Handbuilt wheels - Help with spoke and rim choice please

Stevo C

Hi

I'm after some advice on rim and spoke choice for some new wheels please. I already have the hubs - Dura-Ace 9000 (24h/28h). I weigh 85kg and they'll be used on the best bike - so longish rides, mainly in the south-east and the occassional event.

1. Rims - I've agonised long and hard about this, but haven't found anything better than the Archetype - I've considered Velocity A23, Pacenti SL23, XC279 etc. Is there one I've missed?

2. Spokes - Sapim CX-Ray or Sapim Race (Race are £76 cheaper), or Sapim Laser front & Sapim Laser/Race on the back

3. Lacing - 2X/2X or Radial/2X

thanks in advance

Steve

twgh

I have almost the exact build as you are looking at DA9000 24/28 on Archetypes with Race/Laser spokes built by Ugo. They are nice wheels - the extra width of the rim is noticeable especially when cornering. I have done 3000+km on them and they are still running brilliantly. I think for the money they are a great investment.

I got shunted by a black cab which put the rear wheel out of true - because the spokes were not fancy it was very easy to get them trued and I was back on the road in know time.

If I did it again I may go for Pacenti but that is purely for aesthetical reasons.

ugo.santalucia

You are quite well built and would benefit from a full DT Competition rear, both sides... they taper is a different way from the Sapim Race and build very marginally stiffer... worth the extra in your case. DT Alpine 3 would be even better, but they won't fit the Dura Ace narrow holes. Front Sapim Laser, DT Revs, virtually the same thing. The CX ray are mostly a PITA with no benefit. Get them silver, black spokes age and look crap, silver stainless spokes always look brand new... but your call. Self build?

cycleclinic

On the point of stiffness of the DT comp and sapim race there is no difference. I have a load cell I can secure a spoke to while it is fixed at the other end and load to say 1200N. I have tired this with a DT comp and sapim Race and 1200N on the DT Swiss Tensio is 1.97 on the gauge exactly. So the difference in the butting make no difference. In all praticial terms they are the same spoke with identical performace (at least from my measurements). I have this so I can calibrate the various gauges I have for different spokes.

There is no better all round rim than the archetype that why they sell so well.

85kg is not that heavy. While Sapim race spokes in a 28H drilling archetype rims with DA 9000 rear hub will give a very stiff wheel it turns out building with lasers or CX-rays the wheel with DA hub is still very stiff. Stiff enough in fact it would take daft power outputs (or alot of sideloading) to get any meaningful flex and it flex that kills wheels mostly. The one advantage of using race or comp spokes on the rear or at leat the DS is the increase in torsional stiffness. this inproves power transfer which I don't worry about much but it does reduce the tension changes in the spokes when a rider put down power, this extends spoke life a bit and reduces the stress on the rim too. So my general rule of thumb is (which seem to work) laser or CX-rays both sides for rider under 85kg but very powerful riders over 80kg or riders over 85kg get sapim race DS and laser NDS. Riders over 90kg get a 32 spoke rear with sapim race both sides.

I would agree though that unless you are racing CX-rays are waste of money and even then I am not sure. Give you a hint my Pacenti SL23/royce wheels are built with lasers front/NDS rear and race spokes DS rear kind of inbetween my rules of thumb so I went on the cautious side. These are low spoke count (20F/24R) racing wheels though and so absurbly stiff that they work very well.

The other thing to consider is your riding style. If you rock the bike alot when putting down power and have tendancy to kill wheels then using the stiffer spoke on the rear is not a bad thing. If you however sit and spin up the hill or stand up and keep the bike upright then the sideloading the wheel experiences is much lower, so flex is reduced meaning you can get away with more.

Either way if you are building yourself you need to decide this for yourself, if you are getting them built then go with what the wheel builder is comfortable with, ugo and I differ a bit on this with regards as to what we are comfortable with it does not mean one of us is wrong or one more right as the wheels we have both suggested will perform very similarly in fact I would say they would perform practicaly the same.

Stevo C

Thanks for the advice chaps, much appreciated. I'll think it'll be Archetype rims (hard anodised grey) silver sapim spokes (laser front, laser/race rear) and brass nipples. I've recently built a couple of sets of wheels myself, so I'm going to be doing this myself.

thanks

Steve

cycleclinic

I hope you are using silver hubs as that would look lush. Look at the novatec A171/F172 or ambrosio Zenith (same hub) they come in silver and are resonably priced and decent. Otherwise silver hubs get expensive - royce for example.

Stevo C

I've already got the DA9000 hubs - so black hubs, silver spokes and dark grey rims - an eclectic mix!

maddog 2

I'd go black spokes myself. I have 5 year old wheels and they are still smart in black. But hey, it's your aesthetic.

EdH51

I'm about to order a set of wheels with Ultegra 6800 hubs, Velocity A23 & A23OC rims, DT Swiss Competition spokes & brass nipples. I'm going with 32 spokes / 3-cross, front & rear; but I about 105kg and going for strength over light weigh.