rockshox-pi ... 67701.html

I think it is but there are a few variations so I want to make sure. And has anyone seen them cheaper?

Second: What will the effect of leaving the Pike at 150mm have on the way the bike performs, given that it comes with a 140mm fork? Would it be best if I do the hack/mod to reduce it down to 140mm or would leaving it at 150mm be good/interesting/O.K?

And: I found this quote in the customer review (at the link above):
“Install the 2 red bottomless tokens before you even fit them to the bike. They make an already awesome fork even better as they help ramp up the end stroke and the bike is supported in the mid stroke more.”

Any thoughts on the above? Is it a valid comment and worth doing?

And am I right in thinking they only come with those horrible black stanchions? I’m not seeing anything but, so I guess I’ll just have to live with that.

Wheels…
By all accounts the standard wheels are quite chubby (Supersonic estimates about 2.2kg for the pair), so they’re going. I’m considering the Superstar Carbon AM wheelset. What are your thoughts on these and what are your suggestions for alternatives for the same price or, preferably, less (don’t have to be carbon)? This will be my one and only ‘do it all’ bike and I’ll be riding everything from towpaths to “Oh sh!t, what was I thinking!!!” And I’d like to go tubeless, too, topping them off with High Roller IIs.

And, given the afore mentioned Pike (and the back end of the Process), what variation on the wheels do I need to order, front and back? There seems to be about a dozen different options on the Superstar Carbons, for example. I assume it’s the 142x12 that I need? Is there anything else to look out for?

One more thing… I think I remember reading that certain hubs are really loud. And that some people really like that. I don’t get it. Why would you want your hubs to be loud? Isn’t it a given that you’d want your hubs (and bike in general) to be as quiet as possible? Lollipop sticks in my spokes were cool when I was 12. Not so much anymore. So quiet hubs please.

What about Mavic wheels? Nukeproof? Any thoughts?

Or other suggestions?

poah

you should be able to save a lot with a decent set of wheels and going tubeless and about 1lb going 1x10 too. changing to a carbon bar will probably save around 80g-100g. the RCT3 is the aftermarket fork with the RC being a OE version. I got my pike from bike-discount for £500. However, if I were you I would actually forget about wheels the now and get a CCDB inline to replace the monarch R. but thats a fair wack to spend

Chunkers1980

You bought the wrong bike then if you do owt now

supersonic

The more 'basic' Pike RC will work just as well - same damper without the full lock and 'pedal' settings. Though it does have the fully adjustable low speed compression adjustment which is the important bit. As for the tokens, whatever works best for you. The damper is designed to ride high in the stroke anyway. Simply experiment.

These wheels are worth a look:

http://www.xxcycle.com/american-classic ... AudK8P8HAQ

You'll have to email them about the variants (you will need the 142x12mm).

BloggingFit

First off congrats on your purchase...

Fork
I replaced my 140mm Fox for a 150mm Pike on my Remedy with no issue. Rockshox tend to be a bit longer than Fox so for you the difference in height should be less than I have. All I would say is that at almost stand still speeds the steering may feel a little slower but this may be specific to my bike and it's geometry and not an issue. Swapping out the stock 80mm stem for a 50mm stem solved this and generally helped with the overall feel of the bike but again this is subjective to the bike.

I chose the RCT3 version as I thought the 3 positions may be useful coming across from CTD on a Fox but I just leave it Open all the time. The other reason being that the RCT3 comes with a star nut, pump and tokens where I think the RC purely comes as shock only in the box due to being the OE version. I could be wrong on the tokens part.

As Supersonic has already said they sit high in their travel so you may not need the tokens. They simply help to resist bottoming out by making things more progressing and ramp up more as you get to the end of your travel. If you blow through travel frequently and sag is set up correctly then they may be worth considering. Otherwise I wouldn't worry. I haven't felt the need myself but having not ridden BPW I can't comment on the terrain and whether you may need them. I shall be next month so I may well think differently after that. It's something you can easily add or experiment with if you feel the need.

Wheels, etc
As others have said Wheels are the obvious choice to lose a fair amount of weight plus any saving on rotational mass is a good thing and worth twice as much in my book. Can't comment on Superstar Carbon sets but can on Light Bicycle carbon rims being really good. Most economical option would be to get the rims and then source hubs etc yourself and build rather than going with the Wheelset options.

Hope hubs are noisy just to warn you. Bare in mind if you want to use existing rotors then you need to get centre lock as per your current set up which can limit hub options. I put on new rotors and cassette so I effectively had two complete sets of wheels I could quickly swap over if need be with the idea to have a Winter and Summer set up. Ultimately my Winter set went on my Hardtail build along with my old forks but you get the idea.

Going to 1x10 set up is also a cheap way of reducing some weight and should only require a wide narrow chainring and clutch rear mech purchase. Your cranks also will be quite hefty so could save weight here as well. If you end up changing the cockpit set up due to the fork then the bar is another area as POAH suggests. Saddle and post are other areas if you don't happen to like the stock one - 100g here and there soon adds up but so does the cost.

Angus Young

Thanks for all the replies.

POAH wrote:

you should be able to save... ... about 1lb going 1x10 too. Changing to a carbon bar will probably save around 80g-100g.

Been thinking about 1x10 but I'm not convinced my legs are up to it yet. Might be something for a few months time once I've built up my strength. Yes, a carbon bar is on the shopping list. Hopefully that will not only save some weight but it will also kill some buzz, too. Not that there's much to kill, though, but every little helps.

POAH wrote:

... if I were you I would actually forget about wheels the now and get a CCDB inline to replace the monarch R. but thats a fair wack to spend

Yes, I've been thinking about the CCDB inline (read your blog along with all the other glowing reviews) so I might add that onto the list if I haven't already spent too much dealing with the other stuff.

Chunkers1980 wrote:

You bought the wrong bike then if you do owt now

No, I didn't, not if its performance at BPW was anything to go by.

supersonic wrote:

As for the tokens, whatever works best for you. The damper is designed to ride high in the stroke anyway. Simply experiment.

To be honest, I'm not sure I'm going to be doing anything heroic enough to bottom out a Pike anyway so if the fork is not doing anything it might in that last bit of travel it probably doesn't matter.

supersonic wrote:

These wheels are worth a look:

http://www.xxcycle.com/american-classic ... AudK8P8HAQ

Thanks, I'll take a look at those.

BloggingFit wrote:

First off congrats on your purchase...

Thank you.

BloggingFit wrote:

Fork
I replaced my 140mm Fox for a 150mm Pike on my Remedy with no issue. Rockshox tend to be a bit longer than Fox so for you the difference in height should be less than I have. All I would say is that at almost stand still speeds the steering may feel a little slower but this may be specific to my bike and it's geometry and not an issue. Swapping out the stock 80mm stem for a 50mm stem solved this and generally helped with the overall feel of the bike but again this is subjective to the bike.

I chose the RCT3 version as I thought the 3 positions may be useful coming across from CTD on a Fox but I just leave it Open all the time. The other reason being that the RCT3 comes with a star nut, pump and tokens where I think the RC purely comes as shock only in the box due to being the OE version. I could be wrong on the tokens part.

As Supersonic has already said they sit high in their travel so you may not need the tokens. They simply help to resist bottoming out by making things more progressing and ramp up more as you get to the end of your travel. If you blow through travel frequently and sag is set up correctly then they may be worth considering. Otherwise I wouldn't worry. I haven't felt the need myself but having not ridden BPW I can't comment on the terrain and whether you may need them. I shall be next month so I may well think differently after that. It's something you can easily add or experiment with if you feel the need.

Thanks, good information there.

BloggingFit wrote:

Wheels, etc
As others have said Wheels are the obvious choice to lose a fair amount of weight plus any saving on rotational mass is a good thing and worth twice as much in my book. Can't comment on Superstar Carbon sets but can on Light Bicycle carbon rims being really good. Most economical option would be to get the rims and then source hubs etc yourself and build rather than going with the Wheelset options.

Hope hubs are noisy just to warn you. Bare in mind if you want to use existing rotors then you need to get centre lock as per your current set up which can limit hub options. I put on new rotors and cassette so I effectively had two complete sets of wheels I could quickly swap over if need be with the idea to have a Winter and Summer set up. Ultimately my Winter set went on my Hardtail build along with my old forks but you get the idea.

Going to 1x10 set up is also a cheap way of reducing some weight and should only require a wide narrow chainring and clutch rear mech purchase. Your cranks also will be quite hefty so could save weight here as well. If you end up changing the cockpit set up due to the fork then the bar is another area as POAH suggests. Saddle and post are other areas if you don't happen to like the stock one - 100g here and there soon adds up but so does the cost.

I've been thinking about Light Bicycle carbon rims but I'm not sure if I'm swayed by Superstar's claims of the superiority of their own rims. Although I don't remember them mentioning Light Bicycle in particular they must be one of the companies that Superstar considers a direct rival, so when they claim their rims are better built they must be taking a dig at Light Bicycle. Also, I'm not overly price sensitive at the moment so I'm not particularly swayed by a small cost saving. I'll have to think about that.

I don't mind if I have to change rotors, so that's not going to be an issue.

BloggingFit wrote:

Going to 1x10 set up is also a cheap way of reducing some weight and should only require a wide narrow chainring and clutch rear mech purchase. Your cranks also will be quite hefty so could save weight here as well.

As mentioned above, I'm not sure my legs are up to it yet. My thighs are in half after a day at BPW. Mind you, having broken a rib in a crash, I've been out of the saddle for three wheels so that might have something to do with how hard I found it on my legs. There's already a clutch on the back so it would be dead cheap if I did decide to go 1x10.

There was an E thirteen crank that I saw on the YT Wicked and liked which is very light so I might add that to the list.

BloggingFit wrote:

If you end up changing the cockpit set up due to the fork then the bar is another area as POAH suggests. Saddle and post are other areas if you don't happen to like the stock one - 100g here and there soon adds up but so does the cost.

As mentioned, carbon bars are on the shopping list. I'll probably get the Nukeproof carbons as I already put a Nukeproof saddle on there, so it all goes together. The KS Eten R dropper worked well at BPW but is, according to mbr, one of the heaviest on the market, so that's probably going to go in favour of a Reverb Stealth, which will also clean up the cabling a little.

Thanks for the comprehensive reply.

Chunkers1980

If its performance at BPW was what you are looking for then why are you wanting to change things?

Angus Young

Chunkers1980 wrote:

If its performance at BPW was what you are looking for then why are you wanting to change things?

To make it better.

Lewis A

Angus Young wrote:

To be honest, I'm not sure I'm going to be doing anything heroic enough to bottom out a Pike anyway so if the fork is not doing anything it might in that last bit of travel it probably doesn't matter.

If that's the case you may well have bought the wrong bike... If the wheels weigh 2200g then I'd upgrade them first...

Chunkers1980

So now you have second hand parts. Should have spent the money you're now spending on the bike out the shop.

Just ride and when things break or wear, upgrade otherwise I say you bought the wrong bike (level of spec on the frame)

And you're kidding yourself if you think (not saying you do, just personal experience) that if you buy a banging set of wheels you'll ever go back to the old ones if you keep them.

Angus Young

Lewis A wrote:

Angus Young wrote:

To be honest, I'm not sure I'm going to be doing anything heroic enough to bottom out a Pike anyway so if the fork is not doing anything it might in that last bit of travel it probably doesn't matter.

If that's the case you may well have bought the wrong bike... If the wheels weigh 2200g then I'd upgrade them first...

Actually, I should have qualified that with a 'for a while'. To be honest, I'm not sure I'm going to be doing anything heroic enough to bottom out a Pike for a while, so that's not something I have to worry about just yet.

Angus Young

Chunkers1980 wrote:

So now you have second hand parts. Should have spent the money you're now spending on the bike out the shop.

Just ride and when things break or wear, upgrade otherwise I say you bought the wrong bike (level of spec on the frame)

And you're kidding yourself if you think (not saying you do, just personal experience) that if you buy a banging set of wheels you'll ever go back to the old ones if you keep them.

I'm just going to ebay the parts. That should help a little towards the upgrades and I don't really want to end up with a shed full of spares which, as you say, I'll probably never use again and will just end up collecting dust. Can't even use the fork or wheels on my old bike as that's a rigid 26".

I did consider buying the DL but I'd only have ended up upgrading that (a Pike for starters) so I figured I might as well go for the cheaper model and upgrade that beyond the DL. Seems to make more sense in the end.

I'm under no illusions that the bike is beyond what I need at the moment (way beyond, probably! Lol!) but, hey, this is just a hobby so it's for fun. This is about what I want, not what I need.

Angus Young

By the way, any thoughts on leaving the Pike at 150 v reducing it to 140? Would 10mm make a whole lot of difference?

poah

also consider the manitou mattoc which can be spaced down to 140mm very easily. as for using all the travel, if you are not using all the travel with the way you ride you;ve not set up the fork correctly. I use all mine during my rides. if I was bottoming out all the time I would fit a token

Angus Young

Just read the Pinkbike review of the Manitou, looks very interesting.

Yes, you're right about using the travel. I'm probably downplaying things a little too much.

rockmonkeysc

The Mattock will make a very heavy 140mm fork.
Im sure 150mm will be fine on the Process.

Angus Young

RockmonkeySC wrote:

Im sure 150mm will be fine on the Process.

Am I right in thinking that the extra length would slacken the head angle a touch?

supersonic

About half a degree, static. Need to check with warranty people just to be on the safe side.

"The Mattock will make a very heavy 140mm fork."

The top end Mattoc is 16g heavier than a Pike (650b).

rockmonkeysc

A Pike is heavy for a 140mm fork!
I would go with a Revelation.

supersonic

4lbs? For that stiffness? It's only half a pound heavier than a SID with QR!!!

Dick Scruttock

A Pike is only about 80 grams heavier than a revelation, if that.

Angus Young

Rick Draper wrote:

A Pike is only about 80 grams heavier than a revelation, if that.

I think I can live with that.

jairaj

If you're not going to making the most out of a Pike then I would suggest looking at a RS Revelation or X fusion Slant. Both are available in 140mm and have good damping and should be available for less money than a RS Pike. They are more than capable of handling a bit of abuse from rough tracks and while not the absolute latest in damping technology they are still good and have decent adjustment options.

The Mattoc looks like a great fork and would be on my shortlist but has a wide verity of tuning options that a novice may not find easy to adjust. If you don't know what you are doing you can easily make the fork ride worse than one with more simple damper.

Regarding wheels, if you're thinking of going for the Superstar Carbon wheels then look into getting a set of Lightbike rims. Seen a few people reporting they have built up LB rims onto DT hubs for not much more than Superstar wheels. The Superstar hub is OK for the money, I was happy with my old set but I'd be wanting more quality on a non budget wheelset.


But I'm wondering if you would have been better of just getting the higher spec model? Its usual to change the odd component, saddle or stem to get the fit perfect. But changing the forks and wheels while the bike is still virtually new seems a little bit of a waste.

Angus Young

jairaj wrote:

If you're not going to making the most out of a Pike then I would suggest looking at a RS Revelation or X fusion Slant. Both are available in 140mm and have good damping and should be available for less money than a RS Pike. They are more than capable of handling a bit of abuse from rough tracks and while not the absolute latest in damping technology they are still good and have decent adjustment options.

My comments are a reflection of where I am now, plus I am probably downplaying things a little. I certainly hope I'll be using all of a Pike in the not too distant future and, as this bike is going to be with me for a very long time, it needs to be long term capable. With that in mind, I don't mind spending a few bob extra if it gets me what I really want.

jairaj wrote:

Regarding wheels, if you're thinking of going for the Superstar Carbon wheels then look into getting a set of Lightbike rims. Seen a few people reporting they have built up LB rims onto DT hubs for not much more than Superstar wheels. The Superstar hub is OK for the money, I was happy with my old set but I'd be wanting more quality on a non budget wheelset.

Yes, I've also seen the Light Bicycle wheels recommended over the Superstars on a number of occasions so they're certainly under consideration. What I do about wheels is giving me more brain ache than the rest of the upgrades put together!

jairaj wrote:

But I'm wondering if you would have been better of just getting the higher spec model? Its usual to change the odd component, saddle or stem to get the fit perfect. But changing the forks and wheels while the bike is still virtually new seems a little bit of a waste.

As mentioned, the higher spec model doesn't have the ideal spec so I would have been upgrading that anyway. So it makes sense to go for the cheaper model and upgrade beyond the DL spec, especially with the juicy discounts now available on the base model.

jairaj

If budget is an issue then I would still consider the Rev or Slant forks. Don't know what the latest price for Pikes are but a few months back Revs were ~£100 less than Pikes from European stores. There are lots of people still using these forks for All Mountain / Enduro type riding especially the Slant.

If budget isn't much of an issue then just go for Pikes, as mentioned earlier they are marginally heavier than Revs and much stiffer with new fancy damping too.

Angus Young

Although I like a bargain as much as the next guy and money isn't limitless, I don't mind a couple of hundred quid over if it gets me what I want. I'm not planning on doing this again any time soon so I want to get it right.

matthewhope

Hi guys, I am following this thread with interest as I am in exactly the same position. Bought the base 134 at a bargain price with a view to upgrading it above the DL over time. Wheel options are giving me the same headache! Am tempted by Light Bicycle with Hope hubs but not sure which to get.
"All mountain"
http://www.light-bicycle.com/beadless-c ... -27-5.html
Or these:
http://www.light-bicycle.com/carbon-mtb ... heels.html
which are decribed as "Downhill" but are 30mm wide instead of 35mm wide and weigh 145g less than the above "all mountain" ones. I would have thought that the first ones would be more downhill and these would be more all mountain. What am I missing??

Sounds like the Pike is the stand-out fork option. I like the sound of the Dual Position version. Ideally I would want 150mm with the option to drop to 120mm on the climbs (not sure if it is possible to get that in 650b though). I gather Dual Position only weighs an extra 50g. Any thoughts?

Finally, the worst question of all... my bike is Black/Gold. Shall I go for red bling or blue bling with the upgrades?!?

BloggingFit

matthewhope wrote:

Hi guys, I am following this thread with interest as I am in exactly the same position. Bought the base 134 at a bargain price with a view to upgrading it above the DL over time. Wheel options are giving me the same headache! Am tempted by Light Bicycle with Hope hubs but not sure which to get.
"All mountain"
http://www.light-bicycle.com/beadless-c ... -27-5.html
Or these:
http://www.light-bicycle.com/carbon-mtb ... heels.html
which are decribed as "Downhill" but are 30mm wide instead of 35mm wide and weigh 145g less than the above "all mountain" ones. I would have thought that the first ones would be more downhill and these would be more all mountain. What am I missing??

Sounds like the Pike is the stand-out fork option. I like the sound of the Dual Position version. Ideally I would want 150mm with the option to drop to 120mm on the climbs (not sure if it is possible to get that in 650b though). I gather Dual Position only weighs an extra 50g. Any thoughts?

Finally, the worst question of all... my bike is Black/Gold. Shall I go for red bling or blue bling with the upgrades?!?

The 30mm Rims are an older version suitable as a DH rim. They since released the 35mm version which has an updated fabrication process but targeted as All Mountain as that's the in thing at the moment. If you look down the options you can ask for a DH version where they add in a little more carbon for strength.

The 30mm will be lighter but as it's narrower it is more compact and in theory stronger ad a result if you compare to the 35mm version. Both versions will be more than capable for the bike.

matthewhope

Ah, great, thanks. If the 30mm rims are lighter and stronger, why would anyone go for the 35mm rims??

Which ones do you think would be the best option for me? I'm 90kg without any kit on and ride XC/trail sort of stuff (no hardcore downhill or big jumps etc). Thanks again!

BloggingFit wrote:

matthewhope wrote:

Hi guys, I am following this thread with interest as I am in exactly the same position. Bought the base 134 at a bargain price with a view to upgrading it above the DL over time. Wheel options are giving me the same headache! Am tempted by Light Bicycle with Hope hubs but not sure which to get.
"All mountain"
http://www.light-bicycle.com/beadless-c ... -27-5.html
Or these:
http://www.light-bicycle.com/carbon-mtb ... heels.html
which are decribed as "Downhill" but are 30mm wide instead of 35mm wide and weigh 145g less than the above "all mountain" ones. I would have thought that the first ones would be more downhill and these would be more all mountain. What am I missing??

Sounds like the Pike is the stand-out fork option. I like the sound of the Dual Position version. Ideally I would want 150mm with the option to drop to 120mm on the climbs (not sure if it is possible to get that in 650b though). I gather Dual Position only weighs an extra 50g. Any thoughts?

Finally, the worst question of all... my bike is Black/Gold. Shall I go for red bling or blue bling with the upgrades?!?

The 30mm Rims are an older version suitable as a DH rim. They since released the 35mm version which has an updated fabrication process but targeted as All Mountain as that's the in thing at the moment. If you look down the options you can ask for a DH version where they add in a little more carbon for strength.

The 30mm will be lighter but as it's narrower it is more compact and in theory stronger ad a result if you compare to the 35mm version. Both versions will be more than capable for the bike.

jairaj

Wider rims give the tyre a different profile, gives a more square profile compared to narrower rims. They burp less when running tubeless and allow you to run lower pressures with reduced squirm.

If the 30mm is stronger and lighter then personally I'd be more than OK with that. Its still wider than comparable rims designed for trail riding. I think the 35mm might be for super wide DH tyres which could be a bit too heavy and draggy for rides requiring you to pedal uphill.

BloggingFit

matthewhope wrote:

Ah, great, thanks. If the 30mm rims are lighter and stronger, why would anyone go for the 35mm rims??

Which ones do you think would be the best option for me? I'm 90kg without any kit on and ride XC/trail sort of stuff (no hardcore downhill or big jumps etc).

The 30mm will be more than adequate.

Regarding the Pike I would take the Solo Air option. At 150mm it's the only option and at that amount of travel I don't see the need for a dual position fork. I leave mine fully open all the time on rides and don't find issue with it on climbs.