Hivemind - heating - houseshare fairness

Ben6899

The discussion about banning high power kettles, vacuum cleaners and toasters reminded me of something I need to broach. I think I'm in the right, but I'd like others' opinions before I go ahead and have the discussion.

One of my housemates works from home most of the week. He doesn't look after himself very well and hence feels the cold like my late grandparents did. Rather than wearing a sweater, he prefers to wear a t shirt and put on the heating.

Winter is on the way and his working from home will result in the day-long heating of the house whereas if no one was at home, the heating would be on about 6pm-10pm. I am going to call a house meeting and suggest he pays a larger proportion of the gas bill - probably 33% rather than the current equal share of 20%.

Is this a reasonable/fair idea/suggestion?

drlodge

Seems fair to me, you should pay for (roughly) what you use.

t4tomo

alternatively kill him and burn him to heat the house in the evenings?

I have no sympathy for non jumper wearing shiverers

verylonglegs

Sounds like you are giving him more than a fair deal, especially as he can't be bothered to dress appropriately for the time of year.

drlodge

I would prepare yourself with some facts to support your case, for example why you think increasing his portion from 20% to 33% is reasonable (the other 66% would then get split 4 ways?

Heating 6-10pm is 4 hours, an additional period of 9-6pm (9 hours) is substantially more than the 4 hours heating you'd expect and it might be he should pay quite an considerable premium for day time heating.

Do you have the heating bills from last winter? if so, you could go the route of saying...you expect the heating bill to be £xxx based on last winters usage and considering any price increases, so any consumption more than this should be paid for by this person. You could also take meter readings morning and evening for a period of time which will show exactly what the consumption is.

Ben6899

As ever, very sound ideas from DrLodge!

Yes, in my example, the remaining 66% would be split 4-ways between the jumper-wearing members of the house who are at the office all day.

drlodge

Ben6899 wrote:

As ever, very sound ideas from DrLodge!

Yes, in my example, the remaining 66% would be split 4-ways between the jumper-wearing members of the house who are at the office all day.

Thank you :-) So Mr jumperless pays twice what the remaining residents pay...sounds reasonable given my rough calculations.

mangetout_rodney

I so, so, so don't miss house-sharing.

Ben6899

Sevendeadly wrote:

I so, so, so don't miss house-sharing.

This is why I'm on the verge of buying a flat! I'm just getting prepared in case there's a delay.

homers_double

I work from work, MrsHD works from home. I bought her a log burner and an axe a few years ago, its seems to have worked well and I've so far survived the axe.

bernithebiker

If Ukraine gets any nastier, lots of 'I don't give a sh*t how much gas I use' people are going to get a nasty shock.

If Putin turns the gas taps off to Europe, prices will rocket. There simply isn't enough in the North Sea to go round.*

And yes, you're 100% right to pin the extra on this guy, just don't expect it to be easy.....!

(and I would hide your Marmite and teabags too, who knows what he gets up to in the day....)

*fortunately we can now import supertankers of LNG into Wales (from Qatar), which helps, but it's still not enough.

pinno

[Hypothetical] If cave man puts the heating on all day, then surely the heating doesn't need to be on quite so high during the 6-10pm period as the house is already warm and has gained some thermal momentum. The heating is also being subsidised by cooking, the number of people and washing/having showers (I presume that you do have showers/baths) during the evening.

The hypothetical is made a little bit easier to figure out if you simply take a meter reading before cave man gets up and then another meter reading at 6pm and then 10pm. That will give you the split.
CMC= MRX + 33% of MRY. Simples.

*CMC - Cave man contribution, MR - Meter Reading, X - daytime, Y - evening reading.

VTech

From personal experience, tread very carefully.
If he can show that your actions have made him feel the need to move you can be in for a huge claim to be made against you.
Law isn't fair and although I agree with your principle, I've found principles can be costly. I have a remnant who isn't paying rent yet I can't just kick them out ! If I were at a hotel and didn't pay I would be out and if I didn't want to move they would call the police who would immediately act.

It all depends on the type of person he is and how secure you feel in him not making a claim at a later date. Of course this inset worst case scenario but it is worth me pointingb
Out as I've seen good honest people fall victim of this.

A very nice girl on the face of it was asked to pay more electricity as she was studying from home in a house share. She was with 3 other girls and everything seemed fine at first. She agreed to pay more and a few months later left. Soon after a claim came in for forceful ejection from a property. I'm. It sure of the exact wording but she made out that she was forced out of the home. She ended up with just under £10,000 in compensation.

The alternative of course is to do it through a solicitor but they will take you to the cleaners and you will only be told what you already know.

Tread carefully, I'm serious about this as I hate the "claim age" we are in and wouldn't want you to go through unnecessary agro.

rolf_f

VTech wrote:

A very nice girl on the face of it was asked to pay more electricity as she was studying from home in a house share. She was with 3 other girls and everything seemed fine at first. She agreed to pay more and a few months later left. Soon after a claim came in for forceful ejection from a property. I'm. It sure of the exact wording but she made out that she was forced out of the home. She ended up with just under £10,000 in compensation.

That's not the whole story is it? It reads like a headline from an article in the Daily Mail. The sort of thing deliberately written to get the foolish to start cursing the nanny state, political correctness gone mad, Brussels etc which, when you actually look at the facts, turns out to be entirely reasonable.

Pross

Ben6899 wrote:

Sevendeadly wrote:

I so, so, so don't miss house-sharing.

This is why I'm on the verge of buying a flat! I'm just getting prepared in case there's a delay.

Nice, drop the bomb in there then run away to your own place

Ben6899

I really appreciate everyone's advice, thanks chaps.

Yes, I can't wait until we find our own flat - we currently have the highest offer on a nice place in Kentish Town and I'm hoping the seller realises that's as high as it will get... she's currently - fairly enough - holding out for something nearer her asking price!

Once we're out, he can do what the hell he likes with the heating.

VTech

Rolf F wrote:

VTech wrote:

A very nice girl on the face of it was asked to pay more electricity as she was studying from home in a house share. She was with 3 other girls and everything seemed fine at first. She agreed to pay more and a few months later left. Soon after a claim came in for forceful ejection from a property. I'm. It sure of the exact wording but she made out that she was forced out of the home. She ended up with just under £10,000 in compensation.

That's not the whole story is it? It reads like a headline from an article in the Daily Mail. The sort of thing deliberately written to get the foolish to start cursing the nanny state, political correctness gone mad, Brussels etc which, when you actually look at the facts, turns out to be entirely reasonable.

I couldn't possibly put the whole story here as this is simply a forum thread but your reply takes away the meaning of my post which was full of excellent advice and a lesson that is sorely learnt when faced with similar issues.
Anyone can claim that they were hounded out of a property and the wording within the legal requirement is that the tenant is allowed a reasonable and peaceful occupancy of the property and if that can at any time be deemed as broken then the tenant can make a lawful claim.

Are you honestly suggesting that there is no such thing as "dodgy claims" these days ? would you suggest that its simply a "nanny state" ? This has nothing to do with a nanny state, its not a state issue, its a legal issue where someone can complain if they feel harassed and my advice was to tread carefully, I have also learnt the hard way, I used facts for an eviction and although I won, I lost a huge amount of money in legal fees because thats the way the law works.

The girl in question claimed that she felt forced out of the home by the other girls because in her evidence, she said they knew she worked from home when she moved in so why did they charge her more AFTER she moved in, she had a point. They did know before she moved in and she was a decent tenant, always paying on time but that didn't stop her claiming and then being able to claim the removal fees, extra costs and compensation etc etc.

These things happen and if a single post on an internet forum can advise someone to tread carefully it is downright stupid to rubbish that advice, after all, the guy posting may well think that what I have written is rubbish and end up paying the price.

bernithebiker

Ben6899 wrote:

I really appreciate everyone's advice, thanks chaps.

Yes, I can't wait until we find our own flat - we currently have the highest offer on a nice place in Kentish Town and I'm hoping the seller realises that's as high as it will get... she's currently - fairly enough - holding out for something nearer her asking price!

Once we're out, he can do what the hell he likes with the heating.

Hang in there, I think she'll come down. London house prices look damn toppy to me…...

Ben6899

VTech wrote:

...after all, the guy posting may well think that what I have written is rubbish and end up paying the price.

For the record, I don't think what you posted is rubbish.

Ben6899

bernithebiker wrote:

Ben6899 wrote:

I really appreciate everyone's advice, thanks chaps.

Yes, I can't wait until we find our own flat - we currently have the highest offer on a nice place in Kentish Town and I'm hoping the seller realises that's as high as it will get... she's currently - fairly enough - holding out for something nearer her asking price!

Once we're out, he can do what the hell he likes with the heating.

Hang in there, I think she'll come down. London house prices look damn toppy to me…...

Yeh it's a bit mental, to say the least!

secretsam

Sevendeadly wrote:

I so, so, so don't miss house-sharing.

+1 - although it's a great way to meet new people

rolf_f

VTech wrote:

Rolf F wrote:

VTech wrote:

A very nice girl on the face of it was asked to pay more electricity as she was studying from home in a house share. She was with 3 other girls and everything seemed fine at first. She agreed to pay more and a few months later left. Soon after a claim came in for forceful ejection from a property. I'm. It sure of the exact wording but she made out that she was forced out of the home. She ended up with just under £10,000 in compensation.

That's not the whole story is it? It reads like a headline from an article in the Daily Mail. The sort of thing deliberately written to get the foolish to start cursing the nanny state, political correctness gone mad, Brussels etc which, when you actually look at the facts, turns out to be entirely reasonable.

I couldn't possibly put the whole story here as this is simply a forum thread but your reply takes away the meaning of my post which was full of excellent advice and a lesson that is sorely learnt when faced with similar issues.
Anyone can claim that they were hounded out of a property and the wording within the legal requirement is that the tenant is allowed a reasonable and peaceful occupancy of the property and if that can at any time be deemed as broken then the tenant can make a lawful claim.

Are you honestly suggesting that there is no such thing as "dodgy claims" these days ? would you suggest that its simply a "nanny state" ? This has nothing to do with a nanny state, its not a state issue, its a legal issue where someone can complain if they feel harassed and my advice was to tread carefully, I have also learnt the hard way, I used facts for an eviction and although I won, I lost a huge amount of money in legal fees because thats the way the law works.

The girl in question claimed that she felt forced out of the home by the other girls because in her evidence, she said they knew she worked from home when she moved in so why did they charge her more AFTER she moved in, she had a point. They did know before she moved in and she was a decent tenant, always paying on time but that didn't stop her claiming and then being able to claim the removal fees, extra costs and compensation etc etc.

These things happen and if a single post on an internet forum can advise someone to tread carefully it is downright stupid to rubbish that advice, after all, the guy posting may well think that what I have written is rubbish and end up paying the price.

Crikey - you read an awful lot in to my post - particularly when you confirm that you didn't post the whole story to start with which was really all I said.

RideOnTime

t4tomo wrote:

alternatively kill him and burn him to heat the house in the evenings?

I have no sympathy for non jumper wearing shiverers

Burning wood might be more effective.. no matter

bobbygloss

What happens if the housemate goes on holiday for a week, and then claims that he doesn't have to pay any shared bills for that week?
You could be setting a precedent that leads to people counting how often you use the kettle.