New Ti bike to replace my 40 y/o Raleigh

EdH51

My former bike was a '73 Raleigh International. Liked it very much. Unfortunately, someone else liked it a bit more than I did; so I've been researching a replacement. I'm a bit of a noob at this (understatement) so I may need some (or, possibly, a lot) of help.

My decisions thus far:

• Kinesis GranFondo Ti v2 frame (& fork)
• Shimano Ultegra 6800 components
• wheels:
  • Velocity A23 & A23OC rims
  • DT Swiss 14/15/14 spokes & brass nipples
  • 32 spoke / 3-cross construction, front & rear
  • (undecided brand) 700x25c / 700x28c tubeless tires/tyres

The problem is that I've never built a bike before. I'm handy with tools so I'm not too much worried about that. And I'll order the wheels custom-built. However, looking at all the choices on the various web sites, I'm somewhat overwhelmed and not quite sure what it is I'm ordering. There often seem to be several versions of things; and their differences, while appearing insignificant in print, are, I suspect, awaiting the chance to bite me in the @$$/@r$e. Any advice greatly appreciated!

cattytown

In terms of choices there are two main factors - what fits and what you want. In terms of what fits you need to start from http://www.kinesisbikes.co.uk/technical/racelight/gf-ti for your frame. That tells you you need:
31.6 mm seat post
34.9 band-on front mech
68mm British BB

The big things there for groupset are the 34.9mm band-on front and the BB spec. They will normally be an option on ordering. Those are the need bits. From there you go to what you want - crank length, front ring choices (compact, standard or custom) and your choice of cassette.

Similarly the seat post - as long as it is 31.6 you are OK - your choice of alloy, Carbon or Titanium, straight or set back.

Bar and stem need to suit each other - the thing there is clamp size. There are two main choices 25.4 and 31.8 mm.

Things like seatpost and stem, it might be wort buying cheap ones that will do while you get fit sorted, then get the nice ones you like later.

Hope that helps a little,
Paul.

EdH51

Thanks, Paul. I appreciate your advice. I'm making a 130 mile trip today (by automobile) to a bike shop to be "custom fitted." They perch me upon a bike simulator and stretch me until I fit, then tell me how much my bits and pieces must shrink or grow for biking standards. From this, I gather I'm to be given all the various numbers needed to make most of the "fit" decisions for the new bike.

In spite of choosing a titanium frame, I'm not specifically trying to create an ultra-light finished product. I'm more interested in quality, stability, longevity and low maintenance. Gearing ratios are essentially a non-issue. I live on a coastal plain. A "mountain" near my home is all of 3 feet tall and its slope is a steep 3 degrees. Where I have a choice of clamp sizes, I'll probably opt for larger on the premise that a bigger clamp is likely to be the stronger option with great holding power and less need of readjustment over time.

cattytown

No problem - you will probably want to look at something like 11-25 cassette then! I am on 11-32 as I do have hills :-)

The fit info will help greatly to get stem size etc.

In terms of bar clamp - there is also the deda 35mm - I deliberately didn't mention that as it is a bit niche yet. have ridden 35 and it just felt a little chunky.

I know what you mean about Ti - I have just built around a Ti frame with SRAM F22 for similar reasons.

styxd

Is there any specific reason you've chosen the Kinesis? THere are lots of good frame builders in the states, you could get something custom for a similar price I'd imagine.

EdH51

I wanted a traditional, non-racing, "relaxed" metal road frame: an update of my old Raleigh. Back when I bought it, I had first looked at the Raleigh Professional, their top of the line model. However, I didn't like the forced aero positioning. I'm a lazy, casual rider. The International offered a quality, light-weight bike that was much more comfortable to ride. Its competition from other brands were typically 50% heavier, or more, and had lower quality components in their builds.

In looking for a replacement, I discovered that as the components included in the package got nicer, the bike geometry veered rapidly towards the old Raleigh Professional. The current competition for the old International, for the most part, seem to be heavier and built up with low(er)-end parts, just like 40 years ago. Why must the designers and builders assume that if I'm willing to pay more money for a lighter weight machine and higher quality components that I automatically want to compete in sprints with my head buried between my knees?

Trek has a series aimed at the commuter except that its higher-end models have tighter geometry. Why? Don't they have enough racing bike models? Marin had a very high-end hybrid model that apparently didn't sell well, so its been discontinued. The current version weighs nearly 35 pounds.

Frame builders are doing all sorts of things with carbon these days; but I don't want a carbon frame. The alloy frames in the class of bike I wanted seem, for the most part, designed much like their high-end brand-named bicycles. Tight, fast and sleek. I'm looking for regal, relaxed and graceful.

Then I discovered a review of the Kinesis GF (non-Ti version) which led to the titanium version and its 2nd incarnation: exactly what the doctor ordered! I'm sure I could have a frame builder create what I want; but why, when Kinesis has already done it?

I understand that there are several brands that now have relaxed geometry frames among their lineups; but no one seems to have informed the LBS's in the southern Atlantic area of what used to be your colonies. Around here, I get, "You want what? Why? You crazy? That's just stupid! Waste of money!" (As they ride off into the setting sun on their cracked carbon frames held together with duct tape and their heads buried firmly between their knees.)

I chose the GF Ti/2 because it's what I found that fit my requirements and it seems to have gotten rave reviews.

styxd

I see your point. Have you bought the frame yet? Or will you choose what you want after your bike fit? Another good option is the Genesis Equilibrium.

Or get a custom from a good frame builder. Check out Dave Kirk, Andy Hampsten, Mike Zanconato, Tom Kellog. Those a few names of fthe top of my head, but they'd build you something suitable I'd imagine. They'd also fit you aswell.

alan_sherman

Have you checked out the lynksey sportive (or disc version too). I don't know the geometry offhand but it fills a similar slot to the Kenesis. Being made in the US I'd hope it is a relatively good deal for you.

EdH51

I hadn't found Lynksey. I've compared their "Sportive" model and, size for size, its wheelbase is about 4cm shorter. It appears to hold true to the American idea of a high-end "sportive" frame: keep the racing frame geometry but allow for the next size wider tire. In this case, without fenders installed, it can handle 700x28c tires. With fenders, you are limited to 700x23c on the front and 700x25c on the rear. The head tube is significantly shorter (~20%). Effective top-tube length is 2.5cm shorter. In short, however much relaxed it may be, it's a lot less relaxed than the GF Ti/2. The Lynksey frame most like the GF Ti/2 is their Viale touring frame; however, it's not an accurate match, either.

Thus far, the the Kinesis GF Ti/2 (and its non-Ti incarnation) is the only frame I've found essentially similar to the old Raleigh International I liked so well. Thanks for the suggestion, though.

jordan_217

I currently own an Enigma. The Kinesis GF was on my short list when I bought my Enigma but I couldn't get a test ride. I've ridden the GF (mk1) since and defo would have bought that over my Enigma. It's a lovely bike to ride and to look at. It just felt a little bit more snappy and responsive over my Enigma, but that could be down to forks and finishing kit.

If I was in the market for an off the peg Ti bike, the Kinesis GF would be my choice.

I personally wouldn't touch Lynskey. I know if you search enough forums you'll find complaints about anything and everything but Lynskey build quality seems to be a little bit more suspect than others.

The frame and spec of the bike look good to me. Ultegra is a good groupset but IME doesn't' really add anything over 105. I'd personally opt for 105 and with the money saved, invest more in the wheels. It might be worth asking a local wheel builder to recommend something.

I personally like the spec of that bike and think it will be lovely to ride. IIRC the velocity rims are quite wide so twinned with a Ti frame, the ride will be super plush. Great for mile munching.

styxd

Go for Archetype rims over velocity. Stiffer, stronger, better build quality.

EdH51

Unfortunately, there is no local bike store where I live. The nearest "pretend" LBS is about 35 miles away and sell little more than one would find at a mass market retailer or the local hardware store. It's not a pretty picture.

So, off to the big city, in my case, a 130 mile trek (forgive the pun) to Richmond, Virginia. There are several bicycle stores there, including a franchise of a national chain. I visited them all and settled on one that seemed properly geeky with lots of bikes and lots of spare parts hanging around -- not to mention that Michelin Men were well represented. (Have they no shame?) I envy you young, athletic whippersnappers: you can carry off spandex with aplomb -- I intend to do the fashion world a favor and wear baggies. They also had someone set up with the Retül fit system. I drank the kool-aid, paid my money, and now have a sheet explaining in Swahili with footnotes in Cuneiform that I need a bike with square wheels. Reminded me of a visit to the optometrist (as he flips back and forth between lenses): now is this a little better; or is it a little worse.

Actually, it was kind of fun. I sat on some dozen different saddles and liked none of them as well as my ancient Brooks (hate the thought of breaking in a new one) and tried lots of handlebars, pedals & shoes. I may not know what I want but I've quite definite ideas about what I don't. I'm probably their worst nightmare. Regardless, they were polite, answered most of my questions, and were most helpful. I'm anointing them the dubious honor of being my official LBS, despite their (or is it me) being geographically undesirable. And I will, over time, make numerous purchases from them to reward their putting up with my presence.

After straddling numerous bikes -- not to mention the Retül fit -- I discovered that I have a shorter inside leg (isn't that what you Brits call an inseam?) and longer torso than is average for my height, resulting in most of the bikes that are a proper fit for my legs having my head arriving at my destination a good half an hour before the rest of my body. This explains my love affair with my old International: Both it's top tube and wheelbase were about an inch and a half longer than those of the more expensive Professional model which I had first chosen -- just enough so to accommodate my distorted anatomy. I'm confident that the Kinesis GF Ti/2 is a reasonable choice (we dialed in all its tube lengths and angles into the Retül contraption (Rube Goldberg (US) / Heath Robinson (UK) is alive and well), and with some minor adjustments of seat height, stem length and handlebar angle, it was quite comfortable.

I've ordered many of the components, including wheels, and will be making final choices for the rest before the end of the month. I'll post again as progress is made.

EdH51

Orders are complete. A few items have already arrived; however, most are in transit (several were back-ordered but should be back in stock shortly). Here's the shopping list:

• Kinesis RaceLight GranFondo Ti v2 51cm frame, Tracer 1.5 carbon fork & FSA No 42-CF-ACB tapered headset
• Ritchey 4-axis adjustable stem (120mm); WCS EvoCurve handlebar (42cm) and Cinelli Gel Cork bar tape (all black)
• Ritchey WCS TT (1-bolt) adjustable seat post (31.6mm x 350mm) and Brooks B17 narrow saddle (all black)
• Shimano Ultegra 6800 shifters; crankset (170mm 52-36T); cassette (11-28T); front (34.9) & rear (SS) derailleurs; and chain (& a missing-link kit)
• Shimano BR-R650 long-reach brake calipers, front & rear
• Phil Wood 68mm "English" bottom bracket (HollowTech II replacement)
• Shimano Ultegra 6800 front & rear hubs (both 32H); Velocity A23 & A23OC rims; DT Swiss Competition spokes (3-cross lacing) & brass nipples and Schwalbe One 700x28c tubeless tires (all black)
• Shimano Deore XT PD-T780 pedals and SH-M088LE (45/E wide) shoes
• Odds & ends, including helmet, gloves, clothing, a new pump, CO2 inflater & cartridges, a few tools and books on bicycle maintenance

I can hardly wait to get everything & get it all put together. Once I've acclimated to the new ride, I'll replace the adjustable stem & seat post with ones appropriate to my dimensions & comfort.

metronome

Pics when it's built ? The frame you have picked is lovely.

ti_yred

Looking forward to seeing it William!

EdH51

Yes, certainly, pics of the parts, of the build, itself, as well as of the finished project -- that is, if I manage to figure out which end is upside-down & backwards and manage to fit all the bits in place with no left-overs. And then there are all the special tools.... I'm already suspecting my GF Ti/2 will need a major tuneup & alignment by a professional before I dare ride it.

keezx

EdH51 wrote:

[*]Shimano Ultegra 6800 shifters; crankset (170mm 52-36T); cassette (11-28T); front (34.9) & rear (SS) derailleurs; and chain (& a missing-link kit)

Just curiosity:
I allways wonder why people choose a cassette which starts at 11T.
Completely useless for 99% of recreational cyclists and useless for 90% of the regional racers, and throwing away 1 useful cog.

PS , would like too pictures of the buildup, since I built myself a titanium bike 2 years ago from a Chinese custom titanium frame...
Made my first testride the day after I recieved the frame (thanks to lots of experience...)

EdH51

Actually, I made myself a gear ratio chart spreadsheet and fiddled with all possible combinations. I ruled out the 11-23 and 11-32 immediately. Then I decided I'd like to keep the 28. That meant I had one choice only. Had Shimano offered a 12-28, I'd have taken it. I suppose I could buy the individual cogs and assemble the cassette myself; however, I've enough to deal with as it is with parts accumulating all around me.

I did opt for the 52-36 crankset chain rings rather than the 53-39 set, figuring it a better match with the 11-28. I even considered the 50-34 but decided against it.

I'll be out of town for a week on a project (and visiting LBSs in the area) beginning Tuesday. I'm hoping most of the gear arrives while I'm gone. However, I'm scheduled to be away a total of three weeks during October so build time may be limited.

keezx

Really stupid , no 12-28....
IF you have to deal with an 11, in my opinion 48x36 would make more sense since the chain moves to the left on the "big" ring.

EdH51

Just pretend you have a 10-speed, 12-28, with an extra bit of smaller toothy metal as an end cap.

keezx

Don't like that kind of solution, that's the reason I still ride 9 speed.....Campa with all loose cogs.

EdH51

It's been a little over 2 weeks since I placed my initial orders. Many of the items have arrived. A couple items that were on back order have just been shipped. And, thanks to assistance here on the forums, I've found the tires (Schwalbe One tubeless 700x28c) I wanted ... due to arrive shortly.

I've made a couple of changes and a minor addition: I've ordered a Cane Creek 110-series headset to replace the FSA model that was included with the frameset. I didn't like the feel of the synthetic cork handlebar wrap so I've ordered black leather. And I found a current version of the brake extension levers I had on my old Raleigh (admittedly lame, but I liked them): Cane Creek's aluminum alloy cross-top brake levers.

I'm going to be away, again, wrapping up a project. By the time I return, everything will have arrived and I can begin assembly. I've been like a 5-y/o on Christmas morning opening packages and examining their contents. This is fun!

cattytown

Little tip - first assembly use the tape you don't like - you may need to reposition shifters a little to get them in *just* the right place for you.

Enjoy the build.

Paul.

EdH51

Thanks, Paul, I'll do that: especially now that I have 4 levers (the ST-6800 shifters and the extra CC cross-top brake levers) to position.