Kids 24" Full suspension build

macbikes

Great to see this. I having been looking at the 20" version of one of these bikes wondering if it would be a good base for a build.

Yakboy

Well Christmas has been and gone so I thought I would give you an update of how it all went. My daughter is delighted with the bike. Below are a couple of pics of the Boxing day ride at Dalby. She is not used to a cross bar so there were a few comedy fall off moments but she can't believe how well proper suspension works and can roll over obstacles so much better with bigger wheels. Just bring on the sunny weather!!





Sorry the photo's aren't of better quality but I am better at video's than photo's!!

dirkpitt74

Cracking build!
Glad to see it being enjoyed.
Hoping to build something similar for my lad this year.

Where did you get the cranks shortened?

Angus Young

You should build kids bikes as a sideline...

johnski

Cool, doing the same project on the boys (Detonate) version of your girls bike! Got 80mm fox's on the front, may reduce down to 60mm though.

What length shock did you use? I'm looking for a 6 inch / 150mm shock but not many around. Think a 165mm may work with some sag?

dirkpitt74

How are the 80mm forks working out?
Looking for a pair for my lads Blast - did it make much difference to the height of the front?

Acnescar

I'm just starting out on a re-build of a Carreara Detonate 24". I got one on Fleabay that was described as 'good condition' but in reality was poorly assembled with no grease anywhere and then seemingly stored in the rain for its life.

Been a challenge to strip it down but bar the hubs its now pretty much in its component parts and the rear linkages are now assembled so they move I reckon for the first time in its life.

I've got 2 kids at 10 and 12 and I'm gonna build it up with more of a downhill slant as Aston Hill Downhill Center is only 5 minutes from the house and they both have Isla bikes for XC.

My old Orange Sub5 is going to be the donor bike and I think most stuff will fit bar the shock. I've got a 165/35 air shock I've ordered up and it should just fit and give nearly 75mm travel on the rear wheel if it works.

All I've got up front are the Fox 140 air shocks I've got on the sub5 - The head angle is pretty slack and when I get the rear shock on I'll dry fit it and measure it up against my other bikes to see if its too slack.

My only big worry is all my cranksets are 170mm and I think shortening them myself is beyond me and I cant really stretch to a new custom 140 set.

Its going to be hopefully 1x9 with a bash and chain device to keep it simple.

I'll get some pics up when i work out how to do it and I've got the rear shock fitted.

Now to go have a rummage in my old spares boxes.

Acnescar

Rear shock came today - just had to drop it in and try the forks - dunno about my kids but I'm getting excited now!

Doesnt look too slack to me - as the shock is about 15mm longer than the original coil spring and has a 40mm stroke it seems in keeping with the 140's on the front. It just fits though its gonna be tight routing the brake and gear lines to the rear as they run under the top tube.

Will post up some more as I get time to add bits on.

poah

140mm forks on a bike that comes with 60mm as standard - have you got dental insurance for your kids?

Acnescar

why?

RevellRider

The extra length from the longer fork will put extra stress on the headtube due to the increase in the leverage. Plus it will make the bike handle like a pig, raising the bb and slackening the seat angle.

Yakboy

Hello Again,

Thought I'd bring you an update of how things are going with the bike. Sorry for not replying earlier but I don't seem to be getting notifications from this thread (does anybody know how to turn them on :?: )

Anyway a few questions to answer

DirkPitt74

The 140mm cranks were a bit of an internet find..there are people who will shorten and drill cranks but they usually want £100 for doing so, I found these which had been shortened by one of the better known crank shortners in an online retrobike store and got them for £40

The Fox 80mm forks are working out excellently. They do lay the bike back a bit but not much and my daughter can't believe how good air forks are compared to springs. They are run at low PSI (about 70 ).

Acnescar..Well done for taking on the challenge but I can see a few problems..firstly from the pic of your bike the bottom bracket is really high. Your rear shock is just too long as the pivot is not horizontal..My Manitou shock is 155mm and that is really the longest you can get away with. I considered a 160mm but after much measuring decided it was too long.

I tend to agree you have too much travel on the front..

Anyway a progress report..

A few problems. My daughter struggles with the front thumbshifter changing up from granny ring to middle, it's just too stiff. The X3 shifters are not really the best. Since going 1x10 I have a spare XO front shifter which I may try...The front derailleur is a cheap one and is not much cop so I'm wondering if I can get one that gives more mechanical advantage and lighten the shifting action for her.

The rear shock (Manitou S-Type) whilst it's the right size and was N.O.S (although about 7 -8 years old) is just not returning to full height and has a slight oil leak from the rebound screw. I think the seals have perished as it has obviously sat on a shelf for many years. A full set of seals is only £10 from CRC but having downloaded the servicing PDF, it's just beyond my comfort zone so need to try and find someone to service them (someone has suggested TF Tuned..any experience?). I am keen to keep the shock as it is light, and the right size and 155mm shocks are very thin on the ground.

Other than these problems ( Oh and plasticoat does not last well on cranks!!), everything else is working well and my daughter is loving her new bike..can't wait to get the rear shock working better then she can really let it fly

dirkpitt74

Yakboy wrote:

Hello Again,
.......

DirkPitt74

The 140mm cranks were a bit of an internet find..there are people who will shorten and drill cranks but they usually want £100 for doing so, I found these which had been shortened by one of the better known crank shortners in an online retrobike store and got them for £40

The Fox 80mm forks are working out excellently. They do lay the bike back a bit but not much and my daughter can't believe how good air forks are compared to springs. They are run at low PSI (about 70 ).

........

Other than these problems ( Oh and plasticoat does not last well on cranks!!), everything else is working well and my daughter is loving her new bike..can't wait to get the rear shock working better then she can really let it fly

Thanks for the update - much appreciated.

I picked up a Carrera Blast24 for my lad which I'm just about to refurb (£25 from ebay!).
Also managed to score a pair of Fox FL80's locally for £50.
The Blast has already got Deore cable brakes and thumb shifters fitted so that's saved me hunting round for something.
I measured the A-C on the RST's and the Fox and the Fox's are about 15mm taller at the moment so should be fairly close once set up properly.

Thanks for posting you build and progress - it's given me a few hints, tips and ideas.

Will post my Lads build in the next few days once I get started properly!.

Yakboy

Got the rear shock working properly at last . Went into by LBS to ask advice and they were going to send it to hotlines for a refurb (£75 cost) So took the shock off tonight. Let some air out of the lower chamber and there was a sudden "pop" and all of a sudden the shock seemed to loosen up. (I think the fact it has been sitting in as box for 7 years has something to do with it) Then with the shock off I noticed the linkage was very stiff on the pivot, so loosened it off and oiled it. Put the shock back on and blow me it works amazingly

Not only have I saved £75 but the thing actually woirks really well and at low pressure so should suit my daughter..can't wait to get to Dalby now and let her rip it up over some rooty sections so she can enjoy the delights of a FS bike.

So next job is to try and lighten the front shifter up...any idea's anyone :?: :?: :?:

TheGava

Hey Yakboy, I'm just in the process of rebuilding a Giant XTC 20in 2012 for my 5yr old boy and was looking at upgrading to the SRAM x3 shifter x4 rear mech (7speed). After reading your post above regarding x3 shifters being stiff how is your daughter finding the rear one? I may just buy another revoshiftsr to replace the very worn one on it currently! Or go for the Altus M310 shifter...

Great build by the way, it's good that dad's/mums are putting the effort in to helping our little ones get their bikes lighter/better etc so they enjoy hitting the trails!

poah

front shifters are never going to be that light in action as they have to move a significant distance and tend to have a strong spring. assuming the cables are not new then I would replace them.

Yakboy

TheGava wrote:

After reading your post above regarding x3 shifters being stiff how is your daughter finding the rear one? I may just buy another revoshiftsr to replace the very worn one on it currently! Or go for the Altus M310 shifter...

The X3 rear shifters are fine although I would say that on her previous 20" bike (also a Giant) we had Altus M310 shifters and they are far superior (lighter and a better action) to the X3 shifters but of course you can't mix sram and shimano on rear shifter/ derailleur combinations (OK on the front though))

johnski

If you are considering this build be aware that a Shock with the right 150mm i2i length are like hens teeth. Spent three months scouring ebay and forums but finally got one and a reasonable price. As has been said before with the stock shock you would be better with a hardtail. One alternative is the KS A5-RR1 (99usd) that looks ok dual air set up, but unsure about future servicing and ships from China so long lead time. There is a cheaper KS shock but the spec is for air spring with 'friction' damping ?
http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product ... 6831.html#!
There seems to be limited availability on good 24 inch tyres, just ordered some Rocket Rons at £40 a pair inc shipping is not bad, here:
https://www.bike-components.de/en/Schwa ... 15-p40633/

Yakboy

johnski wrote:

If you are considering this build be aware that a Shock with the right 150mm i2i length are like hens teeth.

You're not kidding, I am starting to appreciate how lucky I was to find the Manitou shock. Good find on the KS shock and a good price. Looks to be a similar type to the Manitou although I don't know how easy it would be to service them. But a 155mm is the longest you can get away with and I'm afraid Acnescar's shock set up just looks dangerous and I hope he changes to a shorter shock.

So latest update. Changed the Sram x3 front shifter to a Shimano Altus m310 shifter and it hasn't really made much difference, still very heavy on the thumb...so I'm off to pose the question of lighter shifters on retrobike and see if we can get an old XT or XTR with more mechanical advantage.

dm1672

Sorry for the hijack...


Just finished my lads rebuild

New parts rear xt mech,Deore shifter,chain,clarks exo brakes,suntour epicon air forkwith remote lockout,full bearing change and powder coat frame,stem and bars with new clarks grips for £4 and Isis bottom bracket

Had a spare 9 speed cassette lying around it used to be and 8x2 just 9x1 now

Bought a fox float old prototype of ebay ages ago for £30,much better than the fox vanilla coil that was on it

Shimano rear hub with sunringle rim new bearings and axle fitted,front wheel halo combat,bought the rear combat as well but it won't take a disc as it takes an old 165mm ..standard 160 won't fit.

New to bike bought 2nd hand.. picked up a e thirteen chain device for a tenner on ebay,raceface narrow wide 34t ring & hope headset from pinkbike had dmr v8's and original hussefelt crank that was on it.

It ran a 26" fork marzzochi exr pro as standard so 26" epicon was a lighter air fork




http://s308.photobucket.com/user/subsea ... t=3&page=1

Yakboy

Bit of an update:
Decided to tackle the front derailleur problem. Had an old M737 XT front mech but it was 34.9 and the seatpost is 31.8 but discovered that shimano make plastic reducers..so £4.50 later fitted this:



And boy what a difference, is 3/4 less effort to shift up..very pleased. The bike is working very well. I definitely think we need a better spread of gears at the back , so next task is to see if a 9 speed cassette will fit, there looks to be plenty of room. The plastidip has been a mistake on the cranks but will probably get them powder coated.
I also fitted wider bars to my wife's bike so Eleanor got her Bontrager bars which are a little wider.

Took my daughter to Newbridge Park in Pickering (an excellent volunteer made community bike park in an old quarry) and she did her first real steep stuff. The cable discs seem to be either off or on with little attenuation( so we had some back wheel locking and some impressive slides!!) so if she keeps at it hydraulics may be in order. It was a real joy to see her floating over rocks and roots with the suspension. I really think there is a gap in the market for a reasonably price full suspension 24" bike. I have been looking if you could get new frames from China as Carrera have stopped making the detonate and sol and costing how much making a new bike from scratch would be.
Anyway that may be a dream so I'll leave you with the current state of the bike.

rfhspares

What length eye to eye is the rear shock on these ?

Yakboy

It's 150mm. I am in the process of setting up a company making 20" and 24" kids full suspension bikes using these frames and have a stock of 150 air shocks. My daughter has grown out of this bike now (she now has a 140 travel 27.5" bike...she's nearly faster than me), so I am dismantling the bike and some components are available.

dirkpitt74

Yakboy wrote:

It's 150mm. I am in the process of setting up a company making 20" and 24" kids full suspension bikes using these frames and have a stock of 150 air shocks. My daughter has grown out of this bike now (she now has a 140 travel 27.5" bike...she's nearly faster than me), so I am dismantling the bike and some components are available.

Sounds interesting!
Good luck with your venture - let us know the details.

Yakboy

Watch this space...it's taken an age to source components. Just getting Logo's and stickers made up but have a demo 20" ready. I'll post pics once I get the final logo

lettingthedaysgoby

Yakboy wrote:

Watch this space...it's taken an age to source components. Just getting Logo's and stickers made up but have a demo 20" ready. I'll post pics once I get the final logo

Can’t wait to see the results...

Yakboy

20" demo bike now done if you look in Family cycling section

Rascal1

Yakboy, i have read your daughters build thread with interest.
I am too attempting to set up a Carrera Detonate for my son.
I see that you mention that you planned to dismantle, if so, are there any parts still available?

Thanks,

Yakboy

Let me know what you need. I now have new rear airshocks too. The cranks may be avaliable but I have been using suntour jr xct cranks on my younger daughters carrera luna which work well. I have plenty of X3 shifters avaliable. And may consider selling the dropper post I put on the bike eventually. I have been using Spinner 300 air forks on the Luna which again work well. If you need any advice on what does and doesn't work let me know.